New Arena for Sioux Falls

[goon]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Even though I am a fan of a down town event center which prolly wont happen, I do agree with stu a lot on this. To many people pushing for only what they want. No one is willing to meet in the middle. Heres a thought, why not trust our elected officials to make these decisions and purpose it to the voters and let them decide. Then again what the city put out first was not what most people wanted and got us into this mess.

[Kemo]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

I think Stu did a pretty good job except for this sentence from the blog post:

But if you want to think about state tournaments, why not ponder what a 14,000-seat venue could do in terms of making Sioux Falls the ultimate March Madness destination?

14,000 will NOT cut it for the NCAA in Men's Basketball, as the Qwest Center in Omaha had to expand from 15,500 capacity to over 17,000 to be able to host the first round games 2 years ago.

Please, I beg everyone of you who actually wants these kind of events in Sioux Falls to inform anyone in the area of this information so that they don't go building an undersized arena. Building an arena with too low of capacity would inhibit the facility's ability to bring in "out of state" dollars to Sioux Falls, as it would not be useful for large scale, national events. If someone responds with "that venue would be too big for Stampede/Storm games, etc... suggest the idea of making the arena have the ability to close off the upper level and be able to hide it behind a "curtain" or such to make the arena more intimate for this types of events.

This is the most important issue in my opinion that faces constructing the new arena and the one issue that should NOT be compromised (besides maybe making sure it is "not" a football friendly facility as well, as it should be an arena, not a dome).

[Nidaros]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Here is an article in the Argus today Sunday, May 31, 2009. Estimates indicate the new arena will cost 150 million. Also note the comments, none very positive. It looks like a very hard sell for the movers and shakers of Sioux Falls;

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs...#pluckcomments

[Jacks99]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Downside to the larger capacities 17+ is that it would negatively affect smaller events 8-12,000. No one likes the empty feeling and how many events will SF support in that range? Is the the occasional NCAA regional and blockbuster concert enough to justify it? Not sure most taxpayers will be on board with it. Especially given the recent economic woes.

[Kemo]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Downside to the larger capacities 17+ is that it would negatively affect smaller events 8-12,000. No one likes the empty feeling and how many events will SF support in that range?

As I mentioned in a previous post, the smaller crowd events would only need to open the lower bowl of area of the arena, with the upper bowel not being visible due to a curtain (think upper deck Metrodome curtain with Kirby, Herby, and the gang, only wrapped all the away around the upper section).

Is the the occasional NCAA regional and blockbuster concert enough to justify it?

I would say it would justify the extra space if you think about the economic impact it have on the city's businesses (didn't the Summit League Tourney have an economic impact of $2 Million?, which is a way smaller event compared to that of an NCAA Men's 1st/2nd round or regional); Especially if you consider these events would bring in a lot of "out of state" money that would not have been spent in the city without such an event.

Beyond being able to host these kind of events itself, the grow of the city needs to be taken into account as well. Sioux Falls and the surrounding towns have been growing at an exceptional rate over the past 20 years and are really showing no signs of slowing down, so why build an arena that the city may out grow in 20 years or less. Having foresight when building such structures is the difference between having a venue that lasts only 20 years to one that could last 50+ years.

[joeboo22]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

As I mentioned in a previous post, the smaller crowd events would only need to open the lower bowl of area of the arena, with the upper bowel not being visible due to a curtain (think upper deck Metrodome curtain with Kirby, Herby, and the gang, only wrapped all the away around the upper section).


I would say it would justify the extra space if you think about the economic impact it have on the city's businesses (didn't the Summit League Tourney have an economic impact of $2 Million?, which is a way smaller event compared to that of an NCAA Men's 1st/2nd round or regional); Especially if you consider these events would bring in a lot of "out of state" money that would not have been spent in the city without such an event.

Beyond being able to host these kind of events itself, the grow of the city needs to be taken into account as well. Sioux Falls and the surrounding towns have been growing at an exceptional rate over the past 20 years and are really showing no signs of slowing down, so why build an arena that the city may out grow in 20 years or less. Having foresight when building such structures is the difference between having a venue that lasts only 20 years to one that could last 50+ years.

maybe I'm wrong but unless there is a local team playing in one of those 1st or 2nd round games most of the games seem half full at best.... The question I think people have to ask themselves is how easy is it to get the first round tournament.... figure out first is it possible, second how much more it would cost to add the seats and then figure it out.... If its going to cost 10+ million to make it possible yet its nearly impossible to get the first rounds then does it make sense?

[MikeHenriksen]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Stu and I interviewed the one of the co-chairs of the task force today on Sports Web. It is available for replay at www.argusleader.com .

To sum up, downtown is pretty much out, and 15,000 seats is a "fluid" number. A BIG concern of theirs is conventions.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

I'm watching the video. Very disapointed to learn the dowtown is out as this was a great opportunity to change the landscape of downtown Sioux Falls and create a real gathering spot that would encourage new restaurants, clubs etc. I question the lack of intelligence gathered from Omaha and Des Moines locations.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

I'm watching the video. Very disapointed to learn the dowtown is out as this was a great opportunity to change the landscape of downtown Sioux Falls and create a real gathering spot that would encourage new restaurants, clubs etc. I question the lack of intelligence gathered from Omaha and Des Moines locations.

Well, I guess we disagree on this. I think a "lack of intelligence gathered" from those sites would have put the site downtown. I watched the interview, have read some of the info on the web site, and what Sioux Falls doesn't need is another facility that may need subsidies going forward. Economically what seems to be best is having one site for all the venues.

And no Zoo, pyschology has nothing to do with this, economics does.

[Jacks-02]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

I wonder if there is any consideration for moving The Birdcage downton and building a new events center on that site. Would be cool to have baseball downtown and would allow for outdoor concerts for Hot Summer Nights, Hot Harley Nights, etc. and would open up alot of space for a new arena while still keeping most of the parking at current site.

[MikeHenriksen]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Jacks-02: I would much rather see them move the baseball facility downtown rather than move Howard Wood. There is much more history associated with HW, and the $6.5 the school district would spend on it would turn it into a really outstanding, modern facility.

I see on KELO Mike Sullivan is saying that "everyone agrees" that moving HW is the answer. I think he is mistaken.

[filbert]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Jacks-02: I would much rather see them move the baseball facility downtown rather than move Howard Wood. There is much more history associated with HW, and the $6.5 the school district would spend on it would turn it into a really outstanding, modern facility.

I see on KELO Mike Sullivan is saying that "everyone agrees" that moving HW is the answer. I think he is mistaken.

The biggest downside of moving the baseball stadium and building a new arena in its place is, of course, you're building two new sports facilities rather than just one. Is there enough money floating around in Sioux Falls to do both, given the current economy?

[jacksfaninne]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

14,000 will NOT cut it for the NCAA in Men's Basketball, as the Qwest Center in Omaha had to expand from 15,500 capacity to over 17,000 to be able to host the first round games 2 years ago.

It's about more than seating capacity. Here in Lincoln, we haven't hosted a regional since the 80s, I believe. Partly because the Devaney Center only holds 13,600 for BB, but also because of a lack of hotel rooms. And not just rooms, but quality rooms near the venue. We've got a full-service Marriott, an Embassy Suites and a decent, newly renovated full-service Holiday Inn downtown, plus several other newer, decent hotels around town, and the NCAA says that's not sufficient. A Ramada ain't gonna cut it with the NCAA.

Heck, one of the reasons Omaha is building a downtown baseball stadium for the College World Series is because the NCAA wanted hotel rooms close to the stadium.

[Kemo]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Personally, I am in favor of a downtown site, but if that isn't feasible, why is the task force so insistent on putting it on the old Arena/Howard Wood site?

I'm not a city planner, engineer, or anything like that, but to me it seems that Sioux Falls has some really good, undeveloped/less developed land area in the triangular area east of I-229, south of I-90, and northwest of E. Rice St.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Si...:::::f:EN:M:/e

It seems to me that if the city bought land in this area they would have the opportunity to develop the access routes to and from the arena, which if done right, could really alleviate traffic congestion. Plus, people could get there fairly easy from nearly every part of the city, as they could easily take I-90 or I-229 to and from the arena with less congestion due to these roadways being "thru" streets (roads with no stop lights and has assess/off ramps).

Other pluses is that it is close enough to downtown that visitors would likely choose DT hotels, which would mean they still get the Sioux Falls downtown experience. Add a public transportations service (i.e. light rail) that makes getting to the arena from downtown even easier and that would almost assure success for both areas of town.

I know one of the concerns about building the arena away from the convention facilities at the Howard Wood site would make it less appealing?... but would it really? The primary concern most people have with the arena location seems to be traffic and parking related. If the arena and convention center were right next to each other, that would greatly increase congestion if both facilities had event going on at the same time.

Hopefully people here can critique this idea, as I know there are many factors involved in this, some (or many) of which I might not be aware of. It just seems to me that parking and traffic are the concerns of almost everyone I have talked to about SF building a new arena, and this site area I suggested, in my mind, seems to ease much of these concerns.

[JackrabbitGuy]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Jacks-02: I would much rather see them move the baseball facility downtown rather than move Howard Wood. There is much more history associated with HW, and the $6.5 the school district would spend on it would turn it into a really outstanding, modern facility.

I see on KELO Mike Sullivan is saying that "everyone agrees" that moving HW is the answer. I think he is mistaken.

Perhaps it was just spin, but I remember hearing Kelby Krabbenhoft saying that spending this $6.5 million on Howard Wood would not add any new features but would simply keep the stadium viable. According to him at least, this money wouldn't create an outstanding, modern facility.

I don't know the answer to that question, and I would suspect that his response is biased somewhat because he is a proponent of the new events center. But what if he's right? If a deal can be worked out between the city to leverage available land elsewhere in the city and share the cost of a Howard Wood replacement, I don't see a problem with that.