STU IS RIGHT THIS TIME

[Yote53]

Re: STU IS RIGHT THIS TIME

Sioux City Schools would be for this, shorter drive than Des Moines,Ames,Fort Dodge etc... Those Schools would like it even more.

No they wouldn't. The Sioux Falls schools abandon the SIC and left the Sioux City schools hanging out to dry. Since that time the Sioux City schools have made due by playing in the Missouri River Athletic Conference with the Council Bluffs Schools and are now involved in a district play arrangement that covers all of Western Iowa and includes some of the Des Moines Metro Schools.

SC West has had to play two games down in Des Moines, winning both, and now qualified for the state 4A playoffs at 2-7. Yes 2-7. Fortunately they will be cannon fodder for #1 ranked West Des Moines Dowling in the first round. SC East has also qualified for state with a much better record than West. SC North needs to win to get in. SC Heelan now plays in 3A and is ranked #1 in the state in that class having handled everyone in their district easily as well as easily beating the other 3 large SC schools. If they played in 4A they'd probably be a contender to win state in that class as well.

There is no way the Sioux City schools would entertain playing the Sioux Falls schools again. Sioux Falls screwed that up a long time ago. Doesn't matter anyway, Heelan and East would end up dominating that conference again and the Sioux Falls schools wouldn't want that. Ever wonder why the Sioux Falls schools didn't win state those first 25 years? Because they were playing in the SIC and routinely being beat down. Losing kills a program. Only after they left the SIC did the SF schools start winning state titles. It's because they quit being beat down and started having a winning culture.

[Nidaros]

Re: STU IS RIGHT THIS TIME

No they wouldn't. The Sioux Falls schools abandon the SIC and left the Sioux City schools hanging out to dry. Since that time the Sioux City schools have made due by playing in the Missouri River Athletic Conference with the Council Bluffs Schools and are now involved in a district play arrangement that covers all of Western Iowa and includes some of the Des Moines Metro Schools.

SC West has had to play two games down in Des Moines, winning both, and now qualified for the state 4A playoffs at 2-7. Yes 2-7. Fortunately they will be cannon fodder for #1 ranked West Des Moines Dowling in the first round. SC East has also qualified for state with a much better record than West. SC North needs to win to get in. SC Heelan now plays in 3A and is ranked #1 in the state in that class having handled everyone in their district easily as well as easily beating the other 3 large SC schools. If they played in 4A they'd probably be a contender to win state in that class as well.

There is no way the Sioux City schools would entertain playing the Sioux Falls schools again. Sioux Falls screwed that up a long time ago. Doesn't matter anyway, Heelan and East would end up dominating that conference again and the Sioux Falls schools wouldn't want that. Ever wonder why the Sioux Falls schools didn't win state those first 25 years? Because they were playing in the SIC and routinely being beat down. Losing kills a program. Only after they left the SIC did the SF schools start winning state titles. It's because they quit being beat down and started having a winning culture.

No one else has mentioned the Sioux City factor and Yote53 has explained a great deal about its affect on the Sioux Falls schools. It probably explains the Yankton and O'Gorman match ups which were big before but have not gotten much attention recently. Rpt points given

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: STU IS RIGHT THIS TIME

Hamlin has some unique problems: student numbers are strong but a significant percentage of the students do not participate in athletics for religious reasons.

So they petitioned to drop down?

I just looked at their enrollment numbers posted in the link above. 149 kids in high school and they are a 9B school. Miller is 9AA and has 132. Seems Hamlin should be a little higher than 9B.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: STU IS RIGHT THIS TIME

So they petitioned to drop down?

I just looked at their enrollment numbers posted in the link above. 149 kids in high school and they are a 9B school. Miller is 9AA and has 132. Seems Hamlin should be a little higher than 9B.

More than half of the enrollment is part of the religion that doesn't participate in sports. They were given a "religious" exception. Only eligible students (religious group are considered non-eligible) are figured into their enrollment numbers.

[Nidaros]

Re: STU IS RIGHT THIS TIME

More than half of the enrollment is part of the religion that doesn't participate in sports. They were given a "religious" exception. Only eligible students (religious group are considered non-eligible) are figured into their enrollment numbers.

We are talking about Little Finland, aka Lake Norden. I was aware of the Apostolic Faith, which came from Finland and the distrust of State Religion, namely Lutheran and this distrust apparently applies to football coaches. This following does not have ordained clergy as I underdstand. They had good reason to take this position, but that's another topic in itself. It goes back to the 18th and 19th centuries.

I did not know they had that many students in high school.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: STU IS RIGHT THIS TIME

We are talking about Little Finland, aka Lake Norden. I was aware of the Apostolic Faith, which came from Finland and the distrust of State Religion, namely Lutheran and this distrust apparently applies to football coaches. This following does not have ordained clergy as I underdstand. They had good reason to take this position, but that's another topic in itself. It goes back to the 18th and 19th centuries.

I did not know they had that many students in high school.

I graduated from Hamlin in '97 (won an 11-B state championship) and I had 60 in my class w/ 25% from this religion. Enrollment has stayed steady throughout the years but the % of kids from this religion has gone up to around 50% (give or take). Part of this religion is to have a big family. It is not uncommon to have 5-7 kids (or more) per family. Let's just say it is frustrating to say the least as Hamlin has a number of good-great athletes come out of the 4 communities.

Back on topic. Need to go back to 3 11-man divisions and 2 9-man divisions.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: STU IS RIGHT THIS TIME

More than half of the enrollment is part of the religion that doesn't participate in sports. They were given a "religious" exception. Only eligible students (religious group are considered non-eligible) are figured into their enrollment numbers.

Haven't students from this religion participated in sports in the past?

I played baseball up in the neck of the woods and have a little knowledge of the situation. I seem to remember that some of those students did participate in sports. It was rare though if I recall correctly.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: STU IS RIGHT THIS TIME

Haven't students from this religion participated in sports in the past?

I played baseball up in the neck of the woods and have a little knowledge of the situation. I seem to remember that some of those students did participate in sports. It was rare though if I recall correctly.

I can only speak from my days. Very rare for them to participate at the HS level. One of my good friends and also college roommate was in this religion. He did participate in sports but his dad was an "outsider" that married into the religion so their family had a different opinion of competitive sports. I think nowadays none of them participate, at least that is what the school is telling the SDHSAA when they have petitioned down.

[Yote53]

Re: STU IS RIGHT THIS TIME

No one else has mentioned the Sioux City factor and Yote53 has explained a great deal about its affect on the Sioux Falls schools. It probably explains the Yankton and O'Gorman match ups which were big before but have not gotten much attention recently. Rpt points given

Thanks Nidaros. I might have come off a little bitter about the Sioux Falls schools, it's because I am. I played in those SIC days and it was a good conference. I do have to give credit where it is due as O'Gorman had some pretty good years. The overall point is that once the SF Publics got out of the SIC their programs started to take off. Coincidence, I don't think so. Success breeds success and it's tough to build a program when the best you can hope for is 4th or 5th in the conference behind Heelan, East, O'Gorman, and sometimes SC West/North. Get out of that shadow and things started to happen for Washington and Lincoln.

Also, I read the Stu article and he is absolutely right. South Dakota needs to go to 5 classes, though I understand there are a lot of AD's with a lot of opposing viewpoints on this. They are each trying to look out for thier school's best interest, not SD HS football as a whole.

The biggest threat to high school football, however, is soccer. Vermillion used to be a class A power. They got a little bit better this past season but the bottom line is they don't have the athletes they need to provide program depth to compete. All you have to do is look across the football practice field at the soccer practice field on a fall afternoon to understand why Vermillion is no longer a football power. Too many good athletes playing a different sport. Oh, but Vermilion did go to state in boy's club soccer. Whoop-dee-do.

[jack power]

Re: STU IS RIGHT THIS TIME

No they wouldn't. The Sioux Falls schools abandon the SIC and left the Sioux City schools hanging out to dry. Since that time the Sioux City schools have made due by playing in the Missouri River Athletic Conference with the Council Bluffs Schools and are now involved in a district play arrangement that covers all of Western Iowa and includes some of the Des Moines Metro Schools.

SC West has had to play two games down in Des Moines, winning both, and now qualified for the state 4A playoffs at 2-7. Yes 2-7. Fortunately they will be cannon fodder for #1 ranked West Des Moines Dowling in the first round. SC East has also qualified for state with a much better record than West. SC North needs to win to get in. SC Heelan now plays in 3A and is ranked #1 in the state in that class having handled everyone in their district easily as well as easily beating the other 3 large SC schools. If they played in 4A they'd probably be a contender to win state in that class as well.

There is no way the Sioux City schools would entertain playing the Sioux Falls schools again. Sioux Falls screwed that up a long time ago. Doesn't matter anyway, Heelan and East would end up dominating that conference again and the Sioux Falls schools wouldn't want that. Ever wonder why the Sioux Falls schools didn't win state those first 25 years? Because they were playing in the SIC and routinely being beat down. Losing kills a program. Only after they left the SIC did the SF schools start winning state titles. It's because they quit being beat down and started having a winning culture.

You apparently know more about it than i do. I wasn't aware that Iowa 4A schools went to a division format. FWIW,i never thought Heelan would agree to play Sioux Falls schools again as they have the best of both worlds right now. They play at the 3A level but still play the 3 City schools.I would like to see Heelan play O'Gorman again. That was a great rivalry.

[Yote53]

Re: STU IS RIGHT THIS TIME

Yeah. In Iowa 4A the western half of the state went to district play (4 Districts) while the eastern half stayed with conferences. The 4 districts are District 1) WDM Valley, Urbandale, SC East, Indianola, DM Lincoln, CB Jefferson. District 2) Ames, Johnston, Ankeny, SC North, Ft Dodge, DSM North. District 3) WDM Dowling, Ankeny Centennial, Mason City, Ottumwa, DSM Hoover, Marshalltown. District 4) Waukee, SE Polk, CB Lincoln, SC West, DM Roosevelt, DSM East.

Notice how all the Sioux City Public schools are in differeent districts. This is great because this allows all 4 teams to qualify for state in different districts. In the old 4A of years ago it would be Heelan and East go to the playoffs, North and West stay home. Heelan and East square off in round 1, winner is the rep for all of western Iowa in 4A. Now Sioux City gets way more representation in 4A at the state level and there are no scheduling issues other than playing district games in Des Moines. I'd take that over the old system.

[TK22867]

Re: STU IS RIGHT THIS TIME

Yote53 - I had to log into my laptop just to respond to your post. Good to see another SIC brother on here! Brings back a lot of memories of trips to the Dakota Dome, Roberts Stadium, and Heelan Stadium. I was waiting for someone to respond about the possiblity of playing the Sioux City schools. You seem well versed in the conference. I do however, have a different view on few things as compared to yours.

From what I remember, the SF Schools had very little to do with the downfall of the SIC. Who was the culprit? You guessed it......those geniuses at the SDHSAA. The West River AA Schools (Douglas, Spearfish, Sturgis, RC Central & Stevens) were complaining heavily that they could not schedule any opponents. So in their infinite wisdom the SDHSAA pretty much put the ultimatum to the SF Schools to stop playing Sioux City schools or else. So then, instead of having competitive games with the SC schools, the SF schools bus out West River twice a year and except for a few abnormal years, kick the absolute crap out of those schools. Brilliant decision, and a great use of SD taxpayer money.

IMO, the SF public schools didn't get better because they were finally out of anyone's shadow. They got better because 1.) Open enrollment 2.) SF has grown in population, hence more kids and 3.) they finally figured out that football needed to be a year-round program, including off-season weight and speed training - something that OG had been doing for years.

You are darn tootin' OG had some good football teams. The 1988 team with Chad McConnell and the Salem Brothers was ranked nationally, if I recall correctly.

I also think the SF schools could compete just fine with East and Heelan. Speaking of which, talk about 2 great names...the "Black Raiders" and "Crusaders".

To the topic at hand, I graduated from that school that sits on the most valuable piece of property in Sioux Falls, and I pushed extremely hard for them to stay in class AA and win numerous state titles year after year, just to show the SDHSAA what a complete dumbass idea the AAA/AA system is. Didn't work out this year as we are really young and plagued with injuries, but it also goes to show that Pierre and other schools CAN compete with the SF schools.

I believe the AAA/AA class idea was the brainchild of the Aberdeen Central AD......who has since retired.

If you can't tell, I have ZERO faith that the SDHSAA will get this straightened out........Stu was referring to their complete ineptness in his article.

This one gets me fired up!

[JackJD]

Re: STU IS RIGHT THIS TIME

...The biggest threat to high school football, however, is soccer. Vermillion used to be a class A power. They got a little bit better this past season but the bottom line is they don't have the athletes they need to provide program depth to compete. All you have to do is look across the football practice field at the soccer practice field on a fall afternoon to understand why Vermillion is no longer a football power. Too many good athletes playing a different sport. Oh, but Vermilion did go to state in boy's club soccer. Whoop-dee-do.

I'm with you, Yote53. Soccer is a big threat to other sports, too, particularly cross country and track and field (seems soccer has at least four seasons, doesn't it?).

Is soccer the Asian Carp of sports?

Problem with soccer (hockey too) is it can end in a tie. Sheesh! That's a contest?

Oh boy! I'm one of eight co-captains of the soccer team.

Exception to all of the above: SDSU women's soccer. Go Jacks!

[Southeast]

Re: STU IS RIGHT THIS TIME

Is soccer the Asian Carp of sports?

Great analogy! Yes it is. Except, no one in SD is interested in soccer (unlike Asian carp).




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[jacks1]

Re: STU IS RIGHT THIS TIME

Great analogy! Yes it is. Except, no one in SD is interested in soccer (unlike Asian carp).

This couldn't be farther from the truth...