The Ivy of the Plains

[89rabbit]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

I do think that the general student body (non athletes) will be able to see some academic benefit as a result of this move. I do have a small fear that hasn't really been discussed by too many people. I fear that it might be the athletes who suffer academically. At the D-I level sports is really more of a business, just look at Notre Dame. Thats a school who have always prided themselves on integrity and they fired a guy who they say was doing a great job Sunday through Friday but wasn't getting the job done on Saturday.  At the DII level you are a student first and athlete second, at most D-I schools it is the other way around. I'm not saying State will be one of those schools, but it is a concern. That is why NSU's basketball coach, Don Meyer, left when his college made the move to D-I. He is big on athletes being students first and he didn't feel that was promoted at the D-I level, he didn't feel it was as pure. Maybe that should be something the individual athlete can worry about in making their decision on whether they want to participate in D-I athletics.  If they decide thats what they want to do, then maybe I shouldn't really worry about it. What do you guys think? Do you think these are legit concerns or is that only a concern at schools like Nebraska, Miami, ND, FSU, etc.

I can understeand your concern and I think it is up to SDSU to live up to their mission. I am not sure that you can paint all D-I institutions with such a large brush. After all the Ivy League schools play D-I sports. Athletics at every level has a business component to it. As does academia as a whole. One might argue that NCAA D-III is the way to go. In the end I think it is up to the individual institutions to live up to the standards that they and their supporters set for themselves. I have faith that SDSU will be true to it's mission.

Go State! ;D

[jackmd]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

The vast majority of the athletes recruited to play sports at SDSU will still see their athletic careers end as their elegibility does.  Only a select few will go on to a sports career.

Hopefully, someone in their lives has made them aware of this ahead of accepting a scholarship to college.  If so, they should have an understanding that their athletic skills have allowed them acceptance and funds to complete their education at an institute of higher learning.  Part of this responsibility falls on the coaches and must be considered during the recruiting process.  The move to DI makes more scholarships available in a wider variety of sports.  None of the schools recently moving to DI can offer the diversity and number of sports programs that SDSU does.  I'm proud of that.  Its now necessary to continue the push to fully fund all sports from a scholarship standpoint.  Easier said than done.

[OK_Jackrabbit]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

I'm not sure the assertion about student athletes at DI schools is correct. I think people take stories of a few very bad programs and overlook the bigger picture.

For the most recent year available, DI student athletes were more likely to graduate than the overall student body. For 1997-1998, DI student athletes graduated at a 62 percent rate. The graduation rate for all students was 60 percent.

Or you can look at specific programs. Let's take two of my favorites, Iowa and Purdue vs. my current employer Oklahoma. Iowa student athletes had a 69 percent graduation rate. All students at Iowa had a 65 percent rate. Football at Iowa had a 58 percent rate. At Purdue, 81 percent of student athletes graduated versus 66 percent of all students. For football, the rate was 63 percent. Those two schools are representative of the Big Ten, which is a very good academic conference.

Now let's look at OU, which is among the highest in the Big 12. It's a sad story. The student athlete graduation rate is 55 percent versus 54 percent for the student body. Football was 40 percent. Basketball was zero for four years, but is now up to 20 percent. Sadly, the Big 12 is pretty poor academically. I didn't look closely, but the SEC looks pretty bad, too, with may schools graduating athletes at a lower rate than all students.

It varies in DI, but overall the picture is good, with a higher percentage of student athletes graduating than other students.

And DII is not necessarily a bastion of academic greatness. Student athletes at DII schools in '97-'98 had a 53 percent graduation rate, versus just 46 percent for all students.

SDSU can be proud, with a 73 percent student athlete graduation rate, versus 53 percent for all students. Let's look at that academic paragon, USD. Oops, only a 58 percent graduation rate for athletes and 50 percent for all students. Nebraska-Omaha was 60 percent for student athletes and just 36 percent for all students. Here's my favorite: Metro State was 46 percent for athletes and 20 percent for all students. UNO and Metro have different missions than SDSU, so the low all students rates aren't surprising. But the athletic rates are pathetic. Finally our partners at NDSU aren't quite as good as SDSU, but they graduated 69 percent of athletes and 53 percent of all students. Pretty good.

So this idea that DI is an academic wasteland and DII is academic nirvana just doesn't hold up. I think people get news of the bad stuff and impose that on all DI schools.

By the way, here is a link to all these reports:

http://www.ncaa.org/grad_rates/

Sorry for the long post, but I think this is interesting stuff.

[89rabbit]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

Great post OK! ;D

[SDSUFAN]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

I think it can be said that the graduation rates really reflect the administration in terms of what they want their university to be.  When you throw in an UNO and a Metro, the rates mean very little because of them being a commuter university.  When their role is to serve the working adult community such as Metro State, their attendence patterns are no where comparable to traditional students.

I am pround that SDSU does have a high rating in terms of student athlete graduation rates and thats what we have worked at for a long time. Going to D1 has not altered the course or action. I do recall it being a big arguement about two years ago.

[OK_Jackrabbit]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

I was bored this morning, so I looked up GWFC and Big Sky grad rates:

GWFC
School: All students/Student Athletes

SDSU: 53/73
NDSU: 53/69
Cal-Poly: 65/55
Cal-Davis: 81/0 (didn't have scholarships in '98 )
SUU: 34/57
N. Colo: 47/45

Big Sky
School: All students/Student Athletes

Montana: 45/70
Mont. St.: 44/52
E. Wash: 44/43
Idaho St: 22/38
N. Ariz.: 52/55
Port. St.: 33/36
Sac. St.: 39/41
Weber: 41/53

It's not a perfect comparison. Nonetheless, this does say something about what NDSU and SDSU have to offer the Big Sky as far as academics. Both schools will immediately be among the league leaders in academic performance.

[Texas_Jacks_Fan]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

Idaho St. only graduates 22% of its general student population?  Whats up with that? (ISU isnt a commuter school)
SDSU takes a backseat to none when it comes to academics. The move to Division 1 won't change that.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

I was bored this morning, so I looked up GWFC and Big Sky grad rates:

GWFC
School: All students/Student Athletes

SDSU: 53/73
NDSU: 53/69
Cal-Poly: 65/55
Cal-Davis: 81/0 (didn't have scholarships in '98 )
SUU: 34/57
N. Colo: 47/45

Big Sky
School: All students/Student Athletes

Montana: 45/70
Mont. St.: 44/52
E. Wash: 44/43
Idaho St: 22/38
N. Ariz.: 52/55
Port. St.: 33/36
Sac. St.: 39/41
Weber: 41/53

It's not a perfect comparison. Nonetheless, this does say something about what NDSU and SDSU have to offer the Big Sky as far as academics. Both schools will immediately be among the league leaders in academic performance.

How can the BSC presidents ignore these numbers when they consider future members?

[Crashola]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains



Pocatello is big-time LDS country.  I have to think that a large portion of the ISU women get married off before graduation day.  







[/quote]

[bisonguy]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

SDSUFAN,

Academic issues are what have held SUU from getting into the Big Sky on prior attempts, and what will probably prevent them from getting in again.

[OK_Jackrabbit]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

Idaho St. only graduates 22% of its general student population?  Whats up with that?  (ISU isnt a commuter school)

I'm not sure what their deal is, but they were 21 percent for all students in last year's report (for 96-97) and 21 percent the year before that.

[jackmd]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

I just returned from Medical Grand Rounds where the presenter was an O'Gorman, SDSU and USDSM graduate who has made quite a name for himself in the world of medicine. He is young, but already the director of his own FDA funded clinical trial. I felt a real sense of pride for the state of SD and the institutions he attended. Immediately, those seated around me looked in my direction knowing the connection between he and I. Thats one of the great things about SD.

Why do I post this? Because right now I am even more proud to be a native of SD and a graduate of SDSU then I usually am. No "Ivy" league training would have prepared him any better than the institutions in little SD did.

[Alumguy]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

jackmd ... you gave me goose bumps.

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

Jackmd, excellent post!

As a native SD born in the capital city I take great pride in the state of SD and SDSU. I think that pride is something that resonates amongst the majority of people who are current residents and those who have sought their respective careers outside SDs borders. You would be amazed (or maybe you wouldn't) at how many people know my wife and me as "our friends from SD". I received a ton of calls about SDSU being in town the last couple of weeks. People remember when someone is from SD because they are impressed with the vigor for which we profess to be SD natives.

Quick story. My grandfather is a pretty highly decorated WWII vet and SDSU alum. He had command of his own unit(?) (not sure the military term - he was a Lt.) and as such had some choice over who he was going to be leading. He said that after a couple of months and firefights it became painfully obvious who was the type of men needed for his unit. From that time on he chose as many SD natives as possible. If that wasn't enough he moved onto the rest of the Midwestern states. Hands down, in his opinion, when you needed someone you could count on to literally cover your back you couldn't get any better than South Dakotans or Midwesterners. A great deal of us may spend a large portion of our formative years shoveling s**t, but we tend to grow up with pretty strong moral values and a strong desire to work our asses off (even USD grads, surprisingly enough).

We've lived in Milwaukee for approx 6 years but still consider SD our home. I'll still probably be asking my wife when she thinks we'll be able to make it "home" for the holidays until I'm 6 feet under.

I know this is kind of an example of us all patting each other on the back about being SD natives but in this instance I feel it is 100% warranted.