ND legislature and Sioux name

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: ND legislature and Sioux name

What a mess.

[bigticket1]

Re: ND legislature and Sioux name

Hardly a surprise, I guess they could use some of the oil tax surplus to hire some good lawyers as the NCAA will not be taking this sitting down and will certainly sue, meanwhile those of us in ND who live along township roads do not have money to clear the snow that's still coming everyother day. Instead of worrying about a stupid logo, you would think some road maintence funds would be in order. There are too many UND grads in the legislature.

If they really believe that they can out-lawyer,out-spend and out-last the NCAA,I want some of what they're smokin . And,I don't belive the NCAA has to sue - membership is a voluntary thing and they can accept/deny anyone who doesn't meet their guidelines. ND would have to prove that those guidelines are illegal and they are being discriminated against.

[FargoBison]

Re: ND legislature and Sioux name

It just keeps on getting weirder....

Despite vote, UND still plans to drop nickname

BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) — A University of North Dakota spokesman says UND still plans to drop its Fighting Sioux nickname, even though the Legislature has voted to keep it.

Peter Johnson says the university intends to follow earlier direction from the Board of Higher Education. He says if the board provides different direction, the board will follow that.

The board has ordered UND to drop the nickname and a logo that features the profile of an American Indian warrior. They are both to be retired in August.

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/311987/

[zooropa]

Re: ND legislature and Sioux name

If they really believe that they can out-lawyer,out-spend and out-last the NCAA,I want some of what they're smokin . And,I don't belive the NCAA has to sue - membership is a voluntary thing and they can accept/deny anyone who doesn't meet their guidelines. ND would have to prove that those guidelines are illegal and they are being discriminated against.

The terms of the settlement required one of the following: Tribal approval by October 31(?), 2010 or implementation of a process to retire the nickname.

I'm curious to see if the settlement addresses this circumstance--that is, a change in law that effectively precludes the SBoHE from complying with the settlement.

Assuming that this constitutes breach of the settlement, then the NCAA's original sanctions will likely take effect sooner or later.

These sanctions don't go so far as excluding an institution from NCAA membership, but they do include the following:

...they will not be able to host future NCAA championships competition, unless they already have been selected as a predetermined site. In those cases, schools still would have to take reasonable steps to cover up the references to Native Americans before the competition begins.

For championships in general, the new policy means that institutions displaying or promoting hostile or abusive references on their mascots, cheerleaders, dance teams and band uniforms or paraphernalia would be prohibited from wearing the material during competition. Related merchandise also could not be sold at the championship site. Those provisions become effective August 1, 2008.

http://www.ulm.edu/mascot/position.html

Effectively, this means no NCAA playoff games at the Alerus (if UND makes it to the FCS playoffs), no hockey playoffs at the Ralph, sanitized attire during playoffs (although apparently not extending to team uniforms), and a ban on the sale of 'offensive' merchandise at tournament venues--that is, no UND gear for sale at the Frozen Five (or whatever they're calling it).

[bigticket1]

Re: ND legislature and Sioux name

The terms of the settlement required one of the following: Tribal approval by October 31(?), 2010 or implementation of a process to retire the nickname.

I'm curious to see if the settlement addresses this circumstance--that is, a change in law that effectively precludes the SBoHE from complying with the settlement.

Assuming that this constitutes breach of the settlement, then the NCAA's original sanctions will likely take effect sooner or later.

These sanctions don't go so far as excluding an institution from NCAA membership, but they do include the following:


http://www.ulm.edu/mascot/position.html

Effectively, this means no NCAA playoff games at the Alerus (if UND makes it to the FCS playoffs), no hockey playoffs at the Ralph, sanitized attire during playoffs (although apparently not extending to team uniforms), and a ban on the sale of 'offensive' merchandise at tournament venues--that is, no UND gear for sale at the Frozen Five (or whatever they're calling it).

Also,teams can refuse to schedule UND for non-conference games (as a number of major conference teams already have)

[FargoBison]

Re: ND legislature and Sioux name

NCAA: Fighting Sioux bill doesn't change policy

BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) — An NCAA spokesman says the association's policy on the University of North Dakota's Fighting Sioux nickname and logo hasn't changed.

The North Dakota Senate on Friday approved a bill that orders UND to keep its nickname and logo. The NCAA considers them hostile and abusive to American Indians.

The NCAA has said if UND keeps the name and logo, the school won't be able to host postseason tournaments. UND athletes also won't be able to wear the name and logo on jerseys during

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/312000/

[JackJD]

Re: ND legislature and Sioux name

ESPN story (similar to Forum stories, linked above):

Note the last sentence:
"School officials worry the dispute will complicate the school's plans to join the NCAA's Division I Big Sky Conference next year."

This is the reason the Big Sky can use to say 'no thanks' to UND, something I'm guessing the Conference has thought about since USD went East.

Amazing.

[goon]

Re: ND legislature and Sioux name

Everybody loves a good train wreck.

[Prairiehaas]

Re: ND legislature and Sioux name

Correct me if I am wrong but, doesn't the NCAA have to still give final approval on UND's move up to D1?

Could this move by the State of ND delay or stop that process? And if so wouldn't this have a profound affect on scheduling for all UND sports, except hockey?

[JackJD]

Re: ND legislature and Sioux name

Correct me if I am wrong but, doesn't the NCAA have to still give final approval on UND's move up to D1?

Could this move by the State of ND delay or stop that process? And if so wouldn't this have a profound affect on scheduling for all UND sports, except hockey?

Yes. And that would have a profound effect on hockey, too.

[JackJD]

Re: ND legislature and Sioux name

I found a recent picture of the North Dakota legislature:

[Nidaros]

Re: ND legislature and Sioux name

One guy our football guys battled on the football field, Mac Schnieder, who represents Grand Forks ND Legislature voted against this bill since he felt it would hurt the student athletes chances for hosting NCAA events. He is mentioned in the articles, and I found his take to be a bit of a surprise. He is now a lawyer btw and does a lot of advertising for Social Security disability claims, apparently this has become his speciality when not serving in Bismarck.

Some of or ND friends can correct me, but I believe his older brother Jasper is the State Director for USDA Rural Development.

He does have to face re-election so you have to admire him for sticking his neck out on this bill and doing the right thing.

[Nidaros]

Re: ND legislature and Sioux name

Correct me if I am wrong but, doesn't the NCAA have to still give final approval on UND's move up to D1?

Could this move by the State of ND delay or stop that process? And if so wouldn't this have a profound affect on scheduling for all UND sports, except hockey?

Good point, both UND and USD have to go through the ceritifcation process which is a big deal in terms of paper work. I still remember sitting in on a forum at SDSU, and what I took from this forum, was our faculty was doing a whole bunch of things to make this fly. You have to have a bunch of cooperation. I suspect that this process might be a motivation for the President and AD to be glued to the ND Board of Education decision to drop the logo on schedule. Dropping logo will be a huge part of the certification process I suspect, and if its not done then no D1 membership and no Big Sky membership. Without NCAA membership where will UND go? There is always the NAIA I guess, but this issue would still be a problem is they move to D2 or D3.

[JackJD]

Re: ND legislature and Sioux name

There is an opinion piece in today's Grand Forks Herald pointing out most of the Grand Forks representatives and Senators voted against the bill because they understand the dire consequences that could occur. The opinion writer quotes posts on Bisonville to illustrate the point, showing how NDSU fans are gleeful about what could happen to UND.

[Prairiehaas]

Re: ND legislature and Sioux name

Division II and Division III are regulated by the NCAA also. If the logo issue delays certificaiton to Division I then I'm thinking they won't be allowed to drop back down to lower levels either. And NAIA has no hockey.

The fight UND is picking here appears unwinable. The term "picking a fight with Ma Bell" comes to mind. What would be the modern equivalent?

Perhaps the politicians are buying time to see whether a vote can be forced on the Standing Rock?