A kinder, gentler Scott Nagy?

[JackJD]

Re: A kinder, gentler Scott Nagy?

I don't agree with Mr.Augustana's position stated as follows:
"My point is, if you're going to schedule a D2 game, you might as well schedule one that is going to be more advantageous for everyone involved (the aforementioned increased attendance and ticket sales for SDSU, the chance to play a solid D1 program for Augie, a chance to put a game on the schedule that many fans of both teams would enjoy attending, etc.). And if your point is that "there is nothing to be gained," then I would reiterate my point that there's really nothing to be gained by playing Chadron or Wayne either."

Seems to me that to some degree we may compete with Augustana for basketball fans who are not particularly aligned with either program but could be persuaded to become Jackrabbit fans (or Augie fans). The same can't be said for a game with Chadron or Wayne State. We want SDSU playing on the biggest stage possible so that fans with no connection with SDSU get interested and start driving up to Brookings to watch games. I have a good friend who is an Augie grad but holds season tickets for Jackrabbit football and basketball. We want as many fans like that as we can get -- to add to those fans who started with a connection with SDSU as a graduate or perhaps a parent of a student.

So, while it sounds like thinking about what may be an advantage to Augie as well as SDSU is the courteous thing to do , this isn't a service group (e.g. one of the foundational tenets of Rotary International: "Is it fair to all concerned?" -- this isn't the Rotary Club) I think it is bad marketing. We don't want to go out of the way to provide anything advantageous to any school based in Sioux Falls. To do so would, in the long run, have the potential to hit us in the pocketbook.

There's a lot to be gained by playing Chadron or Wayne State. Our coaches use those games to experiment and to play against defenders who they don't practice against every day. We're building the season for the conference race and advancement to the NCAA Tourney.

Post script: Both SDSU and USD are competing for the attention of sports fans in Sioux Falls who may not have a strong allegiance at this point. At the same time, we hope to create new sports fans from those who right now don't think a lot about attending a college football or basketball game. The Sioux Falls market is key to filling the Dana J. Dykhouse Stadium starting next year. I think the continual growth in football attendance since the move to DI shows we're making good headway on growing the fan base. That growth isn't all alums returning to campus. USD wants those same fans but they're 'landlocked' for football (limited opportunity to expand the seating in the DakotaDome) but think about USD's potential to light a fire under some basketball fans when USD's new basketball arena opens. That new arena will be a real gem. I have to believe that's all part of the big picture of why Augie won't be getting an invite to Frost Arena soon (and, if USD knows what's good for USD, I'll bet a six-pack of your favorite beverage that you won't see Augie playing in USD's new arena any time soon).

[JACKGUYII]

Re: A kinder, gentler Scott Nagy?

If we have to play these D2 games whether they are exhibitions or counters I would rather it be Augie or Northern than DSU, DWU or SD School of Mines. Certainly more risk for upset,but better challenge and more opportunity to get opposing fans to Frost. I believe Northern averages more fans than SDSU and Augie is close.

[JackJD]

Re: A kinder, gentler Scott Nagy?

. I believe Northern averages more fans than SDSU and Augie is close.

i don't think that is correct. See, e.g. Post 65 in this thread.

[MrAugustana]

Re: A kinder, gentler Scott Nagy?

I don't agree with Mr.Augustana's position stated as follows:
"My point is, if you're going to schedule a D2 game, you might as well schedule one that is going to be more advantageous for everyone involved (the aforementioned increased attendance and ticket sales for SDSU, the chance to play a solid D1 program for Augie, a chance to put a game on the schedule that many fans of both teams would enjoy attending, etc.). And if your point is that "there is nothing to be gained," then I would reiterate my point that there's really nothing to be gained by playing Chadron or Wayne either."

Seems to me that to some degree we may compete with Augustana for basketball fans who are not particularly aligned with either program but could be persuaded to become Jackrabbit fans (or Augie fans). The same can't be said for a game with Chadron or Wayne State. We want SDSU playing on the biggest stage possible so that fans with no connection with SDSU get interested and start driving up to Brookings to watch games. I have a good friend who is an Augie grad but holds season tickets for Jackrabbit football and basketball. We want as many fans like that as we can get -- to add to those fans who started with a connection with SDSU as a graduate or perhaps a parent of a student.

So, while it sounds like thinking about what may be an advantage to Augie as well as SDSU is the courteous thing to do , this isn't a service group (e.g. one of the foundational tenets of Rotary International: "Is it fair to all concerned?" -- this isn't the Rotary Club) I think it is bad marketing. We don't want to go out of the way to provide anything advantageous to any school based in Sioux Falls. To do so would, in the long run, have the potential to hit us in the pocketbook.

There's a lot to be gained by playing Chadron or Wayne State. Our coaches use those games to experiment and to play against defenders who they don't practice against every day. We're building the season for the conference race and advancement to the NCAA Tourney.

Post script: Both SDSU and USD are competing for the attention of sports fans in Sioux Falls who may not have a strong allegiance at this point. At the same time, we hope to create new sports fans from those who right now don't think a lot about attending a college football or basketball game. The Sioux Falls market is key to filling the Dana J. Dykhouse Stadium starting next year. I think the continual growth in football attendance since the move to DI shows we're making good headway on growing the fan base. That growth isn't all alums returning to campus. USD wants those same fans but they're 'landlocked' for football (limited opportunity to expand the seating in the DakotaDome) but think about USD's potential to light a fire under some basketball fans when USD's new basketball arena opens. That new arena will be a real gem. I have to believe that's all part of the big picture of why Augie won't be getting an invite to Frost Arena soon (and, if USD knows what's good for USD, I'll bet a six-pack of your favorite beverage that you won't see Augie playing in USD's new arena any time soon).

I appreciate you actually taking the time to think through and write a thoughtful and well-worded response to my argument (rather than just going with a modified version of the "Augie's D2 and they suck" route).

I would be a little surprised if your concerns actually came to fruition as fully as you're concerned they could, but I understand your reasoning behind that mindset nonetheless.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond that way.

[MrAugustana]

Re: A kinder, gentler Scott Nagy?

I believe Northern averages more fans than SDSU and Augie is close.

i don't think that is correct. See, e.g. Post 65 in this thread.

JACKGUYII is actually correct, I just didn't include their attendance numbers in my breakdown because I was comparing Augie's attendance to the local D1s.

Northern is consistently #1 in the country for D2 attendance, and, according to the NCAA's numbers last year, averaged 3,402 fans per game last season (which is more than every local D1). To his point, Augie is close to SDSU, averaging only 300 fewer fans per game than the Jackrabbits (2,697 per game to SDSU's 2,993 per game).

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: A kinder, gentler Scott Nagy?

We (SDSU) can't have it both ways! What if Kansas doesn't give us a chance to play FB or the gophers won't let us on the basketball court? Now the shoe is on the other foot and we say oh no Augie your just DII we aren't gonna play you! What's up with that? Augie has a good team but I'm sure not scared of them and if I was we have much bigger problems. In case many haven't noticed we haven't exactly been packing Frost arena. IMO this game would be one of the bigger crowds of the year. What would be wrong if a game like this might create interest for different fan bases?

When we play Kansas or the Gophers, it is DI playing a lower division of DI. The win counts towards playoffs or post-season selection committees.

Augie is a division below us, a win against Augie (or USF or Wayne State or Bemidji State or Presentation College) doesn't count for anything. Its why it was such a bonehead move to schedule Oshkosh in the Beef Bowl last year, and why the person in charge of football schedules is no longer at SDSU. The fact that we made the playoffs on an 11 game schedule when everyone else played 12 speaks to how respected our program is.

DII games are glorified practice (they don't count for anything meaningful). Often, there is a personal connection between SDSU and the DII school. DWU has a former SDSU GA as head coach. Coach Nagy's son plays at Wayne State.

Personally, they should do everything they can to fill the schedule with DI's. That means playing games in Sioux Falls though, and some fans would rather watch us play DII's in Brookings than DI's in Sioux Falls. I'm also guessing the coaches like the practice in real game conditions too, but 4 sub-DI on the schedule is someone not doing their job, IMO.

[MrAugustana]

Re: A kinder, gentler Scott Nagy?

When we play Kansas or the Gophers, it is DI playing a lower division of DI. The win counts towards playoffs or post-season selection committees.

Augie is a division below us, a win against Augie (or USF or Wayne State or Bemidji State or Presentation College) doesn't count for anything. Its why it was such a bonehead move to schedule Oshkosh in the Beef Bowl last year, and why the person in charge of football schedules is no longer at SDSU. The fact that we made the playoffs on an 11 game schedule when everyone else played 12 speaks to how respected our program is.

DII games are glorified practice (they don't count for anything meaningful). Often, there is a personal connection between SDSU and the DII school. DWU has a former SDSU GA as head coach. Coach Nagy's son plays at Wayne State.

Personally, they should do everything they can to fill the schedule with DI's. That means playing games in Sioux Falls though, and some fans would rather watch us play DII's in Brookings than DI's in Sioux Falls. I'm also guessing the coaches like the practice in real game conditions too, but 4 sub-DI on the schedule is someone not doing their job, IMO.

This is also a reasonable post. I want to start by saying I agree with you that, ultimately, the Jacks should be filling their schedule with as many D1s as possible (I know the response will be, "Everybody's too scared to play us," and I get that, but you still have to figure something out). My point continues to be that if you have to schedule a D2, you might as well schedule a game that people will actually want to come watch, even if the risk/reward is a little worse. Admittedly, JackJD had a reasonable refutation of that opinion, even if I still think it makes more sense to play a solid D2 program than a bottom-feeder D2 program.

Now, please recognize that I'm not arguing with the points you presented here, just pointing something out for the sake of discussion...you've twice referred to those D2 games as glorified practices. And that's fine. But they're still glorified practices that a family of 4-5 is paying $30-$60+ to come watch for an evening. And, in a sense, that's kind of ridiculous, particularly when, as multiple confident SDSU fans have indicated, it would still be a solid victory for the Jacks whether they play Chadron State or Augie and would be more entertaining for the fans who currently aren't coming to watch you guys play Wayne State on a Wednesday night anyway.

Because at this point those fans know it's a glorified practice, and, from the sound of things on here, it seems people are ok with that (bad team, low attendance, work out some kinks and treat it like a practice). In that case, I don't have much else to discuss (and Jackrabbit fans around the world rejoiced).

I mostly just brought up SDSU playing Augie because it was brought up directly to me on this thread that SDSU misses beating up on us, and I replied that I'm sure Augie would have no problem giving SDSU the chance to beat up on them again if SDSU ever wanted to take that chance. But despite the seemingly undeniable superiority of the Jacks over Augie, that opportunity hasn't yet come to fruition. I completely recognize it most likely never will, which is totally fine. But if someone says, "I'd love to watch us cream you guys," but that team is consistently reluctant/afraid to play us, I feel like a response on my part is at least merited, even if unwanted. Hopefully at least some people can understand where I'm coming from, even if you guys find me annoying.

[gojacksgo]

Re: A kinder, gentler Scott Nagy?

I'm also guessing the coaches like the practice in real game conditions too, but 4 sub-DI on the schedule is someone not doing their job, IMO.

2 are exhibition. I've never seen them play a D1 in exhibition and it wouldn't make sense to do so. I would love it if they played a D1 in scrimmage which would take away one of the exhibition games. But if that doesn't work out, is it feasible to get rid of an exhibition game just so you aren't playing a sub D1 opponent?

As for the 2 sub D1 games within the actual season. 7 out of 9 conference mates have done the same(just Denver and IUPUI haven't). Rather than think somebody isn't doing their job, that makes me think the conference as a whole should do something to make scheduling a little easier across the board. Adding a member to get back up to 10 would help that out immensely. If that doesn't happen and we quit playing sub D1 teams, we will have 2 OOC home games each year and be on the road for the rest.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: A kinder, gentler Scott Nagy?

This is also a reasonable post. I want to start by saying I agree with you that, ultimately, the Jacks should be filling their schedule with as many D1s as possible (I know the response will be, "Everybody's too scared to play us," and I get that, but you still have to figure something out). My point continues to be that if you have to schedule a D2, you might as well schedule a game that people will actually want to come watch, even if the risk/reward is a little worse. Admittedly, JackJD had a reasonable refutation of that opinion, even if I still think it makes more sense to play a solid D2 program than a bottom-feeder D2 program.

Now, please recognize that I'm not arguing with the points you presented here, just pointing something out for the sake of discussion...you've twice referred to those D2 games as glorified practices. And that's fine. But they're still glorified practices that a family of 4-5 is paying $30-$60+ to come watch for an evening. And, in a sense, that's kind of ridiculous, particularly when, as multiple confident SDSU fans have indicated, it would still be a solid victory for the Jacks whether they play Chadron State or Augie and would be more entertaining for the fans who currently aren't coming to watch you guys play Wayne State on a Wednesday night anyway.

Because at this point those fans know it's a glorified practice, and, from the sound of things on here, it seems people are ok with that (bad team, no attendance, work out some kinks and treat it like a practice). In that case, I don't have much else to discuss (and Jackrabbit fans around the world rejoiced).

I mostly just brought up SDSU playing Augie because it was brought up directly to me on this thread that SDSU misses beating up on us, and I replied that I'm sure Augie would have no problem giving SDSU the chance to beat up on them again if SDSU ever wanted to take that chance. But despite the seemingly undeniable superiority of the Jacks over Augie, that opportunity hasn't yet come to fruition. I completely recognize it most likely never will, which is totally fine. But if someone says, "I'd love to watch us cream you guys," but that team is consistently reluctant/afraid to play us, I feel like a response on my part is at least merited, even if unwanted. Hopefully at least some people can understand where I'm coming from, even if you guys find me annoying.

Augie would compete in the Summit within a year or two, maybe from year 1. Others may disagree, but here's my reasoning:

-Across the roster, they are not as talented right now. However, they have 2-3 players who would easily start at multiple Summit schools.
-They are loaded with veterans who aren't likely to back down from a challenge.
-Their attendance is good, which means booster support is good.
-Recruiting to Sioux Falls would be sooooooo easy compared to Brookings, Vermillion, or Macomb, IL.
-They have an outstanding coach.

IMO, if not for their new football stadium, Augie would already be in the Summit.

Ticket prices are a joke for these games, but SDSU is not concerned with that. We could play Platte High School, and there would be ~1500 season tickets pre-sold for the game, who cares how many show up to watch practice? For those that choose not to buy season tickets and attend 3-6 games a year, they are likely to choose to attend conference games and/or the Summit League tournament. Not meant as putting Augie down, but I don't see many fans circling a date with Augie on the schedule when we have USD, NDSU, ORU, and Denver coming to town. Any attendance bump we would see for 1 game against Augie would be mostly Augie fans. Same goes for Northern. Again, just my opinion.

I just looked at our home schedule, why anyone buys season tickets is beyond me. Our home schedule this year is pathetic (I don't use that term lightly).

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: A kinder, gentler Scott Nagy?

2 are exhibition. I've never seen them play a D1 in exhibition and it wouldn't make sense to do so. I would love it if they played a D1 in scrimmage which would take away one of the exhibition games. But if that doesn't work out, is it feasible to get rid of an exhibition game just so you aren't playing a sub D1 opponent?

As for the 2 sub D1 games within the actual season. 7 out of 9 conference mates have done the same(just Denver and IUPUI haven't). Rather than think somebody isn't doing their job, that makes me think the conference as a whole should do something to make scheduling a little easier across the board. Adding a member to get back up to 10 would help that out immensely. If that doesn't happen and we quit playing sub D1 teams, we will have 2 OOC home games each year and be on the road for the rest.

They have had closed scrimmages w/ Div I schools in the past (eg. Witchita State a few years back).

[slosho]

Re: A kinder, gentler Scott Nagy?

When we play Kansas or the Gophers, it is DI playing a lower division of DI. The win counts towards playoffs or post-season selection committees.

Augie is a division below us, a win against Augie (or USF or Wayne State or Bemidji State or Presentation College) doesn't count for anything. Its why it was such a bonehead move to schedule Oshkosh in the Beef Bowl last year, and why the person in charge of football schedules is no longer at SDSU. The fact that we made the playoffs on an 11 game schedule when everyone else played 12 speaks to how respected our program is.

Careful when drawing conclusions between BB and FB as they are completely different.
I'm not sure if it changed with the expansion of the playoffs or not. But 1D2 win used to count toward win total in fcs football. But when it comes to BB there is technically no lower division like there is in FB.

[Nidaros]

Re: A kinder, gentler Scott Nagy?

If we play Augie, no carrots please.

[MrAugustana]

Re: A kinder, gentler Scott Nagy?

Augie would compete in the Summit within a year or two, maybe from year 1. Others may disagree, but here's my reasoning:

-Across the roster, they are not as talented right now. However, they have 2-3 players who would easily start at multiple Summit schools.
-They are loaded with veterans who aren't likely to back down from a challenge.
-Their attendance is good, which means booster support is good.
-Recruiting to Sioux Falls would be sooooooo easy compared to Brookings, Vermillion, or Macomb, IL.
-They have an outstanding coach.

IMO, if not for their new football stadium, Augie would already be in the Summit.

Ticket prices are a joke for these games, but SDSU is not concerned with that. We could play Platte High School, and there would be ~1500 season tickets pre-sold for the game, who cares how many show up to watch practice? For those that choose not to buy season tickets and attend 3-6 games a year, they are likely to choose to attend conference games and/or the Summit League tournament. Not meant as putting Augie down, but I don't see many fans circling a date with Augie on the schedule when we have USD, NDSU, ORU, and Denver coming to town. Any attendance bump we would see for 1 game against Augie would be mostly Augie fans. Same goes for Northern. Again, just my opinion.

I just looked at our home schedule, why anyone buys season tickets is beyond me. Our home schedule this year is pathetic (I don't use that term lightly).

Again with the thoughtful, reasonable responses. Not much for me to say to disagree with or even add to that. Thanks for the good conversation.

[jacksfan29]

Re: A kinder, gentler Scott Nagy?

Weren't we told by many SDSU fans that the USD men would compete in the Summit from day one? In fact, if I go back my guess is that I will find a lot of those now talking up Augustana are the same that were pumping USD. How has that worked out? How many years did it take us to compete? The jump from D2 to D1 is much bigger than any of us expected it to be. Yet Augustana would roll into the Summit and within a year or two be playing for conference titles? Really?

Augustana is a division 2 school. They play in the NSIC. We want Sioux Falls fans (including some of our own alumni) to recognize that SDSU is now D1, WHICH WE ARE. Augustana is an old NCC foe. Playing them does us no good.

This is why the Bison fans sometimes make fun of us. Here we are spending hours talking Augustana because one of their fans came on our site and made some noise. I don't see a lot of "should we play MSU Moorhead" threads on BV? Can we expect a "why don't we play NSU" thread soon if someone from Northern shows up? How about BHSU? Those teams are also D2?

We don't play Augustana. We may never again play Augustana, there is no reason for us to play Augustana. We have moved on and up. They moved on and stayed D2, or considering who left; maybe we can say they moved down. Some deride our playing Mines, last time I checked they are D2; just like Augustana College (University).

Augie would compete in the Summit within a year or two, maybe from year 1. Others may disagree, but here's my reasoning:

-Across the roster, they are not as talented right now. However, they have 2-3 players who would easily start at multiple Summit schools.
-They are loaded with veterans who aren't likely to back down from a challenge.
-Their attendance is good, which means booster support is good.
-Recruiting to Sioux Falls would be sooooooo easy compared to Brookings, Vermillion, or Macomb, IL.
-They have an outstanding coach.

IMO, if not for their new football stadium, Augie would already be in the Summit.

Ticket prices are a joke for these games, but SDSU is not concerned with that. We could play Platte High School, and there would be ~1500 season tickets pre-sold for the game, who cares how many show up to watch practice? For those that choose not to buy season tickets and attend 3-6 games a year, they are likely to choose to attend conference games and/or the Summit League tournament. Not meant as putting Augie down, but I don't see many fans circling a date with Augie on the schedule when we have USD, NDSU, ORU, and Denver coming to town. Any attendance bump we would see for 1 game against Augie would be mostly Augie fans. Same goes for Northern. Again, just my opinion.

I just looked at our home schedule, why anyone buys season tickets is beyond me. Our home schedule this year is pathetic (I don't use that term lightly).

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: A kinder, gentler Scott Nagy?

I just looked at our home schedule, why anyone buys season tickets is beyond me. Our home schedule this year is pathetic (I don't use that term lightly).

I buy season tickets (10th year; started during the very lean years) because I enjoy going to games (Men & Women) regardless of the opponents. Yes I would like if they did away w/ the Div II games but it isn't going to stop me from buying season tickets and financially supporting the BBall teams.