USD's Title as Best Team in the Generally Weak Conference Secured

[NoVaJack]

Re: USD's Title as Best Team in the Dakotas Secured

Congratulations on your moral victory against Cornell.

We played Purdue tough. I'd say that's enough to get us at least a 13 seed. Anybody with me on that?

[filbert]

Re: USD's Title as Best Team in the Dakotas Secured

I sure hate using logic because it does fall on deaf ears but that great mid level Summit team NDSU lost to a team that finished 5-7 in a conference that USD won at 11-1.

I hate using the Cornell reasoning but USD played them down to the wire and it's fair to say that Cornell is as good, but probably better than anyone in the Summit this year.

Based on fair reasoning USD probably finishes somewhere around 10-8 in the Summit. I really think that is a more than reasonable prediction.

Ah, there's your trouble. You seem to think that this muddled mess of assertions is somehow "reasoning."

Perhaps you can explain your "reasoning" to Jeff Sagarin or Ken Pomeroy. I've helpfully provided their e-mail addresses here, along with the Sagarin and Pomeroy ratings as of today for the combined Summit League and Great West Conference. Facts are stubborn things. The fact is that you'd be lucky to finish .500 in the Summit League, but your obscenely weak schedule has hidden this inconvenient fact from your seemingly dismal powers of observation:

Jeff Sagarin (jsagarin@attglobal.net)
102 IUPUI = 76.30 Summit
104 Oakland-Mich. = 76.10 Summit
138 Oral Roberts = 74.08 Summit
222 South Dakota State = 67.65 Summit
227 IPFW = 67.37 Summit
230 South Dakota = 66.90 Ind/GWC
251 North Dakota State = 65.24 Summit
277 Western Illinois = 63.23 Summit
287 UMKC = 62.66 Summit
318 Centenary = 58.97 Summit
322 Southern Utah = 58.53 Summit
326 Utah Valley = 57.31 Ind/GWC
327 Houston Baptist = 57.21 Ind/GWC
336 Texas-Pan American = 55.48 Ind/GWC
341 North Dakota = 54.11 Ind/GWC
342 NJIT(New Jersey Tech) = 53.63 Ind/GWC
343 Chicago State = 53.56 Ind/GWC


Ken Pomeroy (ratings@kenpom.com)
(Sorted by Pomeroy rating--the last number listed)
IUPUI (Summit) 23-9 15-3 15-3 .6903
Oral Roberts (Summit) 20-12 13-5 13-5 .5992
Oakland (Summit) 24-8 17-1 17-1 .5476
South Dakota St. (Summit) 14-16 10-8 10-8 .3635
IUPU Fort Wayne (Summit) 16-14 9-9 9-9 .3228
North Dakota St. (Summit) 11-18 8-10 8-10 .2841
South Dakota (GWC) 20-9 11-1 11-1 .2655
Western Illinois (Summit) 13-17 6-12 6-12 .2033
Missouri Kansas City (Summit) 12-18 6-12 6-12 .1514
Centenary (Summit) 8-21 3-15 3-15 .0868
Houston Baptist (GWC) 10-20 9-3 9-3 .0799
Utah Valley (GWC) 12-17 5-7 5-7 .0770
Southern Utah (Summit) 7-22 3-15 3-15 .0744
North Dakota (GWC) 8-22 5-7 5-7 .0390
Texas Pan American (GWC) 5-26 4-8 4-8 .0680
NJ Inst of Technology (GWC) 9-20 4-8 4-8 .0402
Chicago St. (GWC) 9-22 4-8 4-8 .0363

From this, it looks to me like USD would most likely finish 8-10 or 7-11 in the Summit League, maybe as high as 9-9, maybe as low as 6-12. But two separate, highly respected computer analyses indicate that USD would struggle to gain a fingernailhold of the upper division of the Summit League. Sorry, Charlie.

This was probably a bit too cerebral for you, so I'll attempt to reason on your level: You got beat by Cornell. We got beat by Purdue. Therefore, by this "reasoning" we're better than you are because we played a close game to a higher rated team than you did. I don't quite completely understand this thought process, so please let me know if I've failed to properly represent your perverse and erroneous thought processes here.

You're wrong. You're deluded. You're seeing the world through vermillion-and-cream colored glasses.

You're biased. You're being arrogant. And in your world, that's the worst sin of all, now isn't it? You've certainly accused SDSU fans of it often enough.

We are what we are, this year. You aren't what you seem to be. We deserve our record. You're not as good as yours. Those are the facts, jack.

God, it's fun to have you around, C_F. You're the catnip-scented twine ball for us little kittens to bat around . . .

[jacksfaninne]

Re: USD's Title as Best Team in the Dakotas Secured

Still got football envy, huh CF?

[FargoBison]

Re: USD's Title as Best Team in the Dakotas Secured

I sure hate using logic because it does fall on deaf ears but that great mid level Summit team NDSU lost to a team that finished 5-7 in a conference that USD won at 11-1.

I hate using the Cornell reasoning but USD played them down to the wire and it's fair to say that Cornell is as good, but probably better than anyone in the Summit this year.

Based on fair reasoning USD probably finishes somewhere around 10-8 in the Summit. I really think that is a more than reasonable prediction.

Logic? NDSU did lose at Utah Valley but didn't USD lose at UVU as well? If you want reason and logic refer to Filbert's post.

[darkerstill]

Re: USD's Title as Best Team in the Dakotas Secured

Ah, there's your trouble. You seem to think that this muddled mess of assertions is somehow "reasoning."

Perhaps you can explain your "reasoning" to Jeff Sagarin or Ken Pomeroy. I've helpfully provided their e-mail addresses here, along with the Sagarin and Pomeroy ratings as of today for the combined Summit League and Great West Conference. Facts are stubborn things. The fact is that you'd be lucky to finish .500 in the Summit League, but your obscenely weak schedule has hidden this inconvenient fact from your seemingly dismal powers of observation:

Jeff Sagarin (jsagarin@attglobal.net)
102 IUPUI = 76.30 Summit
104 Oakland-Mich. = 76.10 Summit
138 Oral Roberts = 74.08 Summit
222 South Dakota State = 67.65 Summit
227 IPFW = 67.37 Summit
230 South Dakota = 66.90 Ind/GWC
251 North Dakota State = 65.24 Summit
277 Western Illinois = 63.23 Summit
287 UMKC = 62.66 Summit
318 Centenary = 58.97 Summit
322 Southern Utah = 58.53 Summit
326 Utah Valley = 57.31 Ind/GWC
327 Houston Baptist = 57.21 Ind/GWC
336 Texas-Pan American = 55.48 Ind/GWC
341 North Dakota = 54.11 Ind/GWC
342 NJIT(New Jersey Tech) = 53.63 Ind/GWC
343 Chicago State = 53.56 Ind/GWC


Ken Pomeroy (ratings@kenpom.com)
(Sorted by Pomeroy rating--the last number listed)
IUPUI (Summit) 23-9 15-3 15-3 .6903
Oral Roberts (Summit) 20-12 13-5 13-5 .5992
Oakland (Summit) 24-8 17-1 17-1 .5476
South Dakota St. (Summit) 14-16 10-8 10-8 .3635
IUPU Fort Wayne (Summit) 16-14 9-9 9-9 .3228
North Dakota St. (Summit) 11-18 8-10 8-10 .2841
South Dakota (GWC) 20-9 11-1 11-1 .2655
Western Illinois (Summit) 13-17 6-12 6-12 .2033
Missouri Kansas City (Summit) 12-18 6-12 6-12 .1514
Centenary (Summit) 8-21 3-15 3-15 .0868
Houston Baptist (GWC) 10-20 9-3 9-3 .0799
Utah Valley (GWC) 12-17 5-7 5-7 .0770
Southern Utah (Summit) 7-22 3-15 3-15 .0744
North Dakota (GWC) 8-22 5-7 5-7 .0390
Texas Pan American (GWC) 5-26 4-8 4-8 .0680
NJ Inst of Technology (GWC) 9-20 4-8 4-8 .0402
Chicago St. (GWC) 9-22 4-8 4-8 .0363

From this, it looks to me like USD would most likely finish 8-10 or 7-11 in the Summit League, maybe as high as 9-9, maybe as low as 6-12. But two separate, highly respected computer analyses indicate that USD would struggle to gain a fingernailhold of the upper division of the Summit League. Sorry, Charlie.

This was probably a bit too cerebral for you, so I'll attempt to reason on your level: You got beat by Cornell. We got beat by Purdue. Therefore, by this "reasoning" we're better than you are because we played a close game to a higher rated team than you did. I don't quite completely understand this thought process, so please let me know if I've failed to properly represent your perverse and erroneous thought processes here.

You're wrong. You're deluded. You're seeing the world through vermillion-and-cream colored glasses.

You're biased. You're being arrogant. And in your world, that's the worst sin of all, now isn't it? You've certainly accused SDSU fans of it often enough.

We are what we are, this year. You aren't what you seem to be. We deserve our record. You're not as good as yours. Those are the facts, jack.

God, it's fun to have you around, C_F. You're the catnip-scented twine ball for us little kittens to bat around . . .

Now that's all she wrote folks. That's a Coyote Fan beat down there. Well put.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: USD's Title as Best Team in the Dakotas Secured

Congratulations on your moral victory against Cornell.

I don't use Cornell as a moral victory but instead an example to dispute the notion that the upper teams in the Summit would just walk all over USD. USD doesn't need moral victories right now because they will glady settle for another banner hanging in the rafters.

[filbert]

Re: USD's Title as Best Team in the Dakotas Secured

I don't use Cornell as a moral victory but instead an example to dispute the notion that the upper teams in the Summit would just walk all over USD. USD doesn't need moral victories right now because they will glady settle for another banner hanging in the rafters.

That's all you got?

That's all?

You start this sorry excuse for a smack thread with all kinds of chest puffing, and then you bring this weak stuff?

Far be it for me to declare a thread winner here, but I'll let the judgments of darkerstill and FargoBison stand, I think . . .

[NorCalJack]

Re: USD's Title as Best Team in the Dakotas Secured

Ah, there's your trouble. You seem to think that this muddled mess of assertions is somehow "reasoning."

Perhaps you can explain your "reasoning" to Jeff Sagarin or Ken Pomeroy. I've helpfully provided their e-mail addresses here, along with the Sagarin and Pomeroy ratings as of today for the combined Summit League and Great West Conference. Facts are stubborn things. The fact is that you'd be lucky to finish .500 in the Summit League, but your obscenely weak schedule has hidden this inconvenient fact from your seemingly dismal powers of observation:

Jeff Sagarin (jsagarin@attglobal.net)
102 IUPUI = 76.30 Summit
104 Oakland-Mich. = 76.10 Summit
138 Oral Roberts = 74.08 Summit
222 South Dakota State = 67.65 Summit
227 IPFW = 67.37 Summit
230 South Dakota = 66.90 Ind/GWC
251 North Dakota State = 65.24 Summit
277 Western Illinois = 63.23 Summit
287 UMKC = 62.66 Summit
318 Centenary = 58.97 Summit
322 Southern Utah = 58.53 Summit
326 Utah Valley = 57.31 Ind/GWC
327 Houston Baptist = 57.21 Ind/GWC
336 Texas-Pan American = 55.48 Ind/GWC
341 North Dakota = 54.11 Ind/GWC
342 NJIT(New Jersey Tech) = 53.63 Ind/GWC
343 Chicago State = 53.56 Ind/GWC


Ken Pomeroy (ratings@kenpom.com)
(Sorted by Pomeroy rating--the last number listed)
IUPUI (Summit) 23-9 15-3 15-3 .6903
Oral Roberts (Summit) 20-12 13-5 13-5 .5992
Oakland (Summit) 24-8 17-1 17-1 .5476
South Dakota St. (Summit) 14-16 10-8 10-8 .3635
IUPU Fort Wayne (Summit) 16-14 9-9 9-9 .3228
North Dakota St. (Summit) 11-18 8-10 8-10 .2841
South Dakota (GWC) 20-9 11-1 11-1 .2655
Western Illinois (Summit) 13-17 6-12 6-12 .2033
Missouri Kansas City (Summit) 12-18 6-12 6-12 .1514
Centenary (Summit) 8-21 3-15 3-15 .0868
Houston Baptist (GWC) 10-20 9-3 9-3 .0799
Utah Valley (GWC) 12-17 5-7 5-7 .0770
Southern Utah (Summit) 7-22 3-15 3-15 .0744
North Dakota (GWC) 8-22 5-7 5-7 .0390
Texas Pan American (GWC) 5-26 4-8 4-8 .0680
NJ Inst of Technology (GWC) 9-20 4-8 4-8 .0402
Chicago St. (GWC) 9-22 4-8 4-8 .0363

From this, it looks to me like USD would most likely finish 8-10 or 7-11 in the Summit League, maybe as high as 9-9, maybe as low as 6-12. But two separate, highly respected computer analyses indicate that USD would struggle to gain a fingernailhold of the upper division of the Summit League. Sorry, Charlie.

This was probably a bit too cerebral for you, so I'll attempt to reason on your level: You got beat by Cornell. We got beat by Purdue. Therefore, by this "reasoning" we're better than you are because we played a close game to a higher rated team than you did. I don't quite completely understand this thought process, so please let me know if I've failed to properly represent your perverse and erroneous thought processes here.

You're wrong. You're deluded. You're seeing the world through vermillion-and-cream colored glasses.

You're biased. You're being arrogant. And in your world, that's the worst sin of all, now isn't it? You've certainly accused SDSU fans of it often enough.

We are what we are, this year. You aren't what you seem to be. We deserve our record. You're not as good as yours. Those are the facts, jack.

God, it's fun to have you around, C_F. You're the catnip-scented twine ball for us little kittens to bat around . . .

The real telling tale with those rankings is that Centenary would finish 2nd in the Great West Conference. That stat alone should tell you what a poor basketball conference that league is.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: USD's Title as Best Team in the Dakotas Secured

I don't use Cornell as a moral victory but instead an example to dispute the notion that the upper teams in the Summit would just walk all over USD. USD doesn't need moral victories right now because they will glady settle for another banner hanging in the rafters.

Please, please don't tell me they are going to hang a "Great West Basketball Conference Champions" Banner in the beloved Dakotadome. That is a laugher.

[zooropa]

Re: USD's Title as Best Team in the Dakotas Secured

they will glady settle for another banner hanging in the rafters.

South Dakota State won over a hundred and twenty championships in the NCC. They don't have any banners hanging anywhere in Frost Arena, or at Coughlin Alumni Stadium. Know why?

The only history that matters is the history you make today.

[KUlawJack]

Re: USD's Title as Best Team in the Dakotas Secured

Please, please don't tell me they are going to hang a "Great West Basketball Conference Champions" Banner in the beloved Dakotadome. That is a laugher.

This was a good one. It made me laugh.

[mango4]

Re: USD's Title as Best Team in the Dakotas Secured

Please, please don't tell me they are going to hang a "Great West Basketball Conference Champions" Banner in the beloved Dakotadome. That is a laugher.

I've heard they are also getting rings to celebrate their conference title...

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: USD's Title as Best Team in the Dakotas Secured

Just belittle it all you want but in year 2 USD has a much greater accomplishment under their belts than SDSU has even been within distance of sniffing in mens basketball. Sure it's the Great West and sure it's not the best conference out there but the excuse was always "lets see what happens when USD plays actual D 1 games" Well here we are D1 games it is (which is actually less of a big deal to me than it was to most Jacks fans when USD was still in D2) and D1 games were won.

I am just holding the particular SDSU fans (and you know who you are whether you admit it or not) to their end of the bargain that claimed USD would fail miserably in D1. Let the truth be told USD is succeeding pretty well if I must say myself.

Did SDSU celebrate when they won the Great West Alliance in football when there were only 5 teams. I believe that would be affirmative. Is there any type of acknowledgement of that either at Coughlin Alumni or Frost?

Going back along ways it's my opinion that a conference is not a true conference until it gets to 6 teams. I think SDSU should have been proud of winning their championship eventhough they had 3 home games and only 1 roadie. Why would you not want to celebrate those accomplishments.

USD cut down the nets and that is exactly what they should have done. If USD gets rings for the team that is a great idea. If they hang a banner that is a great idea. They will only be in that conference for 2 years so it's a commodity to them to get one of the titles. I would have been much more disappointed if USD hadn't recognized the accomplishment. I am sure if the Jacks were in a similar postion and won a conference I am sure there wouldn't be many Jacks fans booing at Frost Arena that they cut down the nets. I am sure everyone would be extatic.

SDSU has done some good things in football and womens basketball and those accomplishment should be celebrated. USD has their first really nice accomplishment in the transition for a major sports team. It should be celebrated.

[mango4]

Re: USD's Title as Best Team in the Dakotas Secured

Just belittle it all you want but in year 2 USD has a much greater accomplishment under their belts than SDSU has even been within distance of sniffing in mens basketball. Sure it's the Great West and sure it's not the best conference out there but the excuse was always "lets see what happens when USD plays actual D 1 games" Well here we are D1 games it is (which is actually less of a big deal to me than it was to most Jacks fans when USD was still in D2) and D1 games were won.

I am just holding the particular SDSU fans (and you know who you are whether you admit it or not) to their end of the bargain that claimed USD would fail miserably in D1. Let the truth be told USD is succeeding pretty well if I must say myself.

Did SDSU celebrate when they won the Great West Alliance in football when there were only 5 teams. I believe that would be affirmative. Is there any type of acknowledgement of that either at Coughlin Alumni or Frost?

Going back along ways it's my opinion that a conference is not a true conference until it gets to 6 teams. I think SDSU should have been proud of winning their championship eventhough they had 3 home games and only 1 roadie. Why would you not want to celebrate those accomplishments.

USD cut down the nets and that is exactly what they should have done. If USD gets rings for the team that is a great idea. If they hang a banner that is a great idea. They will only be in that conference for 2 years so it's a commodity to them to get one of the titles. I would have been much more disappointed if USD hadn't recognized the accomplishment. I am sure if the Jacks were in a similar postion and won a conference I am sure there wouldn't be many Jacks fans booing at Frost Arena that they cut down the nets. I am sure everyone would be extatic.

SDSU has done some good things in football and womens basketball and those accomplishment should be celebrated. USD has their first really nice accomplishment in the transition for a major sports team. It should be celebrated.

No, no recognition of the Great West title. No rings either

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: USD's Title as Best Team in the Dakotas Secured

South Dakota State won over a hundred and twenty championships in the NCC. They don't have any banners hanging anywhere in Frost Arena, or at Coughlin Alumni Stadium. Know why?

The only history that matters is the history you make today.

That is definately short sited. Any program should be proud of their history especially the successes. USD had one large banner hanging that just showed the years they won a particular NCC title. The only banners hanging in the dome right now are the national championship banners that they have. Since the conference situation between the Great West and the Summit is constantly changing their will have to be some sort of banner hanging for Great West titles whether that is one banner for one title or a banner for any title won in the conference. I imagine with the track and field titles that USD may opt for one banner with the different sports listed with the years also included.