The Ivy of the Plains

[Alumguy]

Evidently the ivy grows on the Coughlin Campanile at SDSU, not Old Main at USD. The spinmasters in Vermillion wanted the public to believe that all the brightest kids were becoming Coyotes. Over and over, we heard USD President Jim Abbott say USD was concentrating on academics and not athletics. The underlying meaning of course was that SDSU had its priorities mixed up.

Well, take a look at the Argus Leader today. Of the 826 kids who qualified for the state funded scholarship, 354 are attending SDSU. That amounts to 43% of the "best and brightest" going to State. 174 students chose USD, amounting to 21%.

The only reason I bring this up on this board is that many people in the media lead the public to think that SDSU was placing athletics above academics. In other words, USD had it right, SDSU had it wrong. That was a bunch of bunk. Our emphasis has always been academics.

[OK_Jackrabbit]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

That's great news. That program is a fantastic investment in the future. One of the things missing from Oklahoma is any evidence that the state values education at any level. We have a 7-percent income tax and sadly underfunded schools and universities nonetheless. Clearly, South Dakotans do value education and that is one of the many reasons I wish I lived there instead of here.

By the way, do some of those state scholarship students also qualify for the Jackrabbit Guarantee program?

[Mike_H]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains


"The only reason I bring this up on this board is that many people in the media lead the public to think that SDSU was placing athletics above academics. In other words, USD had it right, SDSU had it wrong. That was a bunch of bunk. Our emphasis has always been academics."

Who are the "many people in the media" that you refer to? Can you site examples?

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

I would venture to say that any student who qualified for the state's opportunity scholarship also qualified for the jackrabbit guarantee. ;D ;D

[Texas_Jacks_Fan]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

Definetly two schools heading in very opposite directions in both academics and athletics.

[OK_Jackrabbit]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

If they can get both the state opportunity scholarship and the Jackrabbit Guarantee, that would certainly go a long way towards attracting the best students in the state to SDSU and encouraging them to succeed.

[jackmd]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

If they can get both the state opportunity scholarship and the Jackrabbit Guarantee, that would certainly go a long way towards attracting the best students in the state to SDSU and encouraging them to succeed.

Exactly the reason we need to continue to aggressively support the SDSU Foundation and fund the Jackrabbit academic scholarships. For every dollar I commit to the athletic teams I at least match that with regards to academics. The Jackrabbit garuntee makes a huge difference and I believe it is the major reason for the stats noted in the Argus (maybe I'm wrong and someone will correct me). So the next time you get a call from the SDSU Foundation consider the importance of any donation. My hat is off to those who got the Jackrabbit garuntee program off and running. I suspect they faced similar criticism to those who got the move to DI off and running. I think this journey to DI will have a significant positive impact on the state of SD that will even impress Mike_H.

[Alumguy]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

Mike_H, you asked me to cite examples. On December 8, 2002, there was a lengthy article written by Kevin Dobbs in the Argus Leader. I checked it out on the Argus archive area, but it would cost be $2.95 to buy the article and I wasn't going to pay for trash.

Anyway, the article indicated that SDSU and USD were going different paths. SDSU was going to emphasize athletics and USD was going to emphasize academics. That in itself was a big lie.

That article was followed by an editorial which indicated USD was on the right path ... emphasizing academics over athletics. In other words, USD was right, SDSU was wrong.

Both the article and the editorial were irresponsible. Why? First of all, it wasn't true. SDSU has always emphasized academics. That wasn't going to change. However, the implication in the article and the editorial was allowing the general public to believe that SDSU was placing athletics over academics.

Subsequently, on a few occasions, I found myself listening to talk radio while driving the roads of South Dakota. Every so often a caller to a radio program would reference this goofy idea that USD was emphasizing academics and SDSU was emphasizing athletics (over academics).

It didn't stop with radio, either. Because the big lie was out there, I had countless conversations with people who felt this was true because they read about and heard about it.

That's why I was so excited to see this morning's newspaper. The fact that we are attracting more than twice as many bright students than our next closest competitor is proof positive that we continue to place academics above all else.

It's one thing to talk about things, it's another thing to do things.

Do you think there will be a story in the Argus Leader highlighting the fact that SDSU attracts more than twice as many bright kids as USD? That in itself is a major story. How does that happen? Here's a school that touts its academic prowess, yet SDSU gets twice as many bright kids.

No, there won't be a story. Why? Because it goes against the Argus Leader's belief that SDSU is emphasizing athletics over academics. And, it's hell to be wrong and have to tell everybody you're wrong.

In the meantime, the young people of South Dakota and their families will continue to recognize that SDSU is, and will remain, an outstanding intstitution of higher learning.

[Mike_H]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

Alumguy: Thanks for the examples. Well written and well thought out. I just wanted to make sure you weren't going to blame "the media" as so many people do. Thanks for taking the time and effort to explain.

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

Exactly the reason we need to continue to aggressively support the SDSU Foundation and fund the Jackrabbit academic scholarships.  For every dollar I commit to the athletic teams I at least match that with regards to academics.  The Jackrabbit garuntee makes a huge difference and I believe it is the major reason for the stats noted in the Argus (maybe I'm wrong and someone will correct me).  So the next time you get a call from the SDSU Foundation consider the importance of any donation.  My hat is off to those who got the Jackrabbit garuntee program off and running.  I suspect they faced similar criticism to those who got the move to DI off and running.  I think this journey to DI will have a significant positive impact on the state of SD that will even impress Mike_H.

Maybe you are partially correct. Both USD, DSU, and now possibly Northern offer programs very similar to the Jackrabbit Guarantee. (although we were the first and everyone decided they needed to do something to offset our gains) So the stats in the argus aren't directly related to the guarantee program, because those students would get that scholarship at the other institutions as well. It does show however, that twice as many bright kids are choosing SDSU for what the university itself offers which is even better news than if they chose it because of scholarship $$$$.

SDSU and USD have about the same percentage of their student body's enroll with a 24 or higher on their ACT. The difference is SDSU's freshman class is almost twice as large. You do the math and then talk about Ivy.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

I have recently had the opportunity to visit both campuses and the difference is quite remarkable. There is such a positive attitude at SDSU among the students, staff and faculty. The attitude at SDSU seems to be that "its a great place to learn, I'm learning alot, and I love being here." At USD the students I spoke with seemed to have the attitude of "I may be getting a good education, but I can't wait to leave."

I am a SDSU alum first and a USD alum second, but I think all SDns should be concerned that an institution we have invested so much in appears to have some very troubling underpinnings. I hope USD can decide what it wants to be, and then stick with the goal until it succeeds. About 4-5 years ago, they were in the process of trying to do what ever they could so total attendance would rise. Now they are going to focus on high achievers/scorers. The plans to get as many students in could not have been in place for one cycle of high school students and they abandon it.

IMO, SDSU wins on every count, but I am probably preaching to the choir on this board.

[SDsportsFan]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

Mike_H, you asked me to cite examples.  On December 8, 2002, there was a lengthy article written by Kevin Dobbs in the Argus Leader.  I checked it out on the Argus archive area, but it would cost be $2.95 to buy the article and I wasn't going to pay for trash.

Anyway, the article indicated that SDSU and USD were going different paths.  SDSU was going to emphasize athletics and USD was going to emphasize academics.  That in itself was a big lie.  

That article was followed by an editorial which indicated USD was on the right path ... emphasizing academics over athletics.  In other words, USD was right, SDSU was wrong.  

Both the article and the editorial were irresponsible.  Why?  First of all, it wasn't true.  SDSU has always emphasized academics.  That wasn't going to change.  However, the implication in the article and the editorial was allowing the general public to believe that SDSU was placing athletics over academics.  

Subsequently, on a few occasions, I found myself listening to talk radio while driving the roads of South Dakota.  Every so often a caller to a radio program would reference this goofy idea that USD was emphasizing academics and SDSU was emphasizing athletics (over academics).

It didn't stop with radio, either.  Because the big lie was out there, I had countless conversations with people who felt this was true because they read about and heard about it.  

That's why I was so excited to see this morning's newspaper.  The fact that we are attracting more than twice as many bright students than our next closest competitor is proof positive that we continue to place academics above all else.  

It's one thing to talk about things, it's another thing to do things.  

Do you think there will be a story in the Argus Leader highlighting the fact that SDSU attracts more than twice as many bright kids as USD?  That in itself is a major story.  How does that happen?  Here's a school that touts its academic prowess, yet SDSU gets twice as many bright kids.  

No, there won't be a story.  Why?  Because it goes against the Argus Leader's belief that SDSU is emphasizing athletics over academics.  And, it's hell to be wrong and have to tell everybody you're wrong.

In the meantime, the young people of South Dakota and their families will continue to recognize that SDSU is, and will remain, an outstanding intstitution of higher learning.  

I think it would be paranoid of us to say the whole media is against us. If I'm not mistaken I think most of the Argus Leader staff are State alum's. How did you find out that we were getting more of the scholarship kids than USD? I found that out from the Argus Leader, it's not as if they were trying to hide this information. I certainly wouldn't blame the media for printing somone's editorial or allowing people to call into a radio show and voice their opinion. These are other people's opinions and not those of the media. If they don't allow callers or print editorials of people who are in favor of the move then that would be upsetting to me. Maybe that is the way it is and I'm just not aware of it.
I also don't blame the Argus Leader for printing articles that talk about Abbott saying USD wants to focus on academics. Thats what Abbott said, I just think the article was meant to convey what USD's response was. As far as saying we are putting a stronger emphasis on athletics, well I don't think that is really too far from the truth. It does seem that we are making a much greater fundraising effort to get the money we need to support our athletic teams than any fundraising effort we've had to support academics. Thats not to say we don't care about academics and USD does. Thats just saying we are putting a bigger effort right now to raise our level of athletics, and I don't see why that would have to be the wrong path anyway. That is what I donate my money to.

[OK_Jackrabbit]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

I think it would be paranoid of us to say the whole media is against us.  If I'm not mistaken I think most of the Argus Leader staff are State alum's.  . . . As far as saying we are putting a stronger emphasis on athletics, well I don't think that is really too far from the truth. It does seem that we are making a much greater fundraising effort to get the money we need to support our athletic teams than any fundraising effort we've had to support academics. Thats not to say we don't care about academics and USD does. Thats just saying we are putting a bigger effort right now to raise our level of athletics, and I don't see why that would have to be the wrong path anyway. That is what I donate my money to.

You're right about most of the Argus staff. There is the line of logic that "you  always hurt the ones you love" meaning that oftentimes reporters are harder on people and institutions they believe in than on others they don't have anything invested in.

As far as academics, I don't think you're right about the current athletic fundraising effort being a greater effort than anything that has been done for academics. The SDSU Foundation's $52.4 million Visions for the Future campaign made improvements on campus and funded scholarships. That campaign was clearly focused on academics.

And I think what is sometimes lost here (for example, on the Argus reporters and editors) is that the move to DI also benefits academics.

Private research dollars, for example, tend to go to "major" universities. It sounds silly, but DI athletics play a part in identifying an institution as "major." It's just the way things work. Faculty are aware of these distinctions, too. So you can attract some faculty who might not have thought of you before. Don't forget the increasing numbers of student athletes who will get scholarships to pay for their education. And athletics can be a powerful motivator for philanthropy. At higher profile institutions, people give more money for academics AND athletics. I'm sitting in a brand new (dedicated Monday) $17 million academic building, paid for by a private donor, and located next door to the football stadium.

[SDsportsFan]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

You're right about most of the Argus staff. There is the line of logic that "you  always hurt the ones you love" meaning that oftentimes reporters are harder on people and institutions they believe in than on others they don't have anything invested in.

As far as academics, I don't think you're right about the current athletic fundraising effort being a greater effort than anything that has been done for academics. The SDSU Foundation's $52.4 million Visions for the Future campaign made improvements on campus and funded scholarships. That campaign was clearly focused on academics.

And I think what is sometimes lost here (for example, on the Argus reporters and editors) is that the move to DI also benefits academics.

Private research dollars, for example, tend to go to "major" universities. It sounds silly, but DI athletics play a part in identifying an institution as "major." It's just the way things work. Faculty are aware of these distinctions, too. So you can attract some faculty who might not have thought of you before. Don't forget the increasing numbers of student athletes who will get scholarships to pay for their education. And athletics can be a powerful motivator for philanthropy. At higher profile institutions, people give more money for academics AND athletics. I'm sitting in a brand new (dedicated Monday) $17 million academic building, paid for by a private donor, and located next door to the football stadium.

You make some good points. I do think our move to D-I can benefit academics, in the sense that we might get more research money and we certainly get more scholarships. However, I don't think that is why we are making the move. I view the move as an athletic move that just so happens to have some academic benefits to it. Maybe I'm wrong and a big reason of this move did have to do with academics.
We certainly haven't stopped fundraising for academics (SDSU foundation), I guess I just feel the athletic fundraising has just been more publicized by State as of late and therefore my feelings that we are putting a stronger emphasis on athletics right now. However, I for one don't mind that and actually prefer that. I wasn't a big fan of the move to D-I but not because I thought we were emphasizing athletics over academics or that I felt too much money would go to athletics. When I was a student I never cared if my General Activity fee went up as long as the money was going to go to athletics. Now I seem to be off track from my original "the media isn't biased" comment, so I will just stop.

[jackmd]

Re: The Ivy of the Plains

The move is about athletics and academics.  After recently meeting with several of the SDSU Foundation board members I left with a better understanding about the possible academic benefits of this move.  Private/corporate donations are now great in number and size than they ever have been and will continue to rise.  

More importantly, SD universities currently rank last in the nation is securing federal research dollars and SDSU is partly responsible for this.  By securing relationships with corporations, increasing our exposure outside of the midwest, and offering greater compensation, better facilities, and a more appealing campus life (DI athletics) we will only increase our ability to recruit better students and better faculty.  Its a mistake to try and "sell" this move as primarily academic, but trying to diminish the potential academic benefits is an even bigger mistake.  

Progress is paramount especially for the future of a sparsely populated state like ours.  Retaining a greater percantage of our best and brightest students and recruiting similar students from surrounding areas and beyond will be a direct consequence of this decision.  I am confident of that and I am confident the USD will benefit indirectly by increased enrollment at SDSU.  We now need to get some of our state lawmakers to see things is the same light and thats just a matter of time.