Countdown to a Conference

[filbert]

Re: Countdown to a Conference

Some other ideas to ponder--

First, Travel Distances.

Average air distance from Brookings to the nine Big Sky schools: 917.22 miles. Closest school: UNC, 483 air miles.

Average air distance from Brookings to the seven remaining Mid-Con schools: 635.14 miles. Closest school: UMKC, 363 air miles.

Average air distance from Brookings to the four GWFC schools: 967.75 miles. Closest school: NDSU, 180 air miles.

Item 1: Valparaiso just left the Mid-Con citing too much travel as the big reason.
Item 2: Travel is comparable right now between the Big Sky and the GWFC for SDSU.

Travel for all sports except football--Advantage: Mid-Con.

Let's look at the conference situation for "non-revenue" sports:

The Big Sky doesn't sponsor baseball, softball, swimming, wrestling, or equestrian. It does not sponsor a sport which SDSU doesn't have.

The Mid-Con doesn't sponsor football, wrestling, or equestrian. It sponsors men's soccer, which SDSU doesn't have. (As 89rabbit delights in noting in this and other forums, SDSU is already in the Mid-Con as an associate member in swimming and diving.)

I think the conclusion for the non-revenue sports is--Advantage: Mid-Con.

I know I'm beating the Mid-Con drum awfully hard--the truth is I'd be OK with SDSU in the Big Sky. I am just not at all sure that the Big Sky is, top to bottom, the better conference for SDSU. If we as an institution/alumni/fan base were as football-crazy as NDSU was, then I might see it the other way, but SDSU isn't the self-described football factory that NDSU perceives itself as. (Please, I don't mean to diminish those of you for whom football IS the priority--I'm just saying that football isn't as big at SDSU as it is at NDSU.)

Addressing the perception of which conference is better in basketball (read: men's basketball): Success among the non-major D-I conferences in basketball is cyclical, and really driven more by the success of individual teams than it is by a conference. You think Big Sky and you think Weber State and more recently Montana. You think Mid-Con and you think Valpo (oops!). The only non-major conference which has sustained success the past few years has been the Missouri Valley. We'll see if the Colonial can translate George Mason's success this year into an ongoing elevation in prestige.

The way is clearer in the Mid-Con for SDSU to regain some level of success in men's basketball than in the Big Sky. First, there are fewer teams, and second those teams are in (and known in) areas with greater population. That translates into somewhat easier recruiting. I still have to say advantage: Mid-Con here, as well.

[Rabbitlivinginverm]

Re: Countdown to a Conference

All the conference talk seems centered around football and men's basketball. As the point has already been stressed, the BSC is the cream of the crop football wise and the Mid-Con is a better fit everywhere else. But where does women's bball fit into this. I'll admit that I know nothing about WBB in either conferences; so which is better for them? I would like to think that our women's bball team has a very real shot at making the Big Dance the first year the are eligible whichever conference we are in. Which is a very good thing.

[NightHawk78]

Re: Countdown to a Conference

Here are my two cents on the latest developments and discussion:

1) Football and men's basketball typically drive all conference affiliation matters because they are the prime revenue-generating sports.

2) The concern over the future of the GFWC, in my opinion, is likely the top reason anyone from SDSU or NDSU is hesistant about joining the Mid-Con.

3) The next concern about the Mid-Con is the increasing instability of the conference Relying on Centenary to keep a conference's auto-bid in place is like relying on a walk-on freshman to carry the team into the playoffs.

4) The Big Sky might as well call themselves the B.S. Conference. If they ever decide to expand to 10, they'll likely (you never know, though :) select a school that could serve as a natural travel partner to an exisitng school, such as Denver to UNC. Adding just NDSU or all three Dakota schools doesn't make much sense......
4a) Don't count on the BSC teams to provide plenty of non-conference football matchups if we join the Mid-Con; SDSU has had more success scheduling teams from the South as opposed to the BSC.

5) Sorry, UND. The D-1 train left the station a long time ago.....your only option if you really want to do D-1 is to be ready for a few years of D-1 "purgatory" as an independent and hope some of your fellow NCC cohorts are willing to make the jump in order to make life a little easier......

6) Time zones make a world of difference. Fans enjoy being able to catch their team's games on the radio or TV at similar times (and dread waiting until 8 or 9 for a game on the West Coast to start....part of the reason baseball has kept its unbalanced schedule) In the end, I think that will make the Mid-Con a better home for both Jackrabbit and Bison athletics.

[Ozark_Jack]

Re: Countdown to a Conference

I think SDSU's WBB team is the best team right now in either the Big Sky or Mid Con!!

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Countdown to a Conference

I think SDSU's WBB team is the best team right now in either the Big Sky or Mid Con!!

From the final 2006 RPI standings.....
Best of the Mid-con - WIU - 93
Best of the Big Sky - NAU - 90, MT 97
SDSU 95.

Would have likely been playing for championship in either league.

[filbert]

Re: Countdown to a Conference

Here are my two cents on the latest developments and discussion:

. . .

6) Time zones make a world of difference. Fans enjoy being able to catch their team's games on the radio or TV at similar times (and dread waiting until 8 or 9 for a game on the West Coast to start....part of the reason baseball has kept its unbalanced schedule) In the end, I think that will make the Mid-Con a better home for both Jackrabbit and Bison athletics.

An excellent point. I'm sure most Jackrabbit fans have been frustrated over the years at how the score, let alone a story on 8 p.m. Frost Arena games often didn't make it into the early editions of the Argus (i.e. the ones that get delivered in Brookings); the games in Greeley were even worse.

Multiply Greeley by eight to understand how the time zone issue will be a big problem for basketball in the Big Sky. Unless you like listening to WNAX at 11 pm on a Thursday or Saturday winter night, that is.

[Haldersham]

Re: Countdown to a Conference

Beggers can not be choosers so the cliche says, and SDSU is probably in that position. I think we would be wise to take the first offer and go with it. As we can all see and I really was not aware, the bottom feeder teams in D1 are always looking for greener grass in the form of a more competitive conference especially men's basketall. $$$$ I dont think we are any different.

The arrows seem to point to the Mid Continet. I notice we signed a about six new swimmers so that we can be competitive in the Mid Con for Swimming and that could only help us in getting an invite for the remainder of sports offered..

How competitive were we in D2 swimming. Not too good as I recall and this sport was very under-funded. I think we have a good coach in Brad Erickson, he just has not had the resources to build a program until now.

[thebluehatman]

Re: Countdown to a Conference

at least when we moved to dI we had our stuff kind of together good story in the argus about how UND has things in chaos over there.

[RodentiaX1]

Re: Countdown to a Conference

5) Sorry, UND. The D-1 train left the station a long time ago.....your only option if you really want to do D-1 is to be ready for a few years of D-1 "purgatory" as an independent and hope some of your fellow NCC cohorts are willing to make the jump in order to make life a little easier......

The D-I transition as purgatory...

***GEEK ALERT***

The D-I transition as purgatory... interesting idea. A couple months ago, I read Dante's Purgatory (the sequel to The Inferno), and now that I think of it, there are parallels between purgatory and the D-I transition.

In Dante's Purgatory is a mountain which souls must ascend to reach Paradise (full D-I membership). At each level of the mountain, one of the Seven Deadly Sins (year of D-I transition) is worked off.

At the base of the mountain, outside the gates of Purgatory proper, is the antepurgatory, where souls must wait before entering the gates of Purgatory to begin their ascent. (Entering the gates of Purgatory = D-I exploratory year). Those who wait outside are the excommunicated and the late repenetant. Those who can't make up their minds on whether to go D-I seems like those souls waiting and waiting outside the gates until they are allowed to enter Purgatory.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: Countdown to a Conference

You never know what is going to come out of the Big Sky. They have the information on both SDSU and NDSU and to think they aren't talking about expansion and the Mid-Con situation is just ludicrous. They are saying October but it wouldn't surprise me if something happened sooner! You can never tell with them.

As far as my choice, I kind of agree with the idea of playing schools like Montana, and Montana State better than IUPUI (bless you) or IPFW but the Mid-Con is probably the best overall fit. We almost have to take the first offer!

MY NIGHTMARE SCENARIO---NDSU to BSC, SDSU to Mid-Con which folds GWFC and more changes happen in the Mid-Con which makes it look like the NCC does now.

I trust the Administration to sift through it all and make the best decisions on a home for the Jacks!!!

It's an exciting time!!!

SUPERBUNNY

[filbert]

Re: Countdown to a Conference

OK, so to reprise the events of yesterday:

The Mid-Con's Tom Douple laid out a process that he expects to take about six months for the Mid-Con to evaluate new members, with the intent to bring from one to four new schools into the conference. He hasn't given out a complete list of candidates but spoke very highly of SDSU and NDSU in an interview with Jeff Culhane on KVHT 1570 Yankton yesterday. Meanwhile, the Big Sky is still lumbering forward with whatever it is they intend to do (which appears primarily to continue to tease NDSU with membership for as long as possible). This article in the Sioux Falls Argus Leader says that the Big Sky has five potential candidates:

Fullerton said the schools the conference is looking at are SDSU, NDSU, the University of North Dakota, Southern Utah, Denver and Utah Valley State. Southern Utah is currently a member of the Mid-Continent Conference, and Denver is in the Sun Belt Conference.

Denver and Utah Valley State do not offer football. Fullerton has said in the past that an odd number for football scheduling and an even number for basketball is optimal.

From where I sit, the leading candidates for Mid-Continent membership continue to be IPFW, Texas-Pan American, Utah Valley State, SDSU, and NDSU (in no particular order).

My current prediction for what will happen is that the Big Sky will go hard after Denver in October. While Denver might just take the offer, I'm not at all certain the Pioneers would see the Big Sky as an improvement over the Sun Belt. After a while playing with Denver, the Big Sky will then turn their attention to Utah Valley State, unless that school has already made it into the Mid-Con. I think the Dakota schools are pretty much off the table for the Big Sky. In short, I think the Big Sky remains at nine members for the foreseeable future, as there just doesn't seem to be any enthusiasm among the conference presidents to expand.

Continuing my fearless prediction: the Mid-Con will take all five of IPFW, Texas-Pan American, Utah Valley State, SDSU, and NDSU, go to a 12-team league with two six-team divisions:
East: Oakland, IPFW, IUPUI, Western Illinois, Centenary, Texas-Pan American
West: NDSU, SDSU, UMKC, Oral Roberts, Southern Utah, Utah Valley State
(actual alignments may vary from what's shown here).

Bonus prediction (TEN extra points, if true!): Both the Mid-Con and the GWFC get fully merged and re-branded to a single conference name within the next 12 months.

[thebluehatman]

Re: Countdown to a Conference

just think the sceptics will say they were with us the whole time during the dI move when we find a confernce. Mick and Stu can take a broom stick and shove it where the sun don't shine, there stories are jokes.

[bisonbacker]

Re: Countdown to a Conference

OK, so to reprise the events of yesterday:

The Mid-Con's Tom Douple laid out a process that he expects to take about six months for the Mid-Con to evaluate new members, with the intent to bring from one to four new schools into the conference.  He hasn't given out a complete list of candidates but spoke very highly of SDSU and NDSU in an interview with Jeff Culhane on KVHT 1570 Yankton yesterday.  Meanwhile, the Big Sky is still lumbering forward with whatever it is they intend to do (which appears primarily to continue to tease NDSU with membership for as long as possible).  This article in the Sioux Falls Argus Leader says that the Big Sky has five potential candidates:

Fullerton said the schools the conference is looking at are SDSU, NDSU, the University of North Dakota, Southern Utah, Denver and Utah Valley State. Southern Utah is currently a member of the Mid-Continent Conference, and Denver is in the Sun Belt Conference.

Denver and Utah Valley State do not offer football. Fullerton has said in the past that an odd number for football scheduling and an even number for basketball is optimal.

From where I sit, the leading candidates for Mid-Continent membership continue to be IPFW, Texas-Pan American, Utah Valley State, SDSU, and NDSU (in  no particular order).

My current prediction for what will happen is that the Big Sky will go hard after Denver in October.  While Denver might just take the offer, I'm not at all certain the Pioneers would see the Big Sky as an improvement over the Sun Belt.  After a while playing with Denver, the Big Sky will then turn their attention to Utah Valley State, unless that school has already made it into the Mid-Con.  I think the Dakota schools are pretty much off the table for the Big Sky.  In short, I think the Big Sky remains at nine members for the foreseeable future, as there just doesn't seem to be any enthusiasm among the conference presidents to expand.

Continuing my fearless prediction:  the Mid-Con will take all five of IPFW, Texas-Pan American, Utah Valley State, SDSU, and NDSU, go to a 12-team league with two six-team divisions:
East:  Oakland, IPFW, IUPUI, Western Illinois, Centenary, Texas-Pan American
West: NDSU, SDSU, UMKC, Oral Roberts, Southern Utah, Utah Valley State
(actual alignments may vary from what's shown here).

Bonus prediction (TEN extra points, if true!):  Both the Mid-Con and the GWFC get fully merged and re-branded to a single conference name within the next 12 months.

Filbert, I think you may be onto something there. It's no longer the Big Sky but the Big Tease. It does beg the question though, Just how long will the Montana schools put up with the West Coast schools pulling the strings in the BSC? In my mind the travel excuse is so lame its laughable.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: Countdown to a Conference

Just give me a home where the Buffalo (Bison) roam,
and the rivalry lives for another day!!!

SUPERBUNNY

[filbert]

Re: Countdown to a Conference

More info on the Big Sky meeting, confirming that expansion just isn't a priority for them at all right now:

Big Sky expansion not discussed
By FRITZ NEIGHBOR of the Missoulian

The next step into the Information Technology age is a go for the Big Sky Conference, as is BracketBusters basketball.

Expansion is not, nor is a neutral site for the league basketball tournaments.
The Big Sky Conference's annual spring meeting adjourned Wednesday at the Double Tree Edgewater Hotel in Missoula, and the juicier subjects on the docket were barely addressed.

A motion to take host duties for the league basketball tournaments away from the regular-season champions was tabled. Any discussion on expanding the Big Sky Conference to possibly include schools in the Dakotas was over almost before it got started.

Asked how much talk expansion received, University of Montana president George Dennison stated flatly, “It didn't.”

“It came up mostly in the contest of difficult scheduling for basketball, and all sports except football, in a nine-team conference,” Dennison added.

“Here's the stance of the presidents: They're interested in expansion,” Big Sky commissioner Doug Fullerton said. “They really are - but they're interested when the right opportunity presents itself. Scheduling basketball is not something that would push expansion.”

The league office got the OK on its basketball schedules, which were made more difficult by the addition of a ninth school, Northern Colorado, for the 2006-07 school year. The trickle-down effect of that was expansion talk, and heavy debate on ESPN's BracketBusters Saturday, which pits four Big Sky men's basketball programs against other mid-majors from across the country.