Hey USD!

[mitchellrabbit]

Re: Hey USD!

I don't know what is funnier, watching SDSU fans compare scores to see who would win between USD and SDSU, after many of you in the past have said that you can't compare scores to see who is better, or the fact that you are comparing scores from a home game of yours and a road game of USD's.  I don't mind comparing scores, but I at least think it has to be an accurate comparison.  Had Central Arkansas beat USD in the Dome then I would be darn impressed.  USD is obviously a much better home team. There is no way USD would lose to a DIII team at home.
As long as we are comparing scores and things of that nature, I have a few things I would like to point out.  Central Washington is 1-3 vs. the NCC and 1-0 vs. the Big Sky (you know, the conference that SDSU wanted to get into.)  I guess you could make a good argument that the NCC is better than the Big Sky. I bet Central Washington wishes they were in the Big Sky right now.  Apparantly they have a much easier time winning in the Big Sky than they do in the NCC.
UND went down to Northern Iowa and showed them who is boss, the same Northern Iowa team that took it to SDSU.  However, UND found things to be a little tougher when they tried to visit UNO this weekend.  Dale Lennon said that UNO is the best team they played this year, and that includes Northern Iowa.  By comparing scores it appears that UNO is clearly better than SDSU.  With that being the case, I'm intrested to see how the UNO v. USD game goes.  I'm sure UNO will be looking for revenge after USD beat them by over 50 points last year.

i think it was the USD fans who said they could kick SDSU's butt after they got beat by Lacrosse. which is the same as score comparison. and to say that USD would "never" get beat at home by a D111 team is funny too. how do you know? until it happens, you dont know. its all speculation. i dont believe you can do score comparison when deciding whos gonna beat who in football. theres too many other factors involved. like the weather, rivalries, or whos at home. in the gambling world, how many points does the home team get? 3 maybe. it still doesnt mean that SDSU would beat USD by 30 something. and i could care less about what "could" happen if USD and SDSU played. nobody knows until its actually played.

[bisonbacker]

Re: Hey USD!

There is no doubt that D1AA as a whole is better than D2.  No one is going to argue that point.  That does not mean that every D1AA team is better than every D2 team.  No one is going to argue that point.  I understand that a D1AA roster is generally deeper, faster, etc.  BUT, and here is the big BUT it doesn't apply in all cases.  USD is going through some big problems right now on offense.  Those problems arose during each of the last 3 games.  I am not going to get into each problem one by one right now (as I wrote that out on the Coyote message board).  We just happened to play Central Arkansas at a bad time for us.  Our offense is moving the ball ok but they are not cashing in right now.  They are a shell of what it was last year.  Too many differening factors.  O-Coordinator gone, best receiver gone, quarterback gone.  We have gone through alot of change and are rotating QB's which is not helping.  I don't mean to make excuses but I am just telling it like it is.  USD's offense is really faltering right now.  The Yotes put up as many yards on UCA as they did the D2 teams they faced.  They stopped them about as well too.  It's kinda of funny how so many Jacks fans get stuck on the division affiliation thing.  You are D1AA so is Central Arkansas.  In reality Central Arkansas is not much more than a good D2 playoff program.  They may have the full alotment of schollies but I am sure many of those are moreso filler scholarships.  I am sure many of them are for underclassmen or transfer students but I am sure those extra scholarships are being stretched out a bit thin.  Meaning that some of the players that are getting the scholarships are not making the kinds of contributions that an established D1AA program has.  UCA is another case in point of how the upper echelon D2 programs can move up to D1 and be successfully right away.  

USD eventhough they have struggled for the past 3 weeks is in the upper echelon of D2 football.  They are in the classification of a program that if they move up is likely to have moderate success pretty much right away.  Our program is in as good or better shape as far as success as SDSU was at the time they moved up.

SDSU is always a solid team but that is as far as it goes.  Nearly every year the Jacks will do one of two things.  They either start really slow and then finish really strong or they start really strong and fall apart and finish flat.  It usally equates to alot of 6-5 or 7-4 seasons.  I am sure many of you wish that they could just put together one really spectacular year and finish 10-1 or 9-2.  What you are doing in D1AA is exactly what you were doing in D2 in the prior years before you left.

I kinda of have a question I would like many of you to answer.  Why do you think that so many of the teams that have recently moved up to D1AA have had moderate to very good success either in year 1, 2 or 3 after the transition?  Why is it that so many programs seem to be able to find their legs so quickly at the next level? Look at NDSU. By all rights they should probably be a top 5 team in D1AA with the way they have started the year. At the time NDSU left, UND was the premier NCC program for the majority of the prior 5-10 years.  They weren't heads and shoulders better than anyone else but they would have to be considered the best NCC program over that span.  At least the most consistant.  Has UND suddenly fallen off the map for being an excellent football program since SDSU, NDSU and UNC left?  I don't think UND majically became a bad team.  Was the NCC weakened, of course it was.  That does not mean that the top 2 or 3 teams in the NCC became inferior to the rest of D2 football.  The top teams in the NCC are still very good football teams.  If I were a Jacks fan instead of bashing the NCC and belittling them it might be a better idea to appreciate where you came from because it was a darn good starting point that allowed the step up to D1AA be alot smaller than what it could have been had the NCC been at the NSIC level of play.  The NCC was good preperation for a step up not a conference that should be frowned upon.  That level of competition was top notch and the teams that have moved up are proving that.  That should be celebrated not diminished.   I think regardless of what happens with the NCC (and now it appears that it will be put to rest soon) what the teams had at a full 10 teams conference was something that can be looked upon very fondly.  That is the way I will look back upon it.  I think all Jacks fans should also have that way of thinking regardless of what your thinking is of USD or other teams.  

When or if USD moves up don't expect them to automatically fail.  If you approach that as a foregone conclusion you might be disappointed.  As a Coyote fan if I expect immediate success I might also be disappointed.  The thing is, you can never lose respect for the possibility of ones own failure or other teams successes.  That does for fans of any team.  It can all go up fast and down even faster.  USD football and SDSU basketball are a great example even if both teams get back to their ways from the recent past.

To answer your question regarding NDSU here you are.
1. We lost a very good coach and transitioned from the triple option to a west coast offense.
2. Coaching again. Bob Babich was a terrible head coach.

[jackmd]

Re: Hey USD!

I don't know what is funnier, watching SDSU fans compare scores to see who would win between USD and SDSU, after many of you in the past have said that you can't compare scores to see who is better, or the fact that you are comparing scores from a home game of yours and a road game of USD's.  I don't mind comparing scores, but I at least think it has to be an accurate comparison.  Had Central Arkansas beat USD in the Dome then I would be darn impressed.  USD is obviously a much better home team. There is no way USD would lose to a DIII team at home.
As long as we are comparing scores and things of that nature, I have a few things I would like to point out.  Central Washington is 1-3 vs. the NCC and 1-0 vs. the Big Sky (you know, the conference that SDSU wanted to get into.)  I guess you could make a good argument that the NCC is better than the Big Sky. I bet Central Washington wishes they were in the Big Sky right now.  Apparantly they have a much easier time winning in the Big Sky than they do in the NCC.
UND went down to Northern Iowa and showed them who is boss, the same Northern Iowa team that took it to SDSU.  However, UND found things to be a little tougher when they tried to visit UNO this weekend.  Dale Lennon said that UNO is the best team they played this year, and that includes Northern Iowa.  By comparing scores it appears that UNO is clearly better than SDSU.  With that being the case, I'm intrested to see how the UNO v. USD game goes.  I'm sure UNO will be looking for revenge after USD beat them by over 50 points last year.

Typical USD arrogance. Its humorous to a point and then its just annoying. I prefer to stick to the facts, head-to-head we have nearly twice as many scholarship players. We handily defeated a team that shut-out the yotes. The yotes have to use their best RB as a kick returner, thats DII football.

USD would crumble against the DI schedule SDSU has faced the last 3 years, SDSU as a DII program would have crumbled just the same.

BLIND ARROGANCE my friends.

[1bunnies]

Re: Hey USD!

I can't understand why USD fans spout off so much anyway. They have not been in the playoffs the last couple of years anyway. They play cupcakes and then think they are a good solid program. If the old NCC was still in place they would have been lucky to have been a 500 ballclub the last two years. Logan was okay, but I still would have rather had a Josh Ranek running backwards than have Logan as my running back.

[thebluehatman]

Re: Hey USD!

I don't know what is funnier, watching SDSU fans compare scores to see who would win between USD and SDSU, after many of you in the past have said that you can't compare scores to see who is better, or the fact that you are comparing scores from a home game of yours and a road game of USD's.  I don't mind comparing scores, but I at least think it has to be an accurate comparison.  Had Central Arkansas beat USD in the Dome then I would be darn impressed.  USD is obviously a much better home team. There is no way USD would lose to a DIII team at home.
As long as we are comparing scores and things of that nature, I have a few things I would like to point out.  Central Washington is 1-3 vs. the NCC and 1-0 vs. the Big Sky (you know, the conference that SDSU wanted to get into.)  I guess you could make a good argument that the NCC is better than the Big Sky. I bet Central Washington wishes they were in the Big Sky right now.  Apparantly they have a much easier time winning in the Big Sky than they do in the NCC.
UND went down to Northern Iowa and showed them who is boss, the same Northern Iowa team that took it to SDSU.  However, UND found things to be a little tougher when they tried to visit UNO this weekend.  Dale Lennon said that UNO is the best team they played this year, and that includes Northern Iowa.  By comparing scores it appears that UNO is clearly better than SDSU.  With that being the case, I'm intrested to see how the UNO v. USD game goes.  I'm sure UNO will be looking for revenge after USD beat them by over 50 points last year.

*yawn* The USD horse doesn't want to die yet.

[JackJD]

Re: Hey USD!

I'm making one of my infrequent visits to the Smack board.  This place is no fun!  However, I think it important that we all keep in mind that comparisons of DII and DIAA talent levels are very dangerous for the USD crowd...they are very likely setting themselves up for a lot of teasing next year or the year after, when they make their entry into DIAA (I'm convinced they're going to make the move).   We should probably save all the comments made by the USD fans on our message board.  Those comments will appear quite humorous in the future.

Go Jacks.

[juice]

Re: Hey USD!



Typical USD arrogance.  Its humorous to a point and then its just annoying.  I prefer to stick to the facts, head-to-head we have nearly twice as many scholarship players.  We handily defeated a team that shut-out the yotes.  The yotes have to use their best RB as a kick returner, thats DII football.

USD would crumble against the DI schedule SDSU has faced the last 3 years, SDSU as a DII program would have crumbled just the same.

BLIND ARROGANCE my friends.[/quote]

How embarrassing for USD that they use their best player to return kicks. I'm sure USC is equally embarrassed about having Reggie Bush return punts last year.

To 1bunnies: You really think USD would have been a .500 team in the NCC last year? How often was USD whipping two playoff teams like they did UND and UNO.

Mitchellrabbit: I would say USD would get more than 3 points at home. While USD was very good last year, I don't think they would have whipped the heck out of UND and UNO like they did in the Dome, maybe you are right though?

Ranek was a very good RB and I don't want to take anything away from him. But Logan is better than J. White, and we all know where J. White ended up---the NFL.

[jacksfaninne]

Re: Hey USD!

and we all know where J. White ended up---the NFL.

And we all know who still has a professional career.

[89rabbit]

Re: Hey USD!

juice,

Let me help you out because you are new.  This whole thread is a response to a certain USD fan in particular (and many USD fans in general) who had been pointing to the UCA games as an oportunity for some sort of evidence that USD's football team was somehow superior to SDSU's.  Please don't think that we are trying to use the UCA game to prove anything, we already knew we were better and don't have anything to prove.  We are just having a laugh at the expense of some Coyote fans who were talking big on how they would be able to "prove" their superiority after they laid the wood to UCA ,and to their credit they thought SDSU would win (although they thought just barely).

Well after USD’s big shut out loss, and SDSU’s big win we just had to laugh.   Sorry about that.   ;D 

The good Doctor put it best in another thread:

.  .  .  If USD had defeated UCA or even made it close, it wouldn't have meant anything in support of your flawed logic.  A divison with 63 scholarships will always be better than a division with 1/2 that number.  That my friend is logical.  If you don't think SDSU's current football program includes an increased number of more talented players than during the DII years, you're naive.  Single games where DII teams defeat DI teams or IAA teams defeat IA teams or NAIA teams beat DII teams or DIII teams beat IAA teams (get it) don't make a lick of difference.

Fact is fact, USD in its current state is a much better football program than it was pre-Meierkort.  That understood, they are not a DI program nor should they be expected to be.  

Bit of advice, take it or leave it, USD better keep the focus on USD.  That goes for admin, coaches, students, fans, etc.. if you keep aspiring to be SDSU you'll always be disappointed.  Each institution is unique and thats what makes the philosophy of higher education in South Dakota work.  .  .  .  

Best of luck to USD with the rest of your season, and have a super D-II day.


Go State, South Dakota's only D-I University!  

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: Hey USD!

Logan will not end up in the pro's unlike J. White. Just like last year when all of USD was talking about how great of a pro career their QB was going to have, there has to be a dose of reality at some point. Logan and their QB from last year were both great DII players. Both are undersized for the next level, though.

[jackmd]

Re: Hey USD!

Logan is not NFL stock, not in my mind. UCA shut him down, that should answer that question. If he gets a shot I wish him the best.

Reminder, USD needs to keep things in focus. Its not about thinking or even believing you can do it, its doing it that counts. Thats that and thats it. You can think has highly of yourself as you want, even when others point out the flaws in your argument. Its getting it done that matters. SDSU is getting it done and I would say the same for USD, where they stand currently. As for the future, time will tell.

[juice]

Re: Hey USD!

Logan will not end up in the pro's unlike J. White.  Just like last year when all of USD was talking about how great of a pro career their QB was going to have, there has to be a dose of reality at some point.  Logan and their QB from last year were both great DII players.  Both are undersized for the next level, though.

Whoever thought Wes was going to make the NFL was quite optimistic. Wes was a great college player, but not someone that I thought would ever play in the NFL.

I'm not trying to argue that DII is better than I-AA. Like the Dr. said, there are a lot more scholarships to give in I-AA, so it is natural that the division as a whole will be better. However, I don't think there is as big of a difference as many will have you believe. There is too much evidence to the contrary. Do I think USD could jump up to I-AA and continue to pile up 10-2 records like they have been, not a chance.

I am glad to see that somebody, I believe the Dr., at least acknowledged that USD is much better than they were in the pre-Meierkort days. Many State fans just act like USD isn't any better than they used to be, the conference is just weaker. While the conference is no doubt weaker, USD is also much better.

[thebluehatman]

Re: Hey USD!

Or their schedule is just weaker... You be the judge.

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: Hey USD!

I have no problem giving USD their props. Their program has really turned itself around despite the level of competition. Last year's offense was a top notch DII offense and had a ton of great weapons. Our team would have had to play well to beat them.

That being said, the problem with most USD fans is they refuse to admit SDSU's team has grown at the same time. They see us as staying put or even getting worse while they continue to be a notch just below '85 Bears status. My entire problem with the USD fans who come on hear bad mouthing SDSU is not that they claim USD is so good, it's that they claim SDSU is so bad. Talk about having your head in the sand.

USD has seen an increase in prowess because of a lot of factors - some due in large parts to SDSU going D1AA. Those factors would be:

1) Coaching (SDSU grad by the way)
2) Weakness of Schedule (weaker NCC included)
3) Greater pool of athletes to recruit (I stated a while ago on how SDSU and NDSU not recruiting the DII athlete has really helped USD recruiting - especially in state recruiting.)
4) Not playing SDSU on a yearly basis (their record against us in the last 20 years is an embarrassment...to SDSU. We should never have lost to them. I'm embarrassed I was only 4-1 against them in my 5 seasons.)

Ok, there is some smack in factor 4, but the other 3 are the main reasons why USD has had a string of recent success. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to put those factors together. There is a direct correlation to SDSU, NDSU and UNC moving up and the sudden surge in USD football success. Similarly, there has been a direct correlation to SDSU football success with our schools movement to D1AA and the added scholarships and focus on the football program that entails. SDSU football is arguably the premier sport for the past 3 seasons. That hasn't been able to be said for years here. That is directly related to moving to D1AA.

In the end, our team is much better than when we were a middle of the pack NCC school. USD is a much better team than when they were a bottom dwelling NCC school. Congrats should go to both of us. I hope you move up to 1AA so we can resume our 2 decade long domination.

[RabbitinTea]

Re: Hey USD!

I agree with MJA, in fact, I've apparently agreed with him for a couple years. I thought the same thing when we moved up...the athletes where there was competition between SDSU and USD will fall to USD with only competition from schools other than SDSU. Case in point, Blake Hojer from DeSmet. In fact, I think he would have like to attend SDSU but didn't get a good enough offer (not sure, could use some clarification).

2 more things...
1.) A previous post stated something to the effect of USD "piling up 10-2 seasons". I'm not sure of the definition of "piling up", but could someone please post USD's record over the last 5 years.
2.) Stefan Logan in the NFL...I think we could all agree this isn't going to happen. Given his academic history, he should probably hit the books and make sure he leaves with a degree. That's the best advice I could give for him in the future.

As far as a rivalry, I'm not sure USD fared much better than Augie over the last 15 years or so. Maybe we should be talking smack with Augie fans.