DII Women's Basketball National Championship

[sfjacksfan99]

Re: DII Women's Basketball National Championship

I have seen them play 3 times and we would beat them by 20+. As for the championship game, I could give a s**t.

Agree with all of this. Did not watch a second of the game as real D-1 basketball was on. Didn't even know until Sunday morning they had lost. "SHOT DOWN" being the headline. I sang a little Bon Jovi "Shot down in a blaze of glory" and smiled. Is Stu Whitney going to write an article about the smirk that came out of Brookings Saturday night like he did last week from the other spectrum?

Those of you who cheered for them. Don't know how you can do it. Never have, never will cheer for them.

[Drake]

Re: DII Women's Basketball National Championship

The SDSU and USD women had three common opponents this year ... USD defeated Creighton in a scrimage in Omaha, defeated Northern Iowa in exhibition 76-46 in Cedar Falls and SW Minn. State 75-65 in Vermillion with reserves playing the majority of the second half.

[propar80]

Re: DII Women's Basketball National Championship

The SDSU and USD women had three common opponents this year ... USD defeated Creighton in a scrimage in Omaha, defeated Northern Iowa in exhibition 76-46 in Cedar Falls and SW Minn. State 75-65 in Vermillion with reserves playing the majority of the second half.

You're joking right?? A scrimage and an exhibition and then throwing out that reserves played a majority of the minutes in a 10 point game? Keep reaching if it makes you feel better.

There's two facts. SDSU plays D-1 competition all year long and USD plays D-2 competition all year long. If you don't think there's a difference, you're in for a long ride.

Go Jacks!!

[State_fan]

Re: DII Women's Basketball National Championship

The SDSU and USD women had three common opponents this year ... USD defeated Creighton in a scrimage in Omaha, defeated Northern Iowa in exhibition 76-46 in Cedar Falls and SW Minn. State 75-65 in Vermillion with reserves playing the majority of the second half.

And the SDSU men's team beat DWU by 5 in exhibition, followed by losing to Minnesota by 6 in the regular season. So then apparently DWU could play within 1 of the Gophers. Yeah sure. Exhibition and scrimmages don't mean crap. Start comparing common opponents scores in post season play then maybe its a little more reasonable, but to compare based on preseason play dumb.

[NorCalJack]

Re: DII Women's Basketball National Championship

Scrimmages and Exhibitions really don't hold much water with me. It is fun for D-2 schools to boast that they beat a D-1 team, but the games don't count and D-1 teams don't hold them in as high a regard as D-2 teams do.

Look at Grand Valley St., the men's team beat Michigan St. in an exhibition game. Michigan St. ended up in the Sweet 16 in the NCAA tourney. If Grand Valley St. was playing against Big 10 teams, night in and night out, in games that acutally counted toward getting into the NCAA, they would not win one game. The rigours of playing against that talent takes it's toll over time.

The other issue that D-2 teams don't have to deal with is the travel that D-1 teams have. USD probably took a bus trip on every road trip this year. SDSU had maybe one bus trip to Fargo for a road game. It is tough enough to win on the road, but to travel by plane with connecting flights just to get to a game, can take it's toll on a team also.

These are things that SDSU has learned about during the transition period and USD will learn about soon enough.

Go State!!!
Go Jacks!!!

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: DII Women's Basketball National Championship

The SDSU and USD women had three common opponents this year ... USD defeated Creighton in a scrimage in Omaha, defeated Northern Iowa in exhibition 76-46 in Cedar Falls and SW Minn. State 75-65 in Vermillion with reserves playing the majority of the second half.

A very sad, sad grasp for legitimacy. I think the idiocy of comparing pre-season games has been addressed, but Drake, you forgot to mention ... oh who cares about that crap.

I did watch most of the game and noted two things. First, the athleticism was at a much lower level than most of the Summit teams, let alone the top 30 D-1 teams. Second, the pace of the game was slow. Even when a team was trying to push the tempo, it still seemed slow.

Watching this game proved they played at a different level. Good luck to USD in the future, it will be interesting to see who they have as coach next year.

[1bunnies]

Re: DII Women's Basketball National Championship

The SDSU and USD women had three common opponents this year ... USD defeated Creighton in a scrimage in Omaha, defeated Northern Iowa in exhibition 76-46 in Cedar Falls and SW Minn. State 75-65 in Vermillion with reserves playing the majority of the second half.

If memory serves me right I believe usd2 defeated 4-5 NAIA schools also. Wow, they really are good.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: DII Women's Basketball National Championship

When it comes to comparing scores Jackrabbit fans take the stance that the score comparing is only relevant when it benefits the Jacks. Eventhough USD seemed to fair well better against common opponents the SDSU Women would still win by 20 in a head to head matchup. But of course the Jackrabbit Women are still better than Creighton though.

Florida Gulf coast who just lost last years D2 women's title game made the WNIT in their first year of D1 this year. Just another fact that will be made to not hold any legitimacy either. Delta State has athletes that I am sure are as good as SDSU sees on a semi regular basis. USD seemed to be able to play ok with them. The more some of you SDSU fans downplay what USD does, even when they make the championship game just takes away from your credibility all the more.

[filbert]

Re: DII Women's Basketball National Championship

Comparing scores is generally a silly thing to do, doubly so when you're talking about exhibition game scores. USD fans need to bring something more substantial here to this discussion to be taken seriously.

For the season, SDSU shot 43.1% from the field, 37.1% from 3 point, and outrebounded their opponents by 5.2 per game. The Jacks held their opponents to 40.9% overall shooting and 30.8% 3-point shooting. That in a Division I schedule.

USD shot 42.3% from the field, 36.8% from 3 point, and were outrebounded by their opponents by 3 per game, held their opponents to 38.6% shooting, 31.7% from 3 point range, against Division II opponents. I'd point out that not all D-II opponents are of the quality of UND.

SDSU and USD's shooting offense stats are almost identical with SDSU's being a shade better. SDSU's rebounding stats are much better. USD's shooting defense stats are perhaps a shade better.

This is where the level of competition enters into the discussion. What USD's team stats tell me is that they were a superior team at their level of play. But we all know that when you move up a division to play, your shooting percentage will go down, and your rebounding will go down, too. I do not consider it likely that USD would be able to maintain their statistics while playing teams like George Washington and Utah. And, for every Southern Utah or Centenary SDSU played, there's an NAIA team on USD's schedule.

So no, the argument that USD is the equal of SDSU right now, this second, in women's basketball is a non-starter, unless you've got something better to come with than exhibition score comparisons and righteous bluster about "credibility." Go look at the statistics, and try a little objectivity.

But the nice thing is that next year USD will get to start proving it where it counts, on the court, rather than just spouting off on message boards.

If USD can, like SDSU, go 21-7 in their first transitional year while playing twelve established D-I teams, nine on the road and another 3 at a neutral site, and beating seven of those D-I teams including schools from two from the SEC and one each from the Big 12, Sun Belt, MAC, Horizon, and Southland converences, then I will be prepared to entertain the argument that USD's program is ahead of SDSU's at the same point in the transition. That will not be easy to do.

If USD can win 19 or more games each of their four transitional years, I will be impressed. That will not be easy to do, either.

Losing only two games in a long basketball season, at any level, is a notable and admirable accomplishment. But it does not logically follow that success at Division II automatically translates to success at Division I. SDSU (and, this year, Florida Gulf Coast) show that it's possible in women's basketball. NDSU shows that it's not at all inevitable, even if you go 26-1 in your first transitional year like the Bison did.

But USD has some major challenges for next year, losing not only four seniors but bringing in a new head coach. The program might not miss a beat--who can really say? But maintaining success will not be easy to do.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: DII Women's Basketball National Championship

When it comes to comparing scores Jackrabbit fans take the stance that the score comparing is only relevant when it benefits the Jacks. Eventhough USD seemed to fair well better against common opponents the SDSU Women would still win by 20 in a head to head matchup. But of course the Jackrabbit Women are still better than Creighton though.

Florida Gulf coast who just lost last years D2 women's title game made the WNIT in their first year of D1 this year. Just another fact that will be made to not hold any legitimacy either. Delta State has athletes that I am sure are as good as SDSU sees on a semi regular basis. USD seemed to be able to play ok with them. The more some of you SDSU fans downplay what USD does, even when they make the championship game just takes away from your credibility all the more.

Florida Gulf Coast made the WNIT this year and played in last years D2 title game. Delta State played in the semi-finals. How the heck does that relate to what we saw in this years D2 championship game. FGC & Delta were not in it.

I'll give you that USD beat Delta to get to the finals, does that mean they have more athletic/talented players? Uh, no. Just ask any of the teams up to and including Kansas that played Davidson. Davidson played better team ball, but top to bottom, they weren't the most athletic team on the court each game. They may have been smarter, and knew how to use one stud player that got hot, but they weren't the most athletic/talented team on the court each round.

Oh, BTW, Florida Gulf Coast and Delta State are not USD and Northern Kentucky.

[filbert]

Re: DII Women's Basketball National Championship

Superbunny: I moved your last post to Smack.

I'd like to see a more elevated and rational discussion here. If you want to smack away, go to the new thread in the Smack section. Thanks.

[JimmyJack]

Re: DII Women's Basketball National Championship

Comparing scores is generally a silly thing to do, doubly so when you're talking about exhibition game scores. USD fans need to bring something more substantial here to this discussion to be taken seriously.

For the season, SDSU shot 43.1% from the field, 37.1% from 3 point, and outrebounded their opponents by 5.2 per game. The Jacks held their opponents to 40.9% overall shooting and 30.8% 3-point shooting. That in a Division I schedule.

USD shot 42.3% from the field, 36.8% from 3 point, and were outrebounded by their opponents by 3 per game, held their opponents to 38.6% shooting, 31.7% from 3 point range, against Division II opponents. I'd point out that not all D-II opponents are of the quality of UND.

SDSU and USD's shooting offense stats are almost identical with SDSU's being a shade better. SDSU's rebounding stats are much better. USD's shooting defense stats are perhaps a shade better.

This is where the level of competition enters into the discussion. What USD's team stats tell me is that they were a superior team at their level of play. But we all know that when you move up a division to play, your shooting percentage will go down, and your rebounding will go down, too. I do not consider it likely that USD would be able to maintain their statistics while playing teams like George Washington and Utah. And, for every Southern Utah or Centenary SDSU played, there's an NAIA team on USD's schedule.

So no, the argument that USD is the equal of SDSU right now, this second, in women's basketball is a non-starter, unless you've got something better to come with than exhibition score comparisons and righteous bluster about "credibility." Go look at the statistics, and try a little objectivity.

But the nice thing is that next year USD will get to start proving it where it counts, on the court, rather than just spouting off on message boards.

If USD can, like SDSU, go 21-7 in their first transitional year while playing twelve established D-I teams, nine on the road and another 3 at a neutral site, and beating seven of those D-I teams including schools from two from the SEC and one each from the Big 12, Sun Belt, MAC, Horizon, and Southland converences, then I will be prepared to entertain the argument that USD's program is ahead of SDSU's at the same point in the transition. That will not be easy to do.

If USD can win 19 or more games each of their four transitional years, I will be impressed. That will not be easy to do, either.

Losing only two games in a long basketball season, at any level, is a notable and admirable accomplishment. But it does not logically follow that success at Division II automatically translates to success at Division I. SDSU (and, this year, Florida Gulf Coast) show that it's possible in women's basketball. NDSU shows that it's not at all inevitable, even if you go 26-1 in your first transitional year like the Bison did.

But USD has some major challenges for next year, losing not only four seniors but bringing in a new head coach. The program might not miss a beat--who can really say? But maintaining success will not be easy to do.

Somebody drop a positive rep point on Filbert for me. I just gave him one the other day and it won't let me boost him again so soon.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: DII Women's Basketball National Championship

Florida Gulf coast who just lost last years D2 women's title game made the WNIT in their first year of D1 this year. Just another fact that will be made to not hold any legitimacy either.

Au contraire, my little puppy. There is no need to not hold Florida Gulf Coast's achievement as legitimate. If you would do a little research, it would help you from making such statements. FGCU is just 10 years old as a university (first admittance in June 1997) and is the fastest growing university in Florida. It's enrollment double in the first few years and has been increasing by double digits every since, with 8,900 students (oh my gosh, more than that of USD) now there. They are in a booming growth area and will keep moving up in enrollment. They transitioned to D-I in just eight years of an athletic program, and can be proud of being invited to the WNIT in their first year of transition. They are only the second team ever in transition to make the WNIT following the trailblazing effort of South Dakota's largest university, which has now been in two WNIT tournaments. Both schools deserve your applause.

I will make you a promise...when the University of South Dakota's womens basketball team gets invited to the WNIT next year, I will publicly applaud their legitimacy.

[jackmd]

Re: DII Women's Basketball National Championship

You can only win or lose against the teams you play. You can't beat another team by beating a team they lost to or by beating a team they beat by beating them by more points. If this does not make sense please read it again.

USD fans, players, coaches shouldn't be wasting their time wondering if they can compete at the DI level as well as SDSU or FGC or Centenary or whoever. We're going to find out soon enough. If anyone is naive enough to think any level of success or failure in the DII ranks translates to DI than you've got the wrong guys doing the thinking.

DI is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ballgame and MUCH HIGHER LEVEL than DII both on and off the court. Some might even argue that the Udot's relative success the last few year at DII bolstered by DI and DII transfers may actually HURT Udot during the transition. In fact, if I had time, I think I could make a pretty good argument in support of that point.

There any many reasons to suspect that Udot is going to struggle in the transition, in fact, its EXPECTED. Very few expected our immediate success in women's basketball. If the majority of yote fans are expecting a repeat of our performance I'm afraid many will be sorely disappointed. Reality may be a tough pill to swallow but its gonna go down one way or another.

[mitchellrabbit]

Re: DII Women's Basketball National Championship

The SDSU and USD women had three common opponents this year ... USD defeated Creighton in a scrimage in Omaha, defeated Northern Iowa in exhibition 76-46 in Cedar Falls and SW Minn. State 75-65 in Vermillion with reserves playing the majority of the second half.

the reserves playing the majority of the second half? the hoffmans played 35 and 37 minutes. the reserves played: Dirks, 2 minutes, Fargan, 6 minutes, Iverson 2 minutes, Carda , 4 minutes, Robinette, 3 minutes. yep, thats most of the 2nd half. usd led by just 12 at halftime. the jacks led sw st by 31 at halftime.