USD-I???

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: USD-I???

SDSU plays a tougher schedule than USD but they also have a worse record to show for it. It's not the schedule that determines team strength but how a team plays the schedule they are given that shows how strong they are. Morningside and Augustana have played a tough schedule for years but what has that done for their program. It certainly didn't make them winning programs. If they were made better automatically by just who they played then why didn't Morningside ever have success? If the title of D1 makes a program suddenly better because of it then how does that explain your basketball team. They have D2 talent but suddenly are losing games at home to the caliber of teams that they would have never lost against in the past.

When USD barely beat Wisconsin LaCrosse Meierkort had only coached a couple of game at the U. I saw all the home games that yeart and LaCrosse impressed me more that day than any of the other NCC teams that came into the dome that year. Most SDSU fans like to conveniently bring up the losses and not so great wins. For whatever reason no matter how bad or good USD plays against them does not explain USD's propensity to play well against the top flight NCC teams. If you are going to bring up the games like LaCross and Mines then you also have to compare that to the impressive wins and if not your not looking at the entire picture as an objective thinker.

If you are going to make the anti argument against the U and how they couldn't hold a candle to that suddenly great SDSU program at least be accurate and fair to both sides. It is well known that SDSU fans are some of the biggest homer fans around. It's good to route for the home team but I sure hope you don't place bets based on your loyalty. It would get you broke in a hurry.

[Haldersham]

Re: USD-I???

SDSU plays a tougher schedule than USD but they also have a worse record to show for it.  It's not the schedule that determines team strength but how a team plays the schedule they are given that shows how strong they are.  Morningside and Augustana have played a tough schedule for years but what has that done for their program.  It certainly didn't make them winning programs.  If they were made better automatically by just who they played then why didn't Morningside ever have success?  If the title of D1 makes a program suddenly better because of it then how does that explain your basketball team.  They have D2 talent but suddenly are losing games at home to the caliber of teams that they would have never lost against in the past.  

When USD barely beat Wisconsin LaCrosse Meierkort had only coached a couple of game at the U.  I saw all the home games that yeart and LaCrosse impressed me more that day than any of the other NCC teams that came into the dome that year.  Most SDSU fans like to conveniently bring up the losses and not so great wins.  For whatever reason no matter how bad or good USD plays against them does not explain USD's propensity to play well against the top flight NCC teams.  If you are going to bring up the games like LaCross and Mines then you also have to compare that to the impressive wins and if not your not looking at the entire picture as an objective thinker.  

If you are going to make the anti argument against the U and how they couldn't hold a candle to that suddenly great SDSU program at least be accurate and fair to both sides.  It is well known that SDSU fans are some of the biggest homer fans around.  It's good to route for the home team but I sure hope you don't place bets based on your loyalty.  It would get you broke in a hurry.  

Kettle meet pot.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: USD-I???

Nothing in the program has changed. An additional 20+ scholarships, recruiting better athletes, playing tougher competition on a regular basis. Since most of the independent ranking services put SDSU in the middle of 1-AA, it sounds as though you believe USD is a mid-level 1-AA program, you said it is good as SDSU.

In the immortal words of Mike & Mike, man up and answer the question. If USD moves up will it change how and who it recruits? ;D ;D

[89rabbit]

Re: USD-I???

You are ignorant and you are misrepresenting my opinons and what I have said.  I never said USD was a top level D1AA program so why don't you just stick to the facts and stop trying to put words in my mouth that were never said and are not true.    

The facts are that USD isn't even a top level D-II team, after all the facts are you haven't been to the playoff since 1985 and without ever seeing a I-AA game in person you want to declare your team capable of competing when the facts don't support your asinine assumption. Talk about ignorant.

I simply have a hard time accepting that SDSU has improved more than USD has in the past couple of years. SDSU hasn't had anything in their program really change. USD has had alot change.

You may have a hard time accepting facts but you asked for them so here goes. What USD has done in the past few years is hired a new coach and made their D-II schedule a whole lot easier. What SDSU has done is move up a Division and added a whole lot of scholarships. I know you went to USD, but you can count right? You do understand that 50 scholarships if greater then 36 right? I know you don't want to admit that you are inferior, but sometimes the facts hurt. USD is a D-II school and SDSU is a D-I school those are the facts.


Go State!

[89rabbit]

Re: USD-I???

 Most SDSU fans like to conveniently bring up the losses and not so great wins.  For whatever reason no matter how bad or good USD plays against them does not explain USD's propensity to play well against the top flight NCC teams.  If you are going to bring up the games like LaCross and Mines then you also have to compare that to the impressive wins and if not your not looking at the entire picture as an objective thinker.  

 

Coyote_Fan,

It is clear that you are very proud of your wins over UNO and UND and I say congrats to you.  Those were fine wins against good teams in your Division.  I am not sure though how from those wins alone you can draw the conclusion that USD would be competitive against I-AA schools.  You made the assertion that:

[quote author=Coyote_Fan link=1152460990/0#8 date=1152578536]  The difference between D2 and D1AA football is not that great.  The top 10 teams of D2 are probably better than at least half the D1AA schools.  USD was either in the top 10 or on the cusp of it.    

yet the facts don't bare you out.  To the best of my recollection UND, UNO, and USD didn't have any I-AA on their schedule.  However, a couple of teams that the Coyotes played did venture into the waters of the I-AA lake.  

Minnesota-Duluth 56 - USD 43

Northern Iowa 49 - Minnesota-Duluth 14

USD 44 - Colorado Mines 41 - OT

Northern Colorado 52 - Colorado Mines 31

Now Northern Iowa was a beast last year in I-AA, but Northern Colorado would definitely be considered bottom half of I-AA last year (with a 4-7 record and No wins in the Great West Football Conference) and they smoked a team that USD had to beat in OT.  Unless you can show me some statistical proof, I just have a hard time buying your argument that "The difference between D2 and D1AA football is not that great".  Common sense tells us that there has to be a difference based on scholarship levels only.  After all there is a greater difference between the scholarship max from D-II to I-AA then there is between I-AA and I-A.  

I'm afraid that USD is many years away from having much of a chance at upsetting the Jackrabbits.  However, I encourage you to put pressure on your University.  A match up with your Coyotes would be an early season highlight and a nice warm up game for SDSU.  I would love to see your boys make a trip up to Brookings for a guarantee game.  Best of luck to your team this coming season.


Just for the record .  .  .


SDSU 30 - UNC 14


Go State!  


I-AA schools in bold[/quote]


I gave you your due, and yet you can't even bring yourself to admit that SDSU has gotten better by vertue of adding scholarships and moving up to D-I.  You expound your opinions even though you have never seen a I-AA game or seen the Jackrabbits play since 2003.  I guess we now know who the objective thinker is.    8-)


Go State!  

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: USD-I???




Very well put 89Rabbit!  Sometimes the haters can't see past the hatred!  

SUPERBUNNY

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: USD-I???

Coyote Fan,
Before I start, I just want to let you know that i do think USD's football team has made great strides over the past few years and have went from a lower level D2 team to a mid level D2 team.  I just wanted to make sure to "give you your props" as that is obviously what you are looking for.  Let me give you one other hint too, in the future if you want to discuss USD's athletic teams and expect to get "your props", there might be a better venue than the SDSU fan board.  Second, don't paint all SDSU fans on this board in one brush, I don't think I have ever heard any SDSU fan say that our university will ever be in the Big Ten or see our team winning a D1AA championship anytime soon, but you went ahead and put those words in our mouth.  There are a majority of very reasonable posters on this board who can and oftentimes do criticize our university and athletic dept. for aspects we don't agree with.  With that said, we are all fanatics, and will have legitimate discussions with any outsider to defend the teams we support.

Finally, I sure hope you weren't law trained by our state's law school at USD, because your logic and reasoning is weak.  How can you say that USD has improved immensely in two years by just changing coaches and having more wins against a schedule that is half of what it was in the old NCC.  Nevermind the fact that the U hasn't played a decent non-conference opponent in some years.  Yet, you don't think SDSU's team has improved at all even though we have many more scholarships, a new classification to attract better athletes (don't tell me it doesn't matter as we all know that high school kids these days want to show they can play at the top level available, it boosts their already inflated egos), and play stronger competition week in and week out.  You will now argue that, "SDSU's football record of 6-5 hasn't changed over the past ten years thus our team hasn't improved at all", after all, you use this argument in every post on every board you participate on.  Have you ever thought that maybe the difference in competition has masked a couple more wins that the present SDSU team would have had the past couple years if they were still in the old NCC. In order to see that you would have to see that the possibility for the SDSU football team to improve is there or has happened, and you just can't do that.

Again, you will probably not agree with me, and that is your choice.  If you want to argue the fact that the two teams are equal, than email Mr. Nielsen and tell him to contact Rob Peterson in our AD dept and inquire about our open weekend in the 2007 season.  Yes you will have to come to Brookings, just like you would expect USF to come to Vermillion if they decided to play you.  We can than play the game on the field and you will finally be able to see a D1AA team in person.  BTW, have you ever seen a D1AA football game or an SDSU game since we left D2, you may want to do that before you start declaring there is no difference in the divisions.  Or if your university does decide that D1AA is the right division for you (though with the way you think why not just stay in D2, it's just as good) we will be happy to start scheduling home and home again starting in 2008 or 2009.  I must say I would be happy to see our rivalry renewed on a more civil level, even though I do enjoy being the only D1 school in South Dakota.  Until then, don't expect anyone to agree with you that our teams are equal, and especially not on OUR fanboard where according to you we only see in yellow and blue.  

[bincitysioux]

Re: USD-I???

Here's a point of view from a neutral observer to the USD-SDSU rivalry/competition. If they played today, I sure as heck hope that SDSU would win. They certainly should with the scholarship advantage. I don't know how many schollies the Jacks offer, but this far into the transition they should have an advantage of about 15 to 20 I would guess.

89 Rabbit made a comment about USD not being an elite DII team and pointed to the fact that USD hasn't made the playoffs since 1985. I don't know the last time that SDSU made the playoffs, but I do know that SDSU has only participated in the playoffs one time in their history, and USD only three times making all the way to the championship game in 1985. Historically, USD has had a far greater impact in Division II football and the NCC than has SDSU. Personally, I think USD is fast becoming one of the powers of DII.

SDSU was always a middle of the pack team in the NCC. So far they have been a middle of the pack team in the GWFC.

[89rabbit]

Re: USD-I???

The question at hand is not whether USD's football team is an improved D-II product.  It is, and I don't think you will get much argument  about that.  However, the question at hand is what factual evidence might someone present in support of the assertion that our friend Coyote_Fan has made that his team with 36 scholarships is a match for the upper half of I-AA and it's 63 scholarship limit (now before Coyote_Fan claims that I am putting words in his mouth he feels his team is equal, or better, then SDSU and SDSU is factually in the upper half of I-AA).

bincitysioux, you seem to answer this question in the first paragraph.  The rest of your posts speaks to an issue that if it exists at all is mere window dressing.  


Go State!  



P.S. For the record the Jackrabbits only appearence in the D-II football playoffs took place in 1979.  We lost to a team that has also left the ranks of D-II for D-I, Youngstown State.  Also for the record, Since 1991 (when Mike Daly took over from Wayne Haensel) SDSU is 95-66.