South Dakota High School Football Championships

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

Nope, how good a team plays has nothing to do with the city and how well it can run an tournament. I have no idea how you can connect the 2. If the purpose of the SDHSAA is to make money, its best bet is to be in SF. But if they are all in the same city that limits what SF can bring in for like I said an NCAA women’s session. So if the all championships are in SF that most likely eliminates SF availability to host other events. The idea of unintended consequences. It sounds great for the SDHSAA(make the most in SF)but hurts the towns that can probably appreciate that tax revenue also which the SDHSAA does not get but benefits the cities and state just the same. So the city and state actually might lose an event because of maximizing profits for 1 organization that don’t have to be centrally located. So the SDHSAA might not make as much, but hosting tournaments in Rapid City, Brookings and Aberdeen helps generate money for those cities that otherwise miss out which benefits the state but does not maximize profit for the SDHSAA. With the Tournaments rotating that allows SF to possibly fill an event that otherwise would not happen in one central location. So if you prefer the SDHSAA making the most or the state and cities maximizing the most, I guess it depends on what you prefer. That is in regards to the idea of moving basketball etc for all classes to SF.

For football, some cities field competitive teams more than others. Out of all the state titles that have been won at the highest level, Besides OG no SF school was even relevant until the last 10 years. Before that they were not factors even though they had more players and bigger teams etc so when the playoffs started SF was not really a major player. Times changed but I don’t see how having an extra class helps anyone. What happens when SF builds a new high school or two and the attendance and athletes SF has gets spread around to 2 more schools? My guess is that could and should happen sooner than later anyway. But LHS WHS RHS will lose students and Athlete eventually which keeps the competitive balance in order.

I'm not connecting the two. I'm saying you are using whichever standard fits your argument. We can agree to disagree, I guess.

Tell me more about how Sioux Falls wasn't a factor in football when it had a population of 80,000...

Sioux Falls is a way different town than it was 20 years ago when football was on a level playing field. A population the size of Rapid City has been added to Sioux Falls in the last 20 years. But its not just about numbers. Sioux Falls kids have more opportunities for improving and making themselves better, that's just a fact.

Sioux Falls isn't building another High School anytime soon, much less two. If Sioux Falls added another public high school tomorrow, each of the 4 in town would average over 1100 per high school. That's still 300 more than Watertown, 400 more than Yankton, and double Brookings.

[goon]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

I'm not connecting the two. I'm saying you are using whichever standard fits your argument. We can agree to disagree, I guess.

Tell me more about how Sioux Falls wasn't a factor in football when it had a population of 80,000...

Sioux Falls is a way different town than it was 20 years ago when football was on a level playing field. A population the size of Rapid City has been added to Sioux Falls in the last 20 years. But its not just about numbers. Sioux Falls kids have more opportunities for improving and making themselves better, that's just a fact.

Sioux Falls isn't building another High School anytime soon, much less two. If Sioux Falls added another public high school tomorrow, each of the 4 in town would average over 1100 per high school. That's still 300 more than Watertown, 400 more than Yankton, and double Brookings.

I guess you can look at it how you want. I think there are benefits to having an rotating tournement site. If you support the position of the SDHSAA then you probably will want SF to be it. I guess you can look at it how you want. A couple years ago Aberdeen played in the Championship game when I was in high school WHS was the biggest school in the state and struggled with Yankton and Watertown. If school size matters why arent the RApid city schools any good? There is a lot more to it then just school size and training programs.

So basically a SF school will always win a state title. but now Mitchell and Yankton can finally play and get some participation trophies now.

The High schools in SF have been built onto as much as possible, They will in a few years need to build another one. SF population cant grow without the school district keeping up its rediculous to think then can absorb more students with out more schools built. either way the landscape for high school football changes constantly. In 3 years do we add a 9 man E class so towns with only 12 guys on the team can finally compete for a state title? It might not seem fair that SF has gotten better but I will bet money that 2 ESD school will win a title before all 4 SF win another title. Its all about the kids and there are kids from all over the state and really only a couple kids can make a huge difference. WHS pumped out several D-1 football players but there are kids from all over who are great athletes.

Look at school size for basketball? OG is the only one winning state titles right now but look who was and proabbly will be looking to win the next year or two. not a SF school. Who won the girls bball? Not a SF school. Not sure why smaller towns think SF only has an unfair advantage in Football.

[goon]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

my math might be wrong a little but a quick look at it this is the way I see it.

Since playoffs began in its present form 1981. SF schools have played in and won 14 titles. SF schools have also lost the championship game 12 times. So 26 teams have been in the finals since 1981. Since that time 17 schools from out of SF have won the AA title and have lost the title 19 times. So that 36 non SF schools have played in championship games. since 2004 14 of those 26 championship games were played by SF schools. So its been less then 10 years of SF really dominating 11AA football. Before 2004 only SF Washington has even played in a championship game losing both times. OG has won 6 titles and lost 4 before 2004. SF has won the last 8 titles, so for 31 years of playoffs SF was rarely a factor. A 10 year stretch a SF school didn’t win a title from mid 90s but I don’t recall the SF complaining it was unfair from the ESD school etc…..

But apparently smaller school can still compete in wrestling and basketball and other sports since SF has not dominated those sports.

I am pretty sure for most of those years SF was the biggest city and the schools still had the largest populations of students. Maybe it was a bit closer before but the last 8 years is all SF has really accomplished, a 10 year stretch before that they were not even relevnt and SF was pretty good sized in the mid 90s still.


Year Team Champion Runner-Up

2011 SF Roosevelt SF Washington
2010 SF wasington OG
2009
11-AA SF Washington - 27 Aberdeen Central - 10
2008
11-AA Sioux Falls Lincoln - 27 Sioux Falls Washington - 20
2007
11-AA Sioux Falls Roosevelt - 28 Sioux Falls Washington - 24
2006
11-AA Sioux Falls Roosevelt - 28 Sioux Falls O'Gorman - 21
2005
11-AA SF O'Gorman - 42 Yankton - 7
2004
11-AA SF O'Gorman - 14 SF Roosevelt - 7
2003
11-AA Spearfish - 21 Aberdeen Central - 7
2002
11-AA Yankton - 35 SF Washington - 14
2001
11-AA Watertown - 18 Brookings - 10
2000
11-AA Brookings - 21 Aberdeen Central - 14
1999
11-AA Yankton - 28 SF O'Gorman - 23
1998
11-AA* Brandon Valley - 28 Brookings - 21
1997
11-AA Spearfish - 20 Brandon Valley - 14
1996
11-AA Watertown - 34 Yankton - 6
1995
11-AA Yankton - 20 Brandon Valley - 14
1994
11-AA** Yankton - 34 RC Stevens - 31
1993
11-AA SF O'Gorman - 21 Mitchell - 6
1992
11-AA Huron - 30 Watertown - 0
1991
11-AA SF O'Gorman - 28 Huron - 0
1990
11-AA Brandon Valley - 28 SF O'Gorman - 7
1989
11-AA Brandon Valley - 10 Yankton - 7
1988
11-AA SF O'Gorman - 44 Pierre - 6
1987
11-AA RC Stevens - 3 Washington - 0
1986 OG Mitchell
1985
11-AA SF O'Gorman - 16 Yankton - 0
1984
11-AA Yankton - 30 SF O'Gorman - 22
1983
11-AA Brookings - 23 Sturgis - 8
1982
11-AA Yankton - 10 SF O'Gorman - 6
1981
11-AA SF O'Gorman - 12 Yankton - 3

[joeboo22]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

Sioux Falls was not that great at football for a long time, seemed like the last 5-10 years they have really succeeded. Now yes some of that is growth in those schools, and decline at the other 11-AA schools, but some of it I think is just a phase at the SF schools being better, and the other schools being worse. Rapid City which has similar numbers hasn't been to a State Championship in an eternity. And Spearfish (which was the smallest 11-AA school) won 2 since the last time a Rapid City (AA) school has even been to a state championship.

What bothers me though, is that the 9 man schools get attacked when the state wants to add another (11 man class). Do some 9 man schools need to co-op? yes, but I'd argue some 11 man schools need to toughen up and quit complaining.

As far as Sioux Falls hosting all state tournaments, I don't like it. I also don't like having boys and girls on the same weekend either. I guess I really don't see what is wrong with it now. I would like to see the 2 state wrestling tournaments at 1 place. for basketball maybe have A's and AA's at 1 place. Could also try to have them rotate between RC and SF. Maybe 2 years in SF for basketball and then 1 in RC and vice versa for wrestling. Don't like having all 3 though. also don't like spreading it out over 3 weeks. would get to long, and hurt scheduling between A's and B's.

[CatchEmAll]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

SD should do what Minnesota is implementing for football...take the top 32 schools by enrollment and there's your top class....wait, whoops, that would be all of the 11 man schools in the state. Sorry. Gotta pay better attention.

So I haven't read all of this, but there are now 8 teams in the top 11 man class, correct. So how does regular season scheduling work then. Are they still playing the smaller schools during the regular season and then pairing off in in the State tournament. I understand population is a huge issue, but seriously, 7 classes. I can see splitting off the top tier of schools, but then limit it to two smaller 11 man and 2 nine man classes and be done at 5 State Champions.

[RabbitNation]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

The reason why Sioux Falls has started to dominate the Championships IMO comes down to SD Junior Football League and Acceleration programs and other advantages that are only in Sioux Falls and the athletes tend to specialize in a Single Sport and work on it year around. Small Communities with great athletes play all sports.

Boys are starting in the 3rd grade and compete against the best at those ages for 6 years before reaching high school. Here are the schools outside of SF that dominate in Junior football: Emery-Ethan, West Central, Canistota over the last 6 years. BTW, how many State Championships have they won over the last 10 years? Side note (not sure why Harrisburg is not better or Brandon Valley) These small towns have the same teams and players for 6 years before starting High School what an advantage living so close to Sioux Falls and being able to take part in the things mentioned above.

Eliminate one nine man class would have no effect of anyone. Most of the 9-man teams play against teams from all three 9-man classes in their own conference. Do you really think a 9B team thinks they can't beat a 9AA team? Probably not. But I would think a 11B team or 11A teams feel they can beat each other, but would feel they have no chance against the 11AA and now 11AAA.

Eliminate a 9-man class and have two and eliminate the 11B and have 3 11-man classes. Nine man needs to stay in these small towns, because it is the only game in town.


BTW, I live in Sioux Falls!

[Nidaros]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

One thing that seems to escape discussion of the football and SF schools and that is open enrollment. Does open enrollment play a part in where certain athletes attend? Do they always attend the school in the area in which their parents reside? Would some one residing along east 26th ST allow their student athlete son to attend Roosvelt which would mean a ride across town in heavy traffic every day of the week.
I have a notion that open enrollment does play a part especially if you know you dont have enough talent to make the team at Roosvelt, you might try it at Lincoln or Washington.

Lastly, the state legislature passed a law this past session limiting open enrollement after certain days in the school year. Seems on the surface, this law might have something to do with loading up with athletes or maybe there were many other considerations.

[witness]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

One thing that seems to escape discussion of the football and SF schools and that is open enrollment. Does open enrollment play a part in where certain athletes attend? Do they always attend the school in the area in which their parents reside? Would some one residing along east 26th ST allow their student athlete son to attend Roosvelt which would mean a ride across town in heavy traffic every day of the week.
I have a notion that open enrollment does play a part especially if you know you dont have enough talent to make the team at Roosvelt, you might try it at Lincoln or Washington.

Lastly, the state legislature passed a law this past session limiting open enrollement after certain days in the school year. Seems on the surface, this law might have something to do with loading up with athletes or maybe there were many other considerations.

Open enrollment is one of the main reason IMO. Esp. in football and basketball kids will move to Sioux Falls. Personally, I don't think its any different than recruiting but whatever. Another thing is students that already live in Sioux Falls will transfer to another Sioux Falls school from year to year. Its mainly the Sioux Falls schools for football and basketball and Sturgis for wrestling.

[leeshajo]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

Lastly, the state legislature passed a law this past session limiting open enrollement after certain days in the school year. Seems on the surface, this law might have something to do with loading up with athletes or maybe there were many other considerations.

More likely has to do with the fact that funding for the school year is set based on the enrollment at a school on the last day of September.

An example would be... Say Yankton has 2400 student on Sept. 30. On October 1, five kids want to open-enroll from Gayville-Volin. For the next school year, GV would get the per-student factor of I think $4200, not including the small school factor which I think brings it up closer to $4800 per student. So for a year GV would get more than $21K of dollars to spend that YSD would not, while not having to provide education to those students. At the same time YHS would be educating the students and not getting paid to do so.

Sad thing, in Yankton right now the students are going the other way... GV is getting about 30 open enrolls from YSD.

[jackrabit1]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

First, the State adds a seventh football class.

Then there was discussion about moving all State Basketball, Volleyball and Wrestling tournaments to Sioux Falls.

And now the Sioux Falls School District wants to charge Radio and TV stations and papers for broadcasting their high school games.

I think South Dakota High School Sports is suffering from a case of the "Stupids" this week.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

First, the State adds a seventh football class.

Then there was discussion about moving all State Basketball, Volleyball and Wrestling tournaments to Sioux Falls.

And now the Sioux Falls School District wants to charge Radio and TV stations and papers for broadcasting their high school games.

I think South Dakota High School Sports is suffering from a case of the "Stupids" this week.

I'm sure your comments are somewhat made in jest, but the people making these decisions have all the facts and figures.

We can argue back and forth all day, but the fact is, we probably only know a fraction of the factors that played into each of these situations.

The football class and tournaments have been discussed at length.

Is it possible the school district has a plan to, you know, be in control of the live streaming of their own property and profit from it? I've only heard about charging for streaming, nothing about radio or newspaper coverage.

Its pretty silly to call things stupid that we actually know very little about. But I guess that's what the internet is for.

[jackrabit1]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

Seeing as my career is in sports, specifically covering South Dakota High School Sports, I'm pretty confident in my opinion.

[joeboo22]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

I'm sure your comments are somewhat made in jest, but the people making these decisions have all the facts and figures.

We can argue back and forth all day, but the fact is, we probably only know a fraction of the factors that played into each of these situations.

The football class and tournaments have been discussed at length.

Is it possible the school district has a plan to, you know, be in control of the live streaming of their own property and profit from it? I've only heard about charging for streaming, nothing about radio or newspaper coverage.

Its pretty silly to call things stupid that we actually know very little about. But I guess that's what the internet is for.

Here is what happened.

1. After a year of complaining from smaller AA schools (Yankton was loud and center, but Mitchell, Pierre and others weren't knocking the idea), and seeing the success Spearfish had at the A level after being a pushover in AA's. they complained more and got the State to ok a 7th class.

2. Some people care more about $, then anything else, and want SF to have all 3 tournaments (again its led by the big boys, because they are the only ones that don't support their tournament unless its in Sioux Falls). B's is sold out or near sold out every year in Aberdeen. A's is not a ton different in RC then in SF, but the AA's has a large drop from Sioux Falls to Rapid City.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

Seeing as my career is in sports, specifically covering South Dakota High School Sports, I'm pretty confident in my opinion.

Yep, I knew that. You can be confident, it doesn't make you right though - sometimes even journalists don't have all the information. Pretty sure the coffee shop experts across South Dakota are confident in each of their opinions, too. Just to be clear, I'm not saying that I am right or that you are wrong, just that we don't have enough information to say anything with certainty.

I don't mean to be a prick, but don't you think covering sports makes you a little biased? From the sounds of a KELO report, SFSD is hardly the first school district in America to talk about doing this.

Interesting how the school brings this up so soon after the Argus charges for their online content. So its okay for the Argus to make money from streaming, but not for the school district? Makes perfect sense to me.

[bigticket1]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

Yep, I knew that. You can be confident, it doesn't make you right though - sometimes even journalists don't have all the information. Pretty sure the coffee shop experts across South Dakota are confident in each of their opinions, too. Just to be clear, I'm not saying that I am right or that you are wrong, just that we don't have enough information to say anything with certainty.

I don't mean to be a prick, but don't you think covering sports makes you a little biased? From the sounds of a KELO report, SFSD is hardly the first school district in America to talk about doing this.

Interesting how the school brings this up so soon after the Argus charges for their online content. So its okay for the Argus to make money from streaming, but not for the school district? Makes perfect sense to me.

The Argus doesn't get tax dollars from taxpayers to pay for their reporters and other expenses like school districts do to pay for teachers/coaches and other expenses for fielding sports teams such as travel etc...