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bigjake
10-01-2005, 07:45 PM
Congrats to Mav1 for attaining top 15 status for Rabbit posters on this board. You have brought humor, insight, and consistency to this board that has made it a more active and interesting place. You should be proud of this accomplishment. I am still working on attaining junior status and you are in the top 15. You are the man. Nice work.
How about those Mavs today? Almost a record setting performance in scoring. We are back!!

89rabbit
10-01-2005, 08:24 PM
How about those Mavs today? Almost a record setting performance in scoring. We are back!!


Just wanted to give you Mavs some props, you did almost as well as Augie did against USD. You tell your team to keep working I am sure they can get to Augie's level.

USD 59 - UN0 14

USD 48 - Augie 17

Best of luck to UNO with your D-II ambitions, and best of luck getting enough fans together someday, that care enough about UNO, to have your own fan board.

Go State! ;D

Mavericks#1
10-02-2005, 01:05 AM
Thanks for the props Big Jake. Noticed the SDSU equestrian ::) ::) team lost their first dual to add to the losing teams that SDSU has. I am sure their fans will have some excuse for the loss, like we don't have as many schollies as some of these other schools or our horses had an off day or something like that. Thank goodness for Valpo or this football team might not get a 1AA win. Good thing they scheduled Mo. Rolla or they might not get another win. But, hey they can always hang their hat on that new fancy scoreboard ::) ::). ETA before JBNJBQ post some stupid picture smack 7 hours and counting.


Mavs#1

Coyote_Fan
10-02-2005, 02:07 AM
It looks like the Jacks still have not beat a good opponent this year. It looks like another 6-5 year which will be one of a long list of mediocre seasons in Jackrabbit football history.

The only saving grace for Jackrabbit fans is that they don't have to face USD this year and get completely embarassed on the field. SDSU can hang their hat on that one. At least they won't lose to "South Dakota's Team".

SDSUFAN
10-02-2005, 04:31 AM
YA Right!!!!!!!!! :-[ Wait until USD faces UND, they dont have a chance and all this hot shot offense will be put in its perspective. Logan who?????

jackrabbit1979
10-02-2005, 08:36 AM
It looks like the Jacks still have not beat a good opponent this year. It looks like another 6-5 year which will be one of a long list of mediocre seasons in Jackrabbit football history.

The only saving grace for Jackrabbit fans is that they don't have to face USD this year and get completely embarassed on the field. SDSU can hang their hat on that one. At least they won't lose to "South Dakota's Team".

I never thought i would see the day when a USD fan would be talking smack about State's 6-5 mediocre teams. Oh how quickly one good start to a season makes them forget how many years in a row USD has been our little b**ch on the football field. There were a lot of those 6-5 years when we still smashed USD either at the dome or coughlin. We just didn't hang our whole season on that one game like USD did.

Its pretty sad that the U is undefeated this year, they play the number four team in the nation who only is 2 hours from their field and thier "new rival" in Sioux Falls the heart of South Dakota for "South Dakota's Team" and they stil can't draw more than 9000 fans. I feel bad for those coyote fans who can't come out for that one game a season against State and feel like they are coyote supporters. Their life must feel so empty...obviously it is they are on our fan board and on their fan board (d2football.com) talking smack about us.

Best of luck to USD the rest of the season, make SD proud, but then remember to be a little humble about it.

bigjake
10-02-2005, 09:00 AM
I am suprised that a lot of people are running that much smack against the jacks fb team. I think the fb team will ultimately succeed when they get their full compliment of scholarships. I suspect you will go 5-6 with victories over rolla, so utah, and northern colorado. That is an avg season. But earlier when I was reading predictions of 8-3 and 9-2 on this board I thought that was way over the top. Kind of like me saying pat behrns will lead uno to a d2 championship. Will never happen with his knuckleheaded play calling. I would love to see sdsu go 6-5 and beat those fans who think their fb team is some kind of dynasty (ndsu). That would be really funny to see that little trophy you play for stay in SD 2 straight years. I am always for sdsu against ndsu if for no other reason than craig bohl ruined our defense down in lincoln a few years ago. That guy was the classic case of an "empty suit".
Also, agree with jackrabbit79 about usd fans. I was wearing a uno hat and after the game several usd fans were "woofing it up" at us about how it is a new era, etc and this is payback time, etc. Give me a break - 1 time in 10 years does not make a trend.
Despite thinking your fb team will do ok I am still convinced that you men's bb team (whichis your make or break sport) will not do well now or in the future. Prediction - when I go to see you play the huskers in lincoln you will get beat by 25 unless the huskers get bored. We shall see.

Rabbitden
10-02-2005, 05:01 PM
Nice to hear you say that bigjake. Remember one thing about the BIG RED MACHINE though. They are not really a meca for BB.

I have been a Husker fan for over 35years, 10 of those paying an alum from Colorado outrageous money for his season tickets plus alum fees for football.

Now when it comes to BB, you will see a change this year for the Rabbits. They might not have a great record but the men atleast will be a lot more competitive. The caliber of athlete has doubled over last years team and they are young.

Nagy will not let this team sit ideal and mediocre...you ought to know this from his years as a NCC coach.

Plus...heck I get to watch teams like Neb., Minn, Alabama, Ill. and Kentucky play them. This year on the road but in the future right here in the RABBITDEN, I'm not complaining.

By the way who is UNO playing this year in BB? he he ;D

JACKGUYII
10-03-2005, 07:35 AM
If any USD fan thinks this years Coyote team ( as good as they appear to be) could beat the Jacks they are delirious! Heck the Yotes only legitimate win was against UNO and they barely beat Colorado School of Mines. I'm pulling for the Yotes to do well this year, but the arrogance after one good win is a joke!

89rabbit
10-03-2005, 07:52 AM
The Argus ran an online poll yesterday and asked "If SDSU and USD played football on a neutral site who would win?". SDSU won with over 60% of the respondents. So it seems that a majority of those that took part are smart enough to understand that I-AA is a step up from D-II.


Go State! ;D

MilwaukeeJacksAlum
10-03-2005, 10:46 AM
It looks like the Jacks still have not beat a good opponent this year. It looks like another 6-5 year which will be one of a long list of mediocre seasons in Jackrabbit football history.

The only saving grace for Jackrabbit fans is that they don't have to face USD this year and get completely embarassed on the field. SDSU can hang their hat on that one. At least they won't lose to "South Dakota's Team".

Ignorance and a poor memory = the good thing about being a USD football fan. Reality, my friend, is a concept lost on you.

sports_buff
10-03-2005, 11:04 AM
The Argus ran an online poll yesterday and asked "If SDSU and USD played football on a neutral site who would win?". SDSU won with over 60% of the respondents. So it seems that a majority of those that took part are smart enough to understand that I-AA is a step up from D-II.


Go State! ;D

I thought you would have learned your lesson about online polls after the ESPN one from this summer. Not you are citing these online polls as evidence that SDSU is better. ::)

For the last decade or so USD has been below average and SDSU has been average. Now USD is good and SDSU is still average. The difference between I-AA and DII is not that big. The top DII teams can certainly beat a good portion of the I-AA teams.

Alumguy
10-03-2005, 11:19 AM
sports_buff ... when is the last time you saw DIAA football? Let's see ... would "never" be a good answer?

I really get my ire up when I see someone post something on here and they have no clue what they are talking about. On this issue you are clueless. There is no comparison between DII football and DIAA football.

I'd suggest you don't comment on something you know absolutely nothing about because it is then, that one's ignorance really shows.

JACKGUYII
10-03-2005, 11:49 AM
I thought you would have learned your lesson about online polls after the ESPN one from this summer. Not you are citing these online polls as evidence that SDSU is better. ::)

For the last decade or so USD has been below average and SDSU has been average. Now USD is good and SDSU is still average. The difference between I-AA and DII is not that big. The top DII teams can certainly beat a good portion of the I-AA teams.




Sportsbluff

If you are so sure there is no difference between DII and DIAA than show up for the Cal Davis/Jacks game on
Saturday and come back on here and truthfully share your opinion. My guess is you have never seen a IAA game. It's easy for either one of us to say what would happen if SDSU and USD took the field as it's not going to happen. My guess would be a simliar outcome as the last 10 years. Clearly USD has the best team they have had in years, but SDSU who did offer to play USD in Brookings and in Sioux Falls has more talent and would prevail!

sports_buff
10-03-2005, 11:51 AM
sports_buff ... when is the last time you saw DIAA football? Let's see ... would "never" be a good answer?

I really get my ire up when I see someone post something on here and they have no clue what they are talking about. On this issue you are clueless. There is no comparison between DII football and DIAA football.

I'd suggest you don't comment on something you know absolutely nothing about because it is then, that one's ignorance really shows.

Actually Alumguy, it's funny that you mention that. The first DI-AA game I attended was in 2003. I was visiting some of my friends out in Montana and they are always blowing about how fun the Montana games are, so I went with them to a game. They were right too, the game was a good time. The Montana faithful weren't not to happy with the outcome though, as a DII team from Fargo beat them on their own field. NDSU was coming off a season where they finished last in the NCC, but that didn't stop them from winning at Montana.
I haven't seen a lot of I-AA games, but I've seen enough to know.
So before you try to tell me how many I-AA games I've been to, just re-read the last line of your post.

sports_buff
10-03-2005, 11:56 AM
Sportsbluff

If you are so sure there is no difference between DII and DIAA than show up for the Cal Davis/Jacks game on
Saturday and come back on here and truthfully share your opinion. My guess is you have never seen a IAA game. It's easy for either one of us to say what would happen if SDSU and USD took the field as it's not going to happen. My guess would be a simliar outcome as the last 10 years. Clearly USD has the best team they have had in years, but SDSU who did offer to play USD in Brookings and in Sioux Falls has more talent and would prevail!

I never said there was no difference, I said the difference is not that big. But you are right when you say it's easy for both of us to say what would happen when they will never meet. Because of that I refrained from posting on the topic for this long, however I was unable to keep silent after 89 posted that on line poll.

89rabbit
10-03-2005, 12:18 PM
I thought you would have learned your lesson about online polls after the ESPN one from this summer. Not you are citing these online polls as evidence that SDSU is better. ::)

For the last decade or so USD has been below average and SDSU has been average. Now USD is good and SDSU is still average. The difference between I-AA and DII is not that big. The top DII teams can certainly beat a good portion of the I-AA teams.




Buff,

I wasn't using the one day poll (not enough time for USD to set up an automated voting program to rig the outcome) to prove that SDSU is better then USD. I was merely pointing out that the respondents knew that there is a difference between I-AA and D-II.

Is USD good or is their schedule, along with the whole NCC watered down? I think USD is having a good season and I give you props for the beat down you put on UNO, but lets be honest your schedule is weak. Only one team on it has a winning record and that is the Mavs. Here is what the rest look like.

USD's Opponents 2005 records

Minn. Crookston: 0-6

Truman State: 1-5

Minn. St. Moorhead: 0-5

Colorado School of Mines: 3-3

Augie: 3-3

In total (including UNO) your opponents record is 11-23 for a winning percentage of .323% :o That is not good.

If I want to demonstrate the difference between D-II and I-AA all I need to do is look back at recent history.

Last year SDSU spanked a D-II playoff qualifier Winona State. Correct me if I am wrong but USD was not deemed good enough by the NCAA to receive a playoff invitation last season. Winona State, if you recall, had a fine team last season. Their only D-II loss came in the playoff to the defending National Champions Grand Valley State. The final score of that playoff game was GVSU 16 - WSU 13. Do you remember the Winona St. vs SDSU score? Just in case you forgot . . . I-AA SDSU 45 - D-II Winona St. 20.

UW-La Crosse also comes to mind as they are a team that has played some NCC team recently as well as SDSU. Should we see how those games turned out?

2003

UW-La Crosse 28 - USD 24

2004

UW-La Crosse 34 - Minnesota-Duluth 13
USD 45 - UW-La Crosse 44

2005

SDSU 42 - UW-La Crosse 13


Again, I am glad that USD is having a good season and representing South Dakota well in D-II, but let's try and keep some prospective. I am sure somewhere there are University of Sioux Falls fans saying that they would beat the stuffings out of USD if they only had the chance to play them. After all the Cougars are undefeated and ranked higher in their poll then the Yotes are in theirs. Both assertions seem equally hollow to me, but I wish both schools well.

Go State! ;D

sports_buff
10-03-2005, 01:13 PM
Buff,

I wasn't using the one day poll (not enough time for USD to set up an automated voting program to rig the outcome) to prove that SDSU is better then USD. I was merely pointing out that the respondents knew that there is a difference between I-AA and D-II.

Is USD good or is their schedule, along with the whole NCC watered down? I think USD is having a good season and I give you props for the beat down you put on UNO, but lets be honest your schedule is weak. Only one team on it has a winning record and that is the Mavs. Here is what the rest look like.

USD's Opponents 2005 records

Minn. Crookston: 0-6

Truman State: 1-5

Minn. St. Moorhead: 0-5

Colorado School of Mines: 3-3

Augie: 3-3

In total (including UNO) your opponents record is 11-23 for a winning percentage of .323% :o That is not good.

If I want to demonstrate the difference between D-II and I-AA all I need to do is look back at recent history.

Last year SDSU spanked a D-II playoff qualifier Winona State. Correct me if I am wrong but USD was not deemed good enough by the NCAA to receive a playoff invitation last season. Winona State, if you recall, had a fine team last season. Their only D-II loss came in the playoff to the defending National Champions Grand Valley State. The final score of that playoff game was GVSU 16 - WSU 13. Do you remember the Winona St. vs SDSU score? Just in case you forgot . . . I-AA SDSU 45 - D-II Winona St. 20.

UW-La Crosse also comes to mind as they are a team that has played some NCC team recently as well as SDSU. Should we see how those games turned out?

2003

UW-La Crosse 28 - USD 24

2004

UW-La Crosse 34 - Minnesota-Duluth 13
USD 45 - UW-La Crosse 44

2005

SDSU 42 - UW-La Crosse 13


Again, I am glad that USD is having a good season and representing South Dakota well in D-II, but let's try and keep some prospective. I am sure somewhere there are University of Sioux Falls fans saying that they would beat the stuffings out of USD if they only had the chance to play them. After all the Cougars are undefeated and ranked higher in their poll then the Yotes are in theirs. Both assertions seem equally hollow to me, but I wish both schools well.

Go State! ;D




The fact that you are using that on line poll to prove anything is ridiculous. And why are you posting scores for USD from 2003? I don't know where you were going with that one. Maybe you wanted to show how a good DIII team can beat an average DII team, like USD was in 2003. If thats what your point was then I agree with you. Just like the top DII teams can beat a good portion of the I-AA teams.

To answer your question on whether USD is good or is it a matter of their schedule being weak, the answer would be both. No doubt their schedule has been weak to this point, but that doesn't mean they aren't good. A lot of people have said USC has had a weak schedule these last couple of years, but that doesn't mean they are good.
It does make it tough to know just how good they are. I think a lot of USD fans might think they are better than what they are because of how bad we beat UNO. I don't really think we are 45 points better than UNO. I do think we are clearly better than last year, but I also won't be surprised if we end up with the same record. At St. Cloud and at home against UND are both potential losses.
I'm pretty sure Winona St. would not have made the playoffs last year had they played in the NCC. They are rolling up a bunch of big victories this year as well, but unfortunately for them they did schedule an NCC team this year. UND beat them 51-6.

SDsportsFan
10-03-2005, 01:16 PM
Actually Alumguy, it's funny that you mention that. The first DI-AA game I attended was in 2003. I was visiting some of my friends out in Montana and they are always blowing about how fun the Montana games are, so I went with them to a game. They were right too, the game was a good time. The Montana faithful weren't not to happy with the outcome though, as a DII team from Fargo beat them on their own field. NDSU was coming off a season where they finished last in the NCC, but that didn't stop them from winning at Montana.
I haven't seen a lot of I-AA games, but I've seen enough to know.
So before you try to tell me how many I-AA games I've been to, just re-read the last line of your post.


Is this true? Did NDSU really beat Montana in 2003? I don't even remember NDSU being that good in 2003. This can't be right.

89rabbit
10-03-2005, 01:36 PM
The fact that you are using that on line poll to prove anything is ridiculous. And why are you posting scores for USD from 2003? I don't know where you were going with that one. Maybe you wanted to show how a good DIII team can beat an average DII team, like USD was in 2003. If thats what your point was then I agree with you. Just like the top DII teams can beat a good portion of the I-AA teams.

To answer your question on whether USD is good or is it a matter of their schedule being weak, the answer would be both. No doubt their schedule has been weak to this point, but that doesn't mean they aren't good. A lot of people have said USC has had a weak schedule these last couple of years, but that doesn't mean they are good.
It does make it tough to know just how good they are. I think a lot of USD fans might think they are better than what they are because of how bad we beat UNO. I don't really think we are 45 points better than UNO. I do think we are clearly better than last year, but I also won't be surprised if we end up with the same record. At St. Cloud and at home against UND are both potential losses.
I'm pretty sure Winona St. would not have made the playoffs last year had they played in the NCC. They are rolling up a bunch of big victories this year as well, but unfortunately for them they did schedule an NCC team this year. UND beat them 51-6.


Here let me make it a little more simple for you, I will cut out all those pesky facts and quote my main point (I'll even highlight the really important parts) . . .




Again, I am glad that USD is having a good season and representing South Dakota well in D-II, but let's try and keep some prospective. I am sure somewhere there are University of Sioux Falls fans saying that they would beat the stuffings out of USD if they only had the chance to play them. After all the Cougars are undefeated and ranked higher in their poll then the Yotes are in theirs. Both assertions seem equally hollow to me, but I wish both schools well.

Go State! ;D

sports_buff
10-03-2005, 02:26 PM
There were some years in there where those USF fans would probably have been right. Not this year though. I don't think USF would beat USD this year, just like I don't think USD would beat the top ranked teams in I-AA. However, SDSU isn't one of those teams.

And since noone will answer your question SDsportsFan I will, yes it is true. I was there.

m11jacks
10-03-2005, 02:45 PM
Sports_buff,

The difference b/n DIAA & DII, speed & depth. SDSU is building both, but not where we need to be to win against the top I-AA teams. However, SDSU probably have more depth than DII teams. Speed is a huge factor at the linebacking positions, which also equates to making it tougher for the offense to get to the edge. I had a friend who played at Northern Iowa and he said the main difference are the 2 factors listed above. I-AA schools have backups that would start at most DII schools. What would happen if USD lost 1 or 2 of their linebackers? This is where the difference lies. More scholarships = more quality depth = maintaining high level of performance.

Rabbitden
10-03-2005, 02:50 PM
Sportsbuff...get a clue!

It has been stated over-and-over the many differences between DII & DIAA. Fact of the matter...USD would not maintain Montana, would not maintain Cal Poly, would not maintain Texas State, would not maintain Cal Davis, PERIOD!!!!!

By the way that is our schedule so far...not a cream puff on it. Get off this high over USD. Yes they have a great team this year and a lot of us Jacks fans even root for them in the NCC now.

Game in and game out though USD would crumble with this schedule. First off, not enough depth...one thing the Jacks don't even have enough of right now with more scholarships than USD, second thing and most important is the athleticism at the DIAA level. We are not there yet either but we do have a diffrent level of overall athlete now than we ever had at the DII level.

Last thing...the U probably could beat a lot of the lower end non-scholly DIAA teams but because you have seen one DIAA game don't make such BOLD statements.

ITS JUST NOT BECOMING...EVEN FOR A YOTE! ;)

89rabbit
10-03-2005, 02:55 PM
Buff,

This is why I am trying to help you, you have lost prospective and don't know where to find it. You guys are 6-0 but you have only played one ranked team (a D-II ranked team), for that matter you have played only one team with a winning record.

See if this helps. You beat Colordo School of Mines in overtime. This is the same Colordo School of Mines that was killed by Nothern Colorado. Final Score / UNC 52 - Colorado Mines 31.

UNC got pasted by Cal-Poly - Final Score Cal-Poly31 - UNC14

#9 Cal-Poly did beat the Jacks but only by 8, the week before the #4 Montana Grizzlies beat us by 7. So although our record doesn't match yours I think it is safe to say that SDSU would kill the Coyotes like we have for a decade.

Thus my point that USF the NAIA school thinks they can beat USD and USD the D-II school thinks they can beat SDSU. It is kinda cute when the little schools think they can step up a class and win because they are beating the schools from their class.

Go State! ;D


P.S. As far as SDsportsFan goes, many on the board believe him not to be what he claims to be so he is ignored a lot.

SDSUFAN
10-03-2005, 06:23 PM
My only comment is that the USD fans should enjoy it while they can. I dont think this euphoria will last forever. ;D

SDsportsFan
10-03-2005, 08:49 PM
[quote author=89rabbit

P.S. As far as SDsportsFan goes, many on the board believe him not to be what he claims to be so he is ignored a lot.[/quote]

I forgot, I'm not a true fan because I questioned the move to DI. I also don't bash USD every chance I get, so therefore I'm not a true SDSU fan. Because everyone did ignore me and sportsbuff's word wasn't good enough for me I did my own research and saw that sportsbuff was actually telling the truth.

89rabbit
10-04-2005, 12:30 AM
*From the Moderator

I find it quite a coincidence that sports_buff, and SDsportsFan both registered as users on the same day (Nov. 30, 2004) and just 4 minutes apart from one another. Jackmd “called out” SDsportsFan and challenged all to read his posts and make up their minds as to his true allegiance. Having done so, I find merit in Jackmd’s suspicions. SDsportsFan & sports_buff this matter will be taken up with the board’s administrator and until such time as a determination is made you’re posting privileges are suspended. Please feel free to contact me by PM if you have further questions, or comments.

Mavericks#1
10-04-2005, 02:02 AM
89,


Aren't you being a little harsh?

OK_Jackrabbit
10-04-2005, 04:23 AM
*From the Moderator

I find it quite a coincidence that sports_buff, and SDsportsFan both registered as users on the same day (Nov. 30, 2004) and just 4 minutes apart from one another. Jackmd “called out” SDsportsFan and challenged all to read his posts and make up their minds as to his true allegiance. Having done so, I find merit in Jackmd’s suspicions. SDsportsFan & sports_buff this matter will be taken up with the board’s administrator and until such time as a determination is made you’re posting privileges are suspended. Please feel free to contact me by PM if you have further questions, or comments.


And let me guess... they registered from the same IP address, too. I suggest you ask the administrator to check that. And I once again suggest that IP address ID be turned on on this board so all of us can see what IP address people are posting from.

SDSUFAN
10-04-2005, 04:24 AM
No not really. (This is a response to Maverick No 1's question about being harsh. :)

Coyote_Fan
10-05-2005, 12:55 AM
I will chime in on this topic. It is fair to say that most on this board are saying there is a significant difference between D2 and D1AA. My biggest question would be if that were true you would think that any D2 teams making the jump to D1AA would struggle for at least a few years to get use the superior talent level. Most of the D2 teams that made the jump have been very competive with the new division and have been pretty much within the first year or two after the jump. If I recall the great west has many of their teams that are new to D1AA but they have done quite well against the Big Sky conference which is an established D1AA conference. If your argument hold merit of D1AA being significantly better it's just not reasonable for a D2 team to make the jump to 1AA and be competitive right away. It just makes no sence. What that is saying is the the NCC as a conference is at the 1AA level or if not are very, very close.

SDSU has done very little to improve their team since they made the jump. Just a few more scholarships and the same coach that they had when they were an average NCC team. I think most of you would agree that SDSU is really not any better (or at least not much more) than when they left divison 2.

USD on the otherhand is heads and shoulders better than they were 2 years ago when the last time they played SDSU. Even in that game aside from the two long touchdown passes the game was a virtual draw. But as we know those TD's make the game so it is a pathetic excuse but you get my point. The last time USD had a semi good team was the year 2000 when they went 8-3 under John Austin. That team isn't of the caliber of the current USD team but they won fairly easily up at Coughlin Alumni that year.

Isn't it fair to say that some of the upper D2 teams have alot of D1 talent on their rosters. Maybe not the depth of talent but good talent none the less. Logan, Beshorner, Gearman and many of the lineman on the offfensive line are of D1 caliber. UNO has one of the better D2 defenses and didn't slow the Coyote offense down barely at all. USD has never been able to do that to other NCC teams in the past. This year they are so far. The top 4 in the NCC are every bit as good this year as they have been when the NCC was still an intact 10 teams league.

When you had Ranek on your team I would bet that if you polled your fans that year that at least 80% of them would have considered him not only a D1 caliber player but a good one at that. Unfortunately the defense couldn't put it together for you the same years or you could have been a major title contender those years.

Wouldn't it be fair to say that this USD team is at least as good as the SDSU team that left D2? This USD team is doing some things that SDSU never did anytime in their recent NCC past. So if SDSU could make the jump as an average NCC team wouldn't it be fair to say that USD as the top 1 or 2 NCC teams would have as good of a chance as SDSU has had to be competitive in D1AA. SDSU as a mediocre team in the 90's should have beaten Montana on the road when they were at the top of the D1AA mountain. Only a miraculous comeback prevented an SDSU win that day. NDSU did win as an average to above average NCC team just a couple of years ago. We are talking about a lower division team going into an upper echelon D1AA team and being competive. Imagine if those D1AA teams had returned the favor and played on the NCC teams home field. I think NCC teams would pick up a few wins in those instances.

I am fine if you think that SDSU is better than USD but don't just use the D1AA label as a reason because that doesn't necessarily and hasn't previously always been the telling tale. If some of you want to make fun of USD for barely beating Mines in a tough situation on the road at high altitude with a team that hadn't yet had to play a 4 quarter game then what is your excuse when SDSU lost out at Chadron not all that long ago?

Instead of using generalizations as to why SDSU would win it would be nice to hear what SDSU has done this year to make you think they would beat USD who is on caliber with some of the teams you are currently playing and I don't mean LaCross. If USD is good enough to embarass UNO than they are good enough to at least slightly edge out SDSU. Because not too long ago SDSU was losing to the same basic UNO team with basically the same players and same coaches. Don't tell me that this SDSU team is heads and shoulders above the team from 2 years ago because it's just not true.

SDSUFAN
10-05-2005, 03:19 AM
Yeah you are right USD is so superior. Why dont you enjoy your success as a coyote fan while you can. What goes up will come down. :(

Well the way to prove your points would be to help your alma mater out financially so that the move to D1AA could be made. You have to put your money where your mouth is. ;D

SDSUFAN
10-05-2005, 04:25 AM
I will chime in on this topic. It is fair to say that most on this board are saying there is a significant difference between D2 and D1AA. My biggest question would be if that were true you would think that any D2 teams making the jump to D1AA would struggle for at least a few years to get use the superior talent level.


If SDSU as you say has done very little since moving to D1AA, then I would agree there is a struggle to make our program better. Perhaps then there is a big difference between D1AA and D2. It does not matter what SDSU does on the field. It will be minimized no matter how great the win may be or maximized when its a disaster defeat by USD faithful. Its called jealousy, plain and simple.

Regarding the close win with Colo Mines, I have this to say. We could make the same arguement about weather in the Texas State game. It was 90 degrees and humid at game time. I dont think it was weather though that lost the game. It was the overall talent of Texas State. Talent that would embarrass QB beachcomber and crew at USD.

Coyote Fan, I invite you to become the next coach at SDSU. You got it all down. Youshould know how to coach better than Stig since he is so awful and mediocare.

89rabbit
10-05-2005, 04:56 AM
Coyote_Fan,

You sure wrote a lot, but you ingnored the fact that your success is built against teams with a .323% winning percentage. The Coyotes are better then they were two years ago, but your schedule has also been dumbed down from 2 years ago. Instead of facing UNC, NDSU, and SDSU, now you are playing Truman St., Minn. Crookston, Minn. St. Moorehead. You can gloss over your recent struggles with UW-La Crosse and this years OT win over Colorado Mines, (who was killed by I-AA UNC) but it dosen't change the fact that you have beaten one team with a winning record and now, in your mind, you are world beaters. ::)

I will say it again, I am glad that USD is having a good season and representing South Dakota well in D-II, but let's try and keep some prospective. I am sure somewhere there are University of Sioux Falls fans saying that they would beat the stuffings out of USD if they only had the chance to play them. After all the Cougars are undefeated and ranked higher in their poll then the Yotes are in theirs, and USD only has a few more scholarships then they do. Thus my point that USF the NAIA school thinks they can beat USD and USD the D-II school thinks they can beat SDSU. It is kinda cute when the little schools think they can step up a class and win because they are beating the schools from their class (and in USD's case bad teams from their class). Both assertions seem equally hollow to me, but I wish both schools well.

Go State! ;D

MilwaukeeJacksAlum
10-05-2005, 06:50 AM
Coyote Fan:

I think you make some excellent points in your well-thought out post. However, I think you missed a couple things. You say you don't think SDSU has done anything to get better since we left D2, yet somehow USD has? I'll admit that you're team looks to be the best team USD has put on the field in over 10 years. However, I'm not sure how that shows they did a lot to improve. If SDSU has supposedly done nothing to improve, then I don't know how you can say USD has. It's not a two-way street.

More to the point, is it so beyond your belief that SDSU has indeed become a better team in the past 2 years? 89Rabbit makes several excellent points when frequently arguing against USD. Our team absolutely destroyed a D2 playoff team last year. That same team beat SDSU in a sloppy game during our last year of D2. I think that would show some improvement. On the flip side, USD has had a very, very, very poor schedule the last 2 years. I think all USD supporters will admit to being embarrassed by their schedule. Every USD fan I've talked to has admitted to that (and that includes a ton of die-hard fans and ex-USD jocks). That's not taking away from their achievements, just dillutes them somewhat, especially when they lost against the only strong teams on last year's schedule. This year, USD has yet to be truly tested. UNO was a good football team, but that game was over in the first quarter so I don't know how much of a test that was. It was one of those games where everything fell into place for USD and they steamrolled UNO. Every athlete hopes to be a part of one of those games. However, I think you would agree the true representation of either team cannot be determined by that game. The jury is still out.

As for coaching. Granted, Coach Stig is still here from our D2 days. However, that's about it. The core of a good coaching staff comes from the assistant coaches. SDSU has greatly improved their assistant coaches and you would have a hard time winning any argument to the contrary. Coach Stig is still one of the best recruiters in the country. Ask the old coaches at USD and Augie if you don't believe me. His ability as a recruiter is and was while in the NCC well respected by all of his peers. SDSU rarely lost an in-state athlete to another program in a recruiting battle. That says nothing about his X&O ability, which is stellar (speaking from personal experience).

As for the SDSU/USD game, we'll never really know. Some things that I think I know about the game. SDSU's defense and running game would be the best USD sees all year save perhaps UND's defense which is always top-notch. USD's offense is spectacular, especially the passing game which has long been a weakness for USD. I think it would be a very close game coming down to turnovers. Also, don't discount the mental aspect of the game. SDSU has owned USD for a long time now. That comes into play and anyone who has been a part of the rivalry will agree with me. Another thing, SDSU has been much more battle-tested this season. That would surely come into play. No matter what, it would be fun to watch.

Best of luck to USD. I'd much rather watch them roll into the playoffs than UND or UNO.

Jacks99
10-05-2005, 07:09 AM
Here are just a few comments for C-fan.

If you want to compare the bottom to mid DI-AA (top 50 teams) with the mid to top of D2 (4 years ago this would have included most of the NCC) Then I would agree they are the same.

But from top to bottom to say they are they same is just out there. Just watching the Cal Poly game (they've been DI-AA for 7+ years) and the speed difference is very noticeable. Yes we are able to compete, but even when we play a real sound game with no turnovers we are at a disadvantage on the speed and athletic level.

Also I have no doubt that last years team and likely this years team would have been competing and possibly won the NCC. We had one of the best QB's ever at State last year, with possibly the best backfield combo also. Also the DEF and OFF lines could match up to anyone in D2.

As for the coaching, I respect Stig and his success at DI-AA isn't an accident. He has molded his staff, which has changed greatly the last three years, done very well in recruitment and is a class act.

The only argument I would listen to, is that we are playing up to our new level and have gained from the higher caliber competetion.

All that being said, I think USDII has a really good team and should go far this year, but am curious if they can keep the offensive juggernaut going against some better D's.

USDSU
10-05-2005, 07:13 AM
alot of good points be tossed around.


SDSU rarely lost an in-state athlete to another program in a recruiting battle. That says nothing about his X&O ability, which is stellar (speaking from personal experience).

Here are two great players at NDSU that got out of Stig's front and backyard. SDSU doesnt lose many but these guys would have made a great improvement to our running game. Both of these guys grew up watching saturday FB at CAS and still left.


Justin Buckwalter
# 73
Offensive Guard - OG
Height: 6-4 Weight: 315
Junior
Previous Affiliations
Lake Preston HS
Lake Preston, S.D.

Starter at the right offensive guard position over the his last 16 games ... Second team Preseason All-Great West Football Conference ... Great size and good feet ... Working to become more efficient ... Will assume a leadership role ... 2004 SEASON (SOPHOMORE): Started in 11 games at right offensive guard for NDSU ... Part of hard-working frontline who paved the way for the Great West Football Conference's top rushing offense, which averaged 192.4 yards per game and 30.7 points per game overall ... 2003 SEASON (FRESHMAN): Played in 10 games for the Herd on the offensive line, which helped the offensive post 30 points per game ... Made the final five starts of the season ... 2002 SEASON (REDSHIRT): Sat out the season as a redshirt in the Bison program ... HIGH SCHOOL: Prepped at Lake Preston High School where he was a four-year starter, a three-time first team all-conference selection, and a two-time first team all-state pick ... Named to the Sioux Falls Argus Leader Elite 45 in South Dakota for two straight years ... Conference MVP as a senior ... Played football for his father, Lake Preston head coach Kurt Buckwalter ... Also competed in basketball and golf ... The first four-time state qualifier in Lake Preston history on the links ...

Tim Popowski
# 69
Offensive Tackle - OT
Height: 6-2 Weight: 310
Senior
Previous Affiliations
Brookings HS
Brookings, S.D.

One of two returning starters on offensive line ... Preseason All-Great West Football Conference first team offense selection by media ... Three-year letterman who has excellent size, strength and toughness ... Displays great consistency ... Worked hard to improve quickness ... Has the potential to be a dominating player ... Natural leader with strong work ethic ... 2004 SEASON (JUNIOR): Started at right tackle in 10 games for NDSU ... Missed game against nationally-ranked Cal Poly due to an injury ... All-GWFC first team offense pick by both the coaches and media ... Honorable mention on CollegeSportsReport.com I-AA All-America team ... Named to Academic All-GWFC squad and ESPN The Magazine Academic All-District second team ... Graded out at 91.1 during the season with 60 pancake blocks ... Bison rushed for 192.4 yards per game and averaged 378.5 yards total offense per game ... Season-high grade of 96% at Weber State (11-6-04) and tied a career best with eight pancake blocks ... North Dakota State led the conference in rushing offense in 2004 ... 2003 SEASON (SOPHOMORE): Played in all 11 games for the NDSU, helping the running offense gain 159.5 yards per game ... The Bison averaged 30.1 points and 355.5 yards of total offense per game ... Graded out at 90.5% and recorded 59 pancakes (5.36 ppg) ... Achieved a career-high grade of 97% and had eight pancake blocks against Augustana College ... Honorable mention to the Academic All-North Central Conference team in 2003 ... 2002 SEASON (FRESHMAN): Became starter at right tackle position after All-American Chuck Klabo went down with an injury ... Started the final five games in helping the Bison to 338 yards and 20 points per game averages ... 2001 SEASON (REDSHIRT): Sat out the 2001 season as a redshirt in the Bison grid program ... HIGH SCHOOL: Prepped at Brookings High School where he was a three-year starter and a first team All-State performer for the Class AA South Dakota state champions ... All-conference as both an offensive and defensive lineman ...Team captain and Most Valuable Player... Member of the Sioux Falls Argus Leader's Elite 45 team ... Charted 98 tackles including 10 sacks on defense and had over 60 pancake blocks on offense his senior season ... Also competed in track & field, hockey and baseball ... Qualified for state in both the shot put and discus ...

SDSUFAN
10-05-2005, 07:35 AM
As far as Buckhalter and Pops playing for NDSU, both were recruited by NDSU and these guys made their choice. How is that a reflection on Coach Stig?

They both have helped the Bison, but Pops in the last Bison game I listen too while in ND has been having ankle problems and is not 100 per cent.

Whether SDSU would have been better or worse without these guys, I really don't know and neither does anyone else.

We can site Wille Jones from Yankton, Preston Crumly from Hartington NE, Paul Kiezar, Hull Ia, all from within 50 miles of USD yet they chose to be a Jack? Does the reflect on Mieirkort as a recruiter. If Mierekort was so good as a coach and recruiter, why haven't these guys transferred.

Also if Yankton is in USD's back yard- 26 miles west, why are there two Yankton guys on the NDSU Bison roster?

JACKGUYII
10-05-2005, 07:47 AM
I can't argue with a kid who grew up in Brookings or in close proximity who when making a decision on where to go to college want's to put a little distance from home.

USDSU
10-05-2005, 08:06 AM
Has SDSU ever got a top high school prospect from Fargo?

That is one of the reasons why NDSU contends, cause they get who they want. They can go into a rivals territory and steal players.

I don't know of any brookings and surrounding area athlete's that have walked on at NDSU, the ones that go to NDSU from the area are scholarship material.

SDSUFAN
10-05-2005, 08:10 AM
USDSU:
So what is your point? If you are so scornful and looking down at SDSU's program, what are you doing to help it out? ;D I dont think you are among the SDSU faithful and thats okay. Bringing up Buckhalter and Poposki is pointless. Stig knows how to recruit and with more resources his choices will only get better. ;D

SDSUFAN
10-05-2005, 08:16 AM
Has SDSU ever got a top high school prospect from Fargo?

That is one of the reasons why NDSU contends, cause they get who they want. They can go into a rivals territory and steal players.

I don't know of any brookings and surrounding area athlete's that have walked on at NDSU, the ones that go to NDSU from the area are scholarship material.

Ted Wahl came from Jamestown. He was a very good quarterback 1986-89. UND made sure his younger brother did not follow him down to SDSU. The brother was only about half of what his brother was.

Another blue chipper was Chris Cloquette, from Crookston and not from Fargo or Grand Forks, he was from Crookston, and dont for a second think that UND and NDSU did not have him in their sights and probably made offers.

SDSU seems to have better luck with players in Minnesota, Iowa, and Nebraska. Why waste resources in a state that has about the same number of athletes and high schools, when you can go elsewhere. UND has come into SD because of Roger Thomas's SD connections including a wife from Bridgewater. Also Dan or Don Lennon, the UND coached was with Stiglmeier when they both coached at Northern. They are still very good friends. These things have influence on individual choices made. Also Popsoski's dad coached with a guy named Bruce Suam, who was on the NDSU coaching staff. All these things come into play. Stig or no other coach can control the athletes and their choices. ;)

BTW Preston Crumley is going to be one great lineman before he is done. He came from Hartington Ne, and dont tell me USD did not try to recruit him. I sure they did.

USDSU
10-05-2005, 08:31 AM
I never said anything about Stig's recruiting ability. Just noted that 2 greats got out of his backyard.

JACKGUYII
10-05-2005, 08:34 AM
Seems to me the players we have are good enough to beat NDSU 2 of the last 3 years. NDSU's recruiting like SDSU's recruiting has expanded significantly since the move. If you looked at Montana's roster they had a significant number of Montana kids. This is from a state with less population than South Dakota. I think the instate kids there have figured out what it takes to make yourself a DIAA calibre player just like South Dakota kids will.

jackmd
10-05-2005, 10:04 AM
SDSU is now DI.

USD is DII.

I think both are, should be, and will continue to be happy. They are different institutions and need to remain that way in order to thrive. A renewed rivalry would be fun but its just not practical at the current time.

All this discussion is therefore irrelevant. Doesn't mean it shouldn't happen, it just means it doesn't matter. Will USD's success entice a few athletes who are good enough to compete at the DI level to settle for DII, sure, can't do anything about that.

JACKGUYII
10-05-2005, 10:26 AM
I think one reason NDSU has had some success recruiting South Dakota kids for football is they have been historically the premiere DII football program in the region and country. The fact the school resides in Fargo is also very appealing for kids from smaller communities. I think USF and Augustana have benefited from being located in a bigger city that can offer amenities that Brookings and Vermillion can't. You dont see many premiere South Dakota Basketball players heading north other than Denver Tenbrook.

joeybrownerhof
10-05-2005, 10:42 AM
SDSU is now DI.

USD is DII.

I think both are, should be, and will continue to be happy. They are different institutions and need to remain that way in order to thrive. A renewed rivalry would be fun but its just not practical at the current time.

All this discussion is therefore irrelevant. Doesn't mean it shouldn't happen, it just means it doesn't matter. Will USD's success entice a few athletes who are good enough to compete at the DI level to settle for DII, sure, can't do anything about that.

As a Yote fan, I fully agree. Both sides have vaild points however,this discussion, argument, debate, smack will go nowhere unless the teams play on the field, and this is not going to happen any time soon. Also, BigJake/Mav1 be careful with your personal attacks.

Mavericks#1
10-05-2005, 11:27 AM
Also, BigJake/Mav1 be careful with your personal attacks.


I have never personally attacked someone unless first being personally attacked. We went through this many moons ago and I said the same thing. I refuse to turn the other cheek after taking personal shots. Call out UNO as much as you want. Talk about how we got blasted 59-14. I expect that. But when people like JBNJBQ, Milwaukee and others take personal shots, I am going to respond with in the guidelines of this board.
If you are going to dish it out be ready to take it back.


Mavs#1

MilwaukeeJacksAlum
10-05-2005, 12:30 PM
Here are two great players at NDSU that got out of Stig's front and backyard. SDSU doesnt lose many but these guys would have made a great improvement to our running game. Both of these guys grew up watching saturday FB at CAS and still left.


With all due respect, I think you missed the point of my post. It was not to battle on whether Stig was the best recruiter in the country, but to point out to Coyote Fan that Stig is an excellent coach and has surrounded himself with excellent coaches. Also, to point out that Vlad Guerrero gets an out 7 out of 10 times he steps up to the plate does not prove he is a bad hitter.

MilwaukeeJacksAlum
10-05-2005, 12:34 PM
I have never personally attacked someone unless first being personally attacked. We went through this many moons ago and I said the same thing. I refuse to turn the other cheek after taking personal shots. Call out UNO as much as you want. Talk about how we got blasted 59-14. I expect that. But when people like JBNJBQ, Milwaukee and others take personal shots, I am going to respond with in the guidelines of this board.
If you are going to dish it out be ready to take it back.


Mavs#1

The only time I have made a personal attack is when a bisonman comes on here and makes a thinly veiled dig at me for being an undersized linebacker even though I doubt bisonman ever actually played for NDSU. Even then, my personal attack was more based on defending myself than attacking bisonman. I believe the only time I've mentioned anything personal about the two UNO yahoos is when you posted articles and pictures on this site claiming that all SD people are fat, etc. But, I guess claiming people from SD are fat and whatever other broad statements you've made on this board doesn't fit under personal attack in your book.

joeybrownerhof
10-05-2005, 01:01 PM
USDSU, I have a hard time with your proposition. If a local kid goes to another rival school doesn't necessarily reflect on one's recruiting ability. If that was the case Jim Calhoun from Uconn (Jason Fraser) and Tressel from OSU (Omar Jacobs) recruiting abilities should be questioned.

Coyote_Fan
10-06-2005, 02:50 AM
[quote author=MilwaukeeJacksAlum link=board=Smack;num=1128221123;start=30#34 date=10/05/05 at 07:50:35]Coyote Fan:

I think you make some excellent points in your well-thought out post. However, I think you missed a couple things. You say you don't think SDSU has done anything to get better since we left D2, yet somehow USD has? I'll admit that you're team looks to be the best team USD has put on the field in over 10 years. However, I'm not sure how that shows they did a lot to improve. If SDSU has supposedly done nothing to improve, then I don't know how you can say USD has. It's not a two-way street.


The biggest thing USD did to improve was to scrap the buddy system of coaches that they have had down there for 15 years. USD kept hiring coaches from within or someone that was endorsed by the outgoing coach. That is the problem. If the coaching was bad to begin with why stay from within and why take advise from the outgoing coach. Joel Neilson the new AD at the time decided to put the coaching position up for a nationwide search. They decided from multiple applicants to hire Meierkort. When I heard him in an interview for the first time I had a good feeling about him. He just had positive energy and sounded intelligent when talking. That is all I knew but he has turned out pretty good so far. That is a very big change, the change that has made a huge difference. The players that are now there are basically the same ones that Austin coached and recruited. The problem with Austin is that he was not a good sideline coach. Meierkort is a good sideline coach either that or he has some pretty good assistants. Meierkort did hand pick those assistants though. The current coaching staff understands how to get the most out of their players and understands how to use the correct playcalling at the correct time. Austins staff put out a team that looked disorganized most of the time. Too many penalties, stupid play calls, etc. He couldn't even get plays in on time to not avoid having to call timeout to not get a delay of game penalty.

That is why USD is succeeding. It's because of the coaching staff. That coaching staff instills confidence in the players and now those players are really fourishing.

Coyote_Fan
10-06-2005, 02:56 AM
With all due respect, I think you missed the point of my post. It was not to battle on whether Stig was the best recruiter in the country, but to point out to Coyote Fan that Stig is an excellent coach and has surrounded himself with excellent coaches. Also, to point out that Vlad Guerrero gets an out 7 out of 10 times he steps up to the plate does not prove he is a bad hitter.


I think Stig is a good coach and does a solid job of keeping the Jacks as a decent team. I wouldn't call him an excellent coach yet because he hasn't really had the Jacks on the doorstep of winning anything yet. If he was excellent he would have had SDSU in the playoffs before going D1. This is not a shot at Stig I am just saying he is a good coach but wouldn't say excellent.

OK_Jackrabbit
10-06-2005, 04:53 AM
Look at the graduation rates: SDSU's athletes graduate at a 73 percent rate. USD's athletes are at 58. SDSU's graduation rate is among the highest in D1AA. I'll take that. And Stig, because he manages a large number of scholarships and walk-ons, is a big contributor to that record. He also wins more than he loses, and with a big disadvantage in scholarships (for the moment). There is more to being an "excellent" coach than just win-loss percentage.

89rabbit
10-06-2005, 05:58 AM
One more point for our USD friends, you asked for reasons why we are better then we were 2 years ago. Here is a good one, now that we are D-I some of the rules have changed, these different rules that we play under allow us to offer more and be better, Chris Solari wrote an article about this either this summer or the summer past. One of these changes deals with the Jackrabbit Acceleration Program. As a D-II program we could offer the program to our athletes but they had to pay for it. Now that we are D-I we can provide it to our athletes and the majority of the football team has spent it's summers in Brookings getting stronger and faster. The stregth and conditioning coach (Nathan Moe) is a huge part of D-I sports.

SDSU wins this proposed match up, if you don't believe me call your AD, call your coach, demand that they sign a deal with State. We will always be looking for a D-II team to open the season with and we will give you a check when it is all said and done. Just remember, there are no home and home deal with teams from different divisions.

Go State! ;D