Hockey

[Nidaros]

Re: Hockey

I have to weigh in and agree with most here that not many sports will be added, and there is more likely to be cuts if the revenue side of the budget starts to decrease. Add to that the big fund drive which includes a big number for athletics. I am not sure of the number, but I am certain an ice arena is not included. With CAS and all the other priorities, its like me walking by a Cadilliac dealership. I can look and admire, but can not talk deals with the sale person, because, I have no money. Besides, I dont think Cadillacs are on the top of the list for fuel effiency, but have all the nice things, that would not help you at all in a blizzard in Donor's pass, between Reno and Sacremento. Thats about how we have to view hockey.

[State_fan]

Re: Hockey

Hockey games are a blast. It would be cool if they could make them an official sport, but it is expensive. Without looking at exact numbers, I would assume the cost for football and hockey is pretty similar? Anyone know how the two compare? Assuming it is, then I suppose you would need to average attendance like a football game to make it profitable, and the Larson Ice Center can't pull that one off.

[Nidaros]

Re: Hockey

Hockey games are a blast. It would be cool if they could make them an official sport, but it is expensive. Without looking at exact numbers, I would assume the cost for football and hockey is pretty similar? Anyone know how the two compare? Assuming it is, then I suppose you would need to average attendance like a football game to make it profitable, and the Larson Ice Center can't pull that one off.

All reasons for never even a trial ballon for addition of hockey. I am afraid the Stampede is the best and only option in town.

[UNDfan]

Re: Hockey

As it has been mentioned before. I don't have the exact numbers, but I do remember seeing the numbers before that the local schools in this region that sponsor hockey are lucky to break even, if not mostly take a loss on their hockey programs. St. Cloud, Mankato, Duluth, Bemiji, und. All established schools that draw alot of talent from MN, a hockey state, which I will go out on a limb and say that SD will never reach that status.

Hockey has more potential for being profitable for a school than football; especially at the FCS level. At UND, revenue from hockey overwhelms the revenue from any other sport and subsidizes the entire athletic department. Also, the number of quality hockey players from throughout the US looking for DI opportunities is growing. States like Colorado, California, and Texas are producing some highly skilled players. UND hockey players come from all over, but mostly from it's backyard of NW Minnesota, Winnipeg metro, and North Dakota:

State/Province # of players
Alaska 1 Georgia 1 Illinois 1 California 1 Minnesota 4 Wisconsin 1 N Dakota 3

Manitoba 6 British Columbia 1 Alberta 3 Saskatchewan 2 New Brunswick 1

Here's some estimated financial numbers for UND:

$2,770,000 from season ticket sales (7800 tickets @ $355 per)
$ 150,000 from student season tickets (2000 @ $75 per)
$ 960,000 from single game ticket sales (1600 @ $25/ ticket, + games without student ticket sale, like vs UMinn @ $40 / ticket)
$1,200,000 from suite rentals
$1,000,000 from advertising
$1,150,000 from concessions (est @ $5 profit / person / game with 230,000 fans/ season)
$7,230,000 total

To qualify to buy hockey season tickets, membership in the Fighting Sioux Club is required. There are about 2360 members of the Fighting Sioux Club who paid and average of about $850 / membership (more expensive memberships allow more season ticket purchases). So, due in large part to hockey, almost $2,000,000 is raised annually through the Fighting Sioux Club that goes directly to the general athetic fund.

[UNDfan]

Re: Hockey

Hockey was one of the big "secret" reasons these school's administrations were so worried about the NCC breaking up and Non-Hockey teams moving to D-I. They knew they couldn't make the move to D-I with Hockey weighing them down, even if it is probably the most popular sport on campus.

IMO, SDSU will have men's soccer before they ever think about having Hockey, and IMO that isn't going to happen anytime soon, considering SDSU already fields 21 sports.
Hockey fans will never let themselves believe that Hockey is only popular in about 5 states in the U.S. and that will probably never change.

DI hockey provided NCC schools with regional DI exposure that even FCS football couldn't buy. Duluth, St Cloud, Mankato, and Omaha all get more exposure from hockey, playing Minny, Wisco, Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State etc, than FCS football would ever buy them. FCS football is the real weight (63 scholarships vs 24 -30 that most were offering and double that for Title IX) that kept them from moving. Basketball is another story, but they'd have to have good teams to get positive exposure. SDSU and NDSU should be pleased that Minnesota schools didn't move up: it leaves the whole state as a recruiting ground for mid-major DI Dakota schools.

Any school adding men's hockey does not need to add women's hockey; another sport or expanded women's participation or scholarships in an existing sport would be sufficient for Title IX. A number of schools have men's hockey but not women's (Michigan, Mich St, Denver, Notre Dame, etc etc). I would agree that SDSU hockey would be a mistake: unless SDSU played all its games in a new Sioux Falls arena. With 16 home games, SDSU would need to average around 5000 to be a decent money maker.

[West-River_Jack]

Re: Hockey

Hockey has more potential for being profitable for a school than football; especially at the FCS level. At UND, revenue from hockey overwhelms the revenue from any other sport and subsidizes the entire athletic department. Also, the number of quality hockey players from throughout the US looking for DI opportunities is growing. States like Colorado, California, and Texas are producing some highly skilled players. UND hockey players come from all over, but mostly from it's backyard of NW Minnesota, Winnipeg metro, and North Dakota:

State/Province # of players
Alaska 1 Georgia 1 Illinois 1 California 1 Minnesota 4 Wisconsin 1 N Dakota 3

Manitoba 6 British Columbia 1 Alberta 3 Saskatchewan 2 New Brunswick 1

Here's some estimated financial numbers for UND:

$2,770,000 from season ticket sales (7800 tickets @ $355 per)
$ 150,000 from student season tickets (2000 @ $75 per)
$ 960,000 from single game ticket sales (1600 @ $25/ ticket, + games without student ticket sale, like vs UMinn @ $40 / ticket)
$1,200,000 from suite rentals
$1,000,000 from advertising
$1,150,000 from concessions (est @ $5 profit / person / game with 230,000 fans/ season)
$7,230,000 total

To qualify to buy hockey season tickets, membership in the Fighting Sioux Club is required. There are about 2360 members of the Fighting Sioux Club who paid and average of about $850 / membership (more expensive memberships allow more season ticket purchases). So, due in large part to hockey, almost $2,000,000 is raised annually through the Fighting Sioux Club that goes directly to the general athetic fund.

How would this fit if you had to consider the financing of a hockey arena? If there is indeed a finite amount of money to be used for all athletic operations and facilities, would there be enough money to go around if the necessary amount were diverted to hockey arena financing? Does this limit financing a hockey program to metro areas where other means of paying for the arena and other uses for its operation are required?

[UNDfan]

Re: Hockey

How would this fit if you had to consider the financing of a hockey arena? If there is indeed a finite amount of money to be used for all athletic operations and facilities, would there be enough money to go around if the necessary amount were diverted to hockey arena financing? Does this limit financing a hockey program to metro areas where other means of paying for the arena and other uses for its operation are required?

Agree, that a facility and a large enough metro area (or interest) have to exist before the addition of hockey is viable. That's why I believe an SDSU team could only be successful (and profitable) if it played its games in Sioux Falls. Doubt that would go over well with non-Sioux Falls alumni, Brookings residents, or students. Hockey would make more sense for a school like Augustana to establish a DI presence.

[West-River_Jack]

Re: Hockey

Agree, that a facility and a large enough metro area (or interest) have to exist before the addition of hockey is viable. That's why I believe an SDSU team could only be successful (and profitable) if it played its games in Sioux Falls. Doubt that would go over well with non-Sioux Falls alumni, Brookings residents, or students. Hockey would make more sense for a school like Augustana to establish a DI presence.

That's what I figured. Thanks for the quick reply.

[joeboo22]

Re: Hockey

Its hard to start any sport from scratch and really hard considering there is no D-I hockey facility on campus, there isn't a whole lot of D-I hockey players in South Dakota, and Title IX just kills any chance if for some reason the first 2 reasons where to change....

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Hockey

Hockey fans will never let themselves believe that Hockey is only popular in about 5 states in the U.S. and that will probably never change.

Go Jacks!!

My how true that is....drives me nuts.

[Nidaros]

Re: Hockey

Hockey has more potential for being profitable for a school than football; especially at the FCS level. At UND, revenue from hockey overwhelms the revenue from any other sport and subsidizes the entire athletic department. Also, the number of quality hockey players from throughout the US looking for DI opportunities is growing. States like Colorado, California, and Texas are producing some highly skilled players. UND hockey players come from all over, but mostly from it's backyard of NW Minnesota, Winnipeg metro, and North Dakota:

State/Province # of players
Alaska 1 Georgia 1 Illinois 1 California 1 Minnesota 4 Wisconsin 1 N Dakota 3

Manitoba 6 British Columbia 1 Alberta 3 Saskatchewan 2 New Brunswick 1

Here's some estimated financial numbers for UND:

$2,770,000 from season ticket sales (7800 tickets @ $355 per)
$ 150,000 from student season tickets (2000 @ $75 per)
$ 960,000 from single game ticket sales (1600 @ $25/ ticket, + games without student ticket sale, like vs UMinn @ $40 / ticket)
$1,200,000 from suite rentals
$1,000,000 from advertising
$1,150,000 from concessions (est @ $5 profit / person / game with 230,000 fans/ season)
$7,230,000 total

To qualify to buy hockey season tickets, membership in the Fighting Sioux Club is required. There are about 2360 members of the Fighting Sioux Club who paid and average of about $850 / membership (more expensive memberships allow more season ticket purchases). So, due in large part to hockey, almost $2,000,000 is raised annually through the Fighting Sioux Club that goes directly to the general athetic fund.

Where are the costs that were made in order to receive this revenue? A good accountant does not present the revenue side only, you need to see the costs too. Oh that right Ralph's estate picks most of those up the costs, but wait he needs a dang good portion of the revenue, so what does UND get? Not much. Show me the numbers that indicate that Hockey subsidizes the entire athletic department at UND. I doubt it does. If it did UND would not have been so slow in making the D1 move in other sports.

[Nidaros]

Re: Hockey

Agree, that a facility and a large enough metro area (or interest) have to exist before the addition of hockey is viable. That's why I believe an SDSU team could only be successful (and profitable) if it played its games in Sioux Falls. Doubt that would go over well with non-Sioux Falls alumni, Brookings residents, or students. Hockey would make more sense for a school like Augustana to establish a DI presence.

Gee UND Fan I am glad you got it all figured out for us.

[JackJD]

Re: Hockey

Hockey fans will never let themselves believe that Hockey is only popular in about 5 states in the U.S. and that will probably never change.

I, too, agree with that sentiment. I have no problem with hockey fans being loyal to their sport but if SDSU started thinking about (and, as JackMD noted earlier -- it is not) and they surveyed alums to determine support, they'd get a strong "No" vote from me. Our athletic support (money and fans) pie simply is not large enough to cut another piece out.

[Nidaros]

Re: Hockey

I, too, agree with that sentiment. I have no problem with hockey fans being loyal to their sport but if SDSU started thinking about (and, as JackMD noted earlier -- it is not) and they surveyed alums to determine support, they'd get a strong "No" vote from me. Our athletic support (money and fans) pie simply is not large enough to cut another piece out.

Call me lazy, but if a hockey match is on the tube, I quickly flip the channel, and I do not have any idea of what the rules are nor do I really care. There are enough sports to view when the time is available. ME TOO, STRONG NO.

[Vision]

Re: Hockey

Well I am a hockey fan (grew up playing it), but I still don't think that SDSU should have a team in the forseeable future. The Larson Ice Center is a great facility, but not for a college team. There was a story in the Register this weekend about improvements they are doing to the facility. http://www.brookingsregister.com/V2_...&story_id=3629
They are adding seating to the oposite side of the current seating, which was in the original plans of the rink, as well as doing some cosmetic improvements. I'm not sure what this would bring the capacity to, but I doubt they could hold more than 4,000 in the main rink. Brookings would be better served by a Junior 'B' team (a few levels lower than the Stampede) that could play in the Minnesota league. Hockey at State just doesn't make sense.

I also found a virtual tour of the rink if you're interested
http://homepage.mac.com/techase/Larson/Larson06.html
The Red rink is the main competition rink. In this shot you can see the side where they will be adding seating to enclose the rink.