South Dakota High School Football Championships

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

Yep I am from the big city and appartently am not allowd to talk about small towns. The issue is its a business and if there is an issue with being competitive its not that the big schools are getting better but small towns are lossing kids. Flat out just not enough to compete. We should be eliminating claases not making more. Why not make a 8 or 9 class so all those school who consolidtaed can break apart and have their own class ans teams again. Then everybody can feel good about it.

This topic is about all classes and effects all citys so why don't you save your small town attitude like you guys are the only ones allowed to talk about it. Having every small town with its own struggling program helps nobody. Shore up the compititon and eliminate a class fixes a lot of problems the sdhaa is dealing with. You might not like it thas fine but it imo the truth that needs to be looked at.

How many acceleration programs, indoor facilities, trainers, coaches, clubs, fundraiser capabilities, etc does Sioux Falls have compared to Huron? There are talented and quality kids in every SD town, but for football it is virtually impossible to compete for titles against 5 schools with so many more opportunities. That's reality. We can all talk about working harder, getting better, and the dream team from 15 years ago, but the fact is it isn't a level playing field.

Goon, you certainly have an interesting opinion on this.

On the one hand, you want to throw smaller communities into consolidation because they aren't able to compete. On the other, smaller towns should be allowed to host tournaments even if they are less suited to do so.

If the SDHSAA chooses to play all tournaments in Sioux Falls and can make more money and provide a better experience for student athletes, coaches, schools, and fans, why would anyone be against that? I guarantee 3 boys and girls state tournaments in Sioux Falls would generate more money than Women's NCAA first round games, especially if SDSU wasn't in the tournament.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

But this is a thread about the ridiculousness of seven football classes in SD, right? Why, exactly, are there THREE nine-man classes? There are THAT many schools with less than 112 students that it really makes a difference? (If the answer to that is "yes" then that's an entirely different problem.)

I get, I guess, why a 450-student school might not be real happy about trying to compete with a 1600-student school, but wouldn't a better solution would be to simply let schools self-select which level of competition they choose to attempt? Seems to work pretty well in college athletics. Require the biggest eight to play in the upper class, require the smallest sixteen (or pick a number) to play in the lower class, then let everybody in the top half of whoever's left in the middle decide to play in the middle class or to move up, as their resources and ego allow/require.

Problem solved, without the ludicrous addition of a fourth 11-man class.

SF O'Gorman is going to petition up to play in the highest class.

[MikeHenriksen]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

Hundreds of thousands of people in South Dakota never won a title in anything, and yet still turned into happy, productive adults. And part of their success is because of the values they learned and the opportunities they had from participating in athletics and activities. That includes learning how to lose.

Take the Mitchell football team from this past fall. I applaud that team for what they accomplished! You do not need to win a title to be memorable.

[propar80]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

Yep I am from the big city and appartently am not allowd to talk about small towns. The issue is its a business and if there is an issue with being competitive its not that the big schools are getting better but small towns are lossing kids. Flat out just not enough to compete. We should be eliminating claases not making more. Why not make a 8 or 9 class so all those school who consolidtaed can break apart and have their own class ans teams again. Then everybody can feel good about it.

This topic is about all classes and effects all citys so why don't you save your small town attitude like you guys are the only ones allowed to talk about it. Having every small town with its own struggling program helps nobody. Shore up the compititon and eliminate a class fixes a lot of problems the sdhaa is dealing with. You might not like it thas fine but it imo the truth that needs to be looked at.

Exactly the response I expected.
Where did I say I thought, or anyone in small towns thought, there needed to be more classes in football? Isn't 11-AAA for the "Big Schools", so in turn isn't it the "Big Schools" that created the problem of to many classes, by wanting to create a 4th 11-man class? Let's see...there's 3 nine man classes and 4 11-man classes, so shouldn't 1 11-man class be eliminated then?
If you want my opinion on this issue, I have always said that the SDHSAA should give the state of SD 5 years tell all school districts there will be no 9-man football and just have 4-5 11-man classes. This would force consolidation of football teams to be able to play 11-man. Extreme, yes I know...especially for a person from a "small town".

The problem that I had with your comment was the same problem I have with anyone who has never "lived" in a small town, that loves to sit around and pontificate to the citizen's of small SD towns what's best for them. This is why there is such a anti-SF sediment in this state(which I think it competely stupid and off-base), and comment's like yours just feed those feelings...right or wrong.

Go Jacks!!

[Theee Catrabbit]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

SF O'Gorman is going to petition up to play in the highest class.

When you can recruit players from anywhere, why wouldn't you? Can't recruit if you say "Look at us we're at Tier2 competition for the state."

I guess what I don't understand is if O'Gorman petitions up, why does Brandon Valley automatically have to acquiesce to go to the lower division? What if Brandon Valley preferred to stay at the highest level? Why should a petitioning school get to dictate to the school who already is at the proper criteria?

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

When you can recruit players from anywhere, why wouldn't you? Can't recruit if you say "Look at us we're at Tier2 competition for the state."

I guess what I don't understand is if O'Gorman petitions up, why does Brandon Valley automatically have to acquiesce to go to the lower division? What if Brandon Valley preferred to stay at the highest level? Why should a petitioning school get to dictate to the school who already is at the proper criteria?

From my understanding if O'Gorman petitions up and BV falls down, they can also petition to go back up (then the next one in line goes down; I don't know what would happen if everyone petitioned up if they would go w/ 9 schools in the upper division).

[Theee Catrabbit]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

Umm because if Sioux falls wants to host a womens ncaa tourney session it probably needs the SF sports athority to make that happen. So if girls and boys all classes are in sf I would imahine that would create some major conflicts. If all classes play in SF kiss good by ever hosting an ncaa event ever.

That is correct. But...the amount of money generated for all state championships to be held in SF vs the amount to be made for a TOurnament are night and day for the city. Sorry, much as I'd want it, the city stands to gain the most from all tourneys in SF. The Summit Leagues tourney doesn't even fill all the hotels in SF. That's 8 teams, the tourney would be only 4. Your economic impact is significantly less than whole towns of people descending on SF to shop, eat and drink for a few days.

[filbert]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

When you can recruit players from anywhere, why wouldn't you? Can't recruit if you say "Look at us we're at Tier2 competition for the state."

I guess what I don't understand is if O'Gorman petitions up, why does Brandon Valley automatically have to acquiesce to go to the lower division? What if Brandon Valley preferred to stay at the highest level? Why should a petitioning school get to dictate to the school who already is at the proper criteria?

They don't. The proposal is that BV MAY go down a class, not that they have to.

[goon]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

Exactly the response I expected.
Where did I say I thought, or anyone in small towns thought, there needed to be more classes in football? Isn't 11-AAA for the "Big Schools", so in turn isn't it the "Big Schools" that created the problem of to many classes, by wanting to create a 4th 11-man class? Let's see...there's 3 nine man classes and 4 11-man classes, so shouldn't 1 11-man class be eliminated then?
If you want my opinion on this issue, I have always said that the SDHSAA should give the state of SD 5 years tell all school districts there will be no 9-man football and just have 4-5 11-man classes. This would force consolidation of football teams to be able to play 11-man. Extreme, yes I know...especially for a person from a "small town".

The problem that I had with your comment was the same problem I have with anyone who has never "lived" in a small town, that loves to sit around and pontificate to the citizen's of small SD towns what's best for them. This is why there is such a anti-SF sediment in this state(which I think it competely stupid and off-base), and comment's like yours just feed those feelings...right or wrong.

Go Jacks!!

So like I said apparently if I didn’t live in a small town I can’t have an opinion on it. The extra 11 man class is because a lot of smaller 11 man teams maybe esd teams were crabby because they couldn’t compete, so what I think is if small districts around it doesn’t just have to be 9 man teams but say if Mitchell wanted to be more competitive, consolidate its program with Ethan. Just an example, not saying that should be the case. But if smaller schools can’t compete why does it make sense to let the biggest schools separate themselves even more. So SF should have its own class and the rest of the state gets 6? That still sounds crazy to me.

Where did I say what’s best for small towns? I just said if small schools can’t compete, to make them more competitive which is what the whole reason for an extra class is, is to consolidate programs so it makes more competitive. I agree the state should get rid of 9 man altogether. I know it’s been around a long time, but really if you can’t create a team to play 11, maybe it’s time to join forces.

[goon]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

That is correct. But...the amount of money generated for all state championships to be held in SF vs the amount to be made for a TOurnament are night and day for the city. Sorry, much as I'd want it, the city stands to gain the most from all tourneys in SF. The Summit Leagues tourney doesn't even fill all the hotels in SF. That's 8 teams, the tourney would be only 4. Your economic impact is significantly less than whole towns of people descending on SF to shop, eat and drink for a few days.

I guess I look at that the state has a chance to bring in an NCAA event with the new EC. the city can probably benfit more from all sports in one city, but the rest of the state will feel the impact IMO, I am sure Aberdeen and RC enjoy the fans coming to the tourneys when they get to host. But if Sf has all the high school sports, that elimnates the other cities from getting revenue, and SF could still host IMO one or 2 tourneyes along with the NCAA womens session, which I think would be a win win for everyone. Sure if I want sioux falls to benefit the most bring all the HS sport tourneys here, but I look at the big picture and IMO the exposure and chance that SDSU or the summit league team could play in SF would be great the city still along with the chance to give the summit or SDSU a chance to get further in the tourney giving the Summit home court advantage for once.

If UMKC was the auto bid and SF was hosting a session where we could have UMKC play here, I would imagine many would like the chace to represent the Summit League even if it wasnt SDSU, but whats good for the summit in the long run is good for the SDSU.

[goon]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

Goon, you certainly have an interesting opinion on this.

On the one hand, you want to throw smaller communities into consolidation because they aren't able to compete. On the other, smaller towns should be allowed to host tournaments even if they are less suited to do so.

I guess I see a difference in how competitive a school is and how well a town can run a 8 or 16 team tourney over a few days.

Benefiting SF is great for SF but there are a lot of other towns who I would guess feel they are pretty good and able to host still. I understand its a business, but tying all of SF facilities up limits what SF can do but takes away from other cities getting the benefit of hosting tourneys also.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

I guess I see a difference in how competitive a school is and how well a town can run a 8 or 16 team tourney over a few days.

Benefiting SF is great for SF but there are a lot of other towns who I would guess feel they are pretty good and able to host still. I understand its a business, but tying all of SF facilities up limits what SF can do but takes away from other cities getting the benefit of hosting tourneys also.

Sorry, I still see contradiction.

On the one hand you are arguing for efficient centralization for maximum output and benefit. On the other, you are arguing for decentralization and reduced output and benefit.

[GopherHole]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

Sorry, I still see contradiction.

On the one hand you are arguing for efficient centralization for maximum output and benefit. On the other, you are arguing for decentralization and reduced output and benefit.

Did you ever study economics with Rocky? Or are you a relatively new graduate?

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

I'm going to go on a bit of a cultural rant:

Since when did competing mean winning championships? Some have ragged on SDSU football teams for not being competitive the last couple years. I understand .500 in football isn't where we want to be, but by definition, that is competing. Winning conference and national championships is excelling.

Suppose you had a MVFC in which 6 of the 9 teams were over .500 in conference play (like this year). I would say that league is very competitive, with some competitive teams in it (including SDSU). That's right, SDSU was competitive this year, folks. However, some of our fans expect the team to magically become dominant within that league of very competitive teams and challenge for a conference title every year. Its ridiculous.

On the high school line of thought, is it reasonable to think that Brookings, Watertown, Yankton, or Mitchell can compete against the Sioux Falls schools? How many wins did Mitchell, Yankton, Brookings, and Pierre have agains the 4 Sioux Falls schools this year? How many the last 5 years? Do any of those schools have a winning record against one Sioux Falls school in the last 10 years? I suspect the answer to these questions is why there is a new class of football.

Imagine you are the athletic director at a school like Brookings (5-4), Mitchell (7-2), or Yankton (6-3). You just had a winning season. But parents are DEMANDING titles, competing and even winning aren't enough. People talk about how your coach is a great guy and a decent coach, but to get to the next level you are going to have to bring in someone new. You know deep down it isn't a level playing field, the Sioux Falls schools have more kids, more resources, and more off season opportunities. What do you do?

I love how people talk about the smaller AA schools just need to get better and try harder. Mitchell was 7-2 this year! They were good, and they tried hard. But it would have been a miracle if they had somehow gone through 3 Sioux Falls schools to win a state title. Sure it could happen once in awhile, but its not likely. That's the reality. Arguing otherwise is just nostalgia for the way things were.

If my memory serves me right, this move wasn't pushed by the SF schools, but by athletic directors at Brookings, Yankton, Watertown, etc.

[goon]

Re: South Dakota High School Football Championships

Sorry, I still see contradiction.

On the one hand you are arguing for efficient centralization for maximum output and benefit. On the other, you are arguing for decentralization and reduced output and benefit.

Nope, how good a team plays has nothing to do with the city and how well it can run an tournament. I have no idea how you can connect the 2. If the purpose of the SDHSAA is to make money, its best bet is to be in SF. But if they are all in the same city that limits what SF can bring in for like I said an NCAA women’s session. So if the all championships are in SF that most likely eliminates SF availability to host other events. The idea of unintended consequences. It sounds great for the SDHSAA(make the most in SF)but hurts the towns that can probably appreciate that tax revenue also which the SDHSAA does not get but benefits the cities and state just the same. So the city and state actually might lose an event because of maximizing profits for 1 organization that don’t have to be centrally located. So the SDHSAA might not make as much, but hosting tournaments in Rapid City, Brookings and Aberdeen helps generate money for those cities that otherwise miss out which benefits the state but does not maximize profit for the SDHSAA. With the Tournaments rotating that allows SF to possibly fill an event that otherwise would not happen in one central location. So if you prefer the SDHSAA making the most or the state and cities maximizing the most, I guess it depends on what you prefer. That is in regards to the idea of moving basketball etc for all classes to SF.

For football, some cities field competitive teams more than others. Out of all the state titles that have been won at the highest level, Besides OG no SF school was even relevant until the last 10 years. Before that they were not factors even though they had more players and bigger teams etc so when the playoffs started SF was not really a major player. Times changed but I don’t see how having an extra class helps anyone. What happens when SF builds a new high school or two and the attendance and athletes SF has gets spread around to 2 more schools? My guess is that could and should happen sooner than later anyway. But LHS WHS RHS will lose students and Athlete eventually which keeps the competitive balance in order.