Frost Arena Capacity?

[jackmd]

Re: Frost Arena Capacity?

the problem with putting reserved seating behind the student section is you get some old people who go and look at it empty and see a good view then they get there durring the game and theres students infront of them standing and they yell at them to sit down then the students cant see... I don't know who bad the view will be effected at frost.. I've seen this at numerous small gyms in high schools when area teams play it gets full and theres always some old people that get there early and sit behind teh student section and yell at the students... Students are suppose to stand and I don't want anything to object to that. I don't know

Several quick points;

President Chicoine told a gathering in Yankton that student enrollment cannot grow much more given the current infrastructure and faculty at SDSU.

If we increase "classroom" space and buildings on campus the projected number of SD high school and area grad may limit our ability to fill that space.

Therefore, the Dean's of most of the colleges on campus are not expecting much more of an increase in enrollment at SDSU over the next 10 years.

Lastly, my understanding is that all of the upper level seats will be raised on a platform when the renovation of Frost is complete (improvement of site lines).

[joeboo22]

Re: Frost Arena Capacity?

Thats not what I've heard Im not disagreeing with you but from everything i've heard is that going D-I they wanted to expand the enrollment to around 15,000 in the next 10 years.

As far as an arena I think Frost capacity is good but I would like if they could use it all, 7,000+ would be what I would want... I like what Gonzaga did they built a fairly small on campus arena for there conference home games but when Memphis or somebody big comes to town they move it to the Spokane Arena or to Key Arena is Seattle.. Sioux Falls isn't that far away and if they build a big arena they could always move a game down there if they had too.

[2002jack]

Re: Frost Arena Capacity?

Thats not what I've heard Im not disagreeing with you but from everything i've heard is that going D-I they wanted to expand the enrollment to around 15,000 in the next 10 years.

As far as an arena I think Frost capacity is good but I would like if they could use it all, 7,000+ would be what I would want... I like what Gonzaga did they built a fairly small on campus arena for there conference home games but when Memphis or somebody big comes to town they move it to the Spokane Arena or to Key Arena is Seattle.. Sioux Falls isn't that far away and if they build a big arena they could always move a game down there if they had too.

Well Joeboo, you might be the only person who knows more than Dr. Chicoine about the goals for SDSU enrollment. SD high school enrollment continues to decline. I think a goal of slight increases is reasonable. Growing to 15,000 in 10 years would put a huge strain on SDSU.

[Haldersham]

Re: Frost Arena Capacity?

When we speak of a premuim being put on reserved seating, what is the current point system called? The most season tickets that you can order is six tickets. You must contribute something like 200 bucks a seat each year. You get points for ordering season tickets each season. It goes on and on. As an alumni, and one who has contributed plenty to build up points, I fail to see what other premuims can be placed on reserved seats, except to make the contribution per seat a higher amount.

Student seating has always been on the short side even back in the days of the Barn, particularily when we had a conference contender and that happened very often. Even if we have the student section filled to capacity, percentage wise, its a weak turnout, when there are 11,000 currently enrolled. If 1,100 show up, thats 10 per cent turnout. Where are the other 90%? There always have been students who pass on athletic events, and if 3000 or 4000 want to come to the games, then its about time they come out of the apathetic shell and do something about it namely work through student government and other means available. Its does not reflect on current students favorably when one slate of candidates runs for election of the SA without opposition. That not to say students do not care, it does tell me that a whole bunch could care less though. Otherwise there would still be run offs for SA president going on because there were a ton of hats thrown in the ring.

I said this before and on other threads and will say it again, SDSU is a much better place in all respects than it was 42 years ago when I got my degree and left for military service. You have a Student Union, that we never dreamed of, you have additional accounting courses as a for instance that was very much lacking 40 years ago. I believe I left with 6 hrs. I could not afford USD's accounting major not when your parents are living 10 blocks from the SDSU campus. My free room and board was a priceless scholarship and I got a great education even though it did not fit my interests completely.   I am sure nearly every department on campus has increased their course offering over the years.

One of the important things I picked up at the open forum relating to the NCAA Certification process is that there are a number of study tables and tutoring services are availalbe to non-student athletes and student athletes alike. Despite the hugh enrollment increase in the last 40 years, help with a tough course is available for the asking. So faculty still seem to care about student success in learning and maybe more so than what they did 40 years ago.

Things are much better today believe me and if you want a seat at mid court, you need to show up early. It worked that way at the Barn too. I know from experience. I often ended up in the balconey, because I came late.  I am with Jack#1, I will leave the configeration up to the HPER department. They have the staff to work on this problem and without a doubt, they are paying attention.

As an alum I dont feel any guilt for taking a back chair seat away from a student. You will get your turn to be a generous alum.

[goon]

Re: Frost Arena Capacity?

When im able to donate as an alumi, I would want to see students get priority over me. So, in the next 10-15 years sense we dont have the room to grow even if students want to come here we wont expand? sounds like supply and demand, there would be a demand of students who would want to come here so we could expand our programs to allow for growth. SDSU hardly charges more for out of state tution then instate so they can keep numbers of students up, even if we have a smaller percent of high school students in the state.

It seems a lot of people are saying student support for this campus is weak for what if could be. Well womens basketball just doesnt draw the crowds like mens teams usually do. our mens team stinks right now. support if obviously low for them from students, no matter how much you love the team and the school its hard for some people to go every game to watch them find a way to lose again. I dont think it will be much longer till we get to the status that we want as a program. with that Student support will then increase with more students going to the games. If you dont think 10 years fine, look even father out, how much longer will we play in Frost? 30-40 years possibly with all the other plans for this campus it could happen. So in 40 years we are not going to get any more student support then the 10% that we may be lucky that we are getting now? we are going to be stuck at 11,000 students for the whole 40 years, the town of brookings could grow to add more of a fan base. I am not against more chair back seating, but i am against limiting the possible number of fans that can attend the games. Why not make the student section small enough to fit the up to maybe 500 usual fans that come every game and other students who don't sit there cant go because they dont go to enough games all the time. let alumni who buy season tickets who dont show up to every game either get them just because they think they deserve them over students. Maybe im strechting it a little far.

[joeboo22]

Re: Frost Arena Capacity?

I believe there should be some backed seats I like courtside backseats--accept for student sections and how it is now, chair backed seats are well liked by elderly people.. but lets be reasonable we don't need to cut the capacity in half to do so. I like how it is now if a season ticket holder wants GA season tickets i'm shure they can work that out somehow...

As far as enrollment, like I said im not disagreeing with you I just remember the big thing with SDSU going D-I was getting enrollment in the 15,000 range in roughly 10 years there currently at like 10,800.. they have one of if not they best agriculutral schools in the nation and a great engineering school along with others... I would prefer if SDSU would allow it to grow; just because rural south dakota isn't growing doesn't mean that SDSU doesn't have too.

We don't need a "Whine and Cheese" crowd... I thinks thats right?

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Frost Arena Capacity?

When im able to donate as an alumi, I would want to see students get priority over me.  So, in the next 10-15 years sense we dont have the room to grow even if students want to come here we wont expand?  sounds like supply and demand, there would be a demand of students who would want to come here so we could expand our programs to allow for growth.  SDSU hardly charges more for out of state tution then instate so they can keep numbers of students up, even if we have a smaller percent of high school students in the state.  

It seems a lot of people are saying student support for this campus is weak for what if could be.  Well womens basketball just doesnt draw the crowds like mens teams usually do.  our mens team stinks right now.  support if obviously low for them from students, no matter how much you love the team and the school its hard for some people to go every game to watch them find a way to lose again.  I dont think it will be much longer till we get to the status that we want as a program.  with that Student support will then increase with more students going to the games.  If you dont think 10 years fine, look even father out,  how much longer will we play in Frost? 30-40 years possibly with all the other plans for this campus it could happen.  So in 40 years we are not going to get any more student support then the 10% that we may be lucky that we are getting now?  we are going to be stuck at 11,000 students for the whole 40 years, the town of brookings could grow to add more of a fan base.  I am not against more chair back seating, but i am against limiting the possible number of fans that can attend the games.  Why not make the student section small enough to fit the up to maybe 500 usual fans that come every game and other students who don't sit there cant go because they dont go to enough games all the time.  let alumni who buy season tickets who dont show up to every game either get them just because they think they deserve them over students.  Maybe im strechting it a little far.  

WHAT?...Somebody, anybody please tell me what "Goon" is trying to tell us! I had reread this a couple of times, I am still trying to let it soak in.

[goon]

Re: Frost Arena Capacity?

that i am fine with wanting to add chairback seating, but I am against it if it eliminates capacity of Frost, Why not add more chairback seating and find away to still increase capacity for future growth. If your fine that only 6000 people can ever attend a game at frost then thats ok with you. Some of the changes made recently to frost and the future plans could hurt the attmosphere that frost has had in the past.

The average fan I don't think can afford season tickets every year. SDSU fan base is largely working class. If rich or above average fans can afford reserved seats and season tickets, great for them, they dont have to worry about which games they can go to, by having a lower capacity in frost makes the ability for the average fan harder to go to. Basically eleminating part of the fan base. if the Student section is filled up, the students who are not in the student section have to then fend for themselves to get seats competing against the average fan who can only attend certain games a year and If there are more reserved seats and season ticket holders and the capacity is lower then it could be, it really takes away from many fans and students being able to attend the games. If our mens team gets into the NIT soon, not that its going to but its a possiblity, If they get in, with the size of Frost maxed out at 6000, with only season ticket holders getting top priority for tickets for the game ahead of students and other fans. The ability for enough students to fit in is limited and I think that there could be a better system for accomodating all fans.

Im sure that it didn't clear that up for you at all, but hey atleast you tried.

[goon]

Re: Frost Arena Capacity?

Here, to put it simply, I think having a lower capacity at Frost is a bad idea, I think work should be done to be able to increase the amount of people who can attend games, not eliminate them.

[Charger13]

Re: Frost Arena Capacity?

The problem is that there is a limit on how many seats can be in the building. Are you suggesting that we should turn away season ticket buyers because once or twice a year there will be more students attending than seats available? I think we need to work at upgrading Frost as much as possible with the addition of new bleachers and amenities. Its not like the AD is just eliminating seats and not supplying replacements to increase demand. The bad news: new bleachers take up more room than the old wood ones, so in effect we have less seats available. The good news: the overall quality of the arena is better, leading to a better experience. I wish they would have installed bleachers on the lower level ends of the court instead of chairbacks. Than they could have the student section on three sides of the court and reserved on one side with both the North and South upperdeck seats also being reserved. Frost was not the best planned facility. The sight lines aren't the greatest in some areas and the court is offset so the North side larger than the South side (this makes expansion more difficult and I'm not sure a concourse could fit under permanent bleachers on the South side). I think Frost is good enough for the next 10-15 years, but hopefully there will be sufficient demand to build a new arena or totally overhaul Frost by that time.

[JimmyJack]

Re: Frost Arena Capacity?

Thats not what I've heard Im not disagreeing with you but from everything i've heard is that going D-I they wanted to expand the enrollment to around 15,000 in the next 10 years.

Well, I've actually heard President Chicoine say that 13,000 is a maximum and that 12,000 is more likely our natural level for now. So perhaps you should run up to his office (Admin 222) and give him the benefit of your "expertise".

[Haldersham]

Re: Frost Arena Capacity?

that i am fine with wanting to add chairback seating, but I am against it if it eliminates capacity of Frost, Why not add more chairback seating and find away to still increase capacity for future growth.  If your fine that only 6000 people can ever attend a game at frost then thats ok with you.  Some of the changes made recently to frost and the future plans could hurt the attmosphere that frost has had in the past.  

The average fan I don't think can afford season tickets every year.  SDSU fan base is largely working class.  If rich or above average fans can afford reserved seats and season tickets, great for them, they dont have to worry about which games they can go to,  by having a lower capacity in frost makes the ability for the average fan harder to go to.  Basically eleminating part of the fan base.  if the Student section is filled up, the students who are not in the student section have to then fend for themselves to get seats competing against the average fan who can only attend certain games a year and If there are more reserved seats and season ticket holders and the capacity is lower then it could be, it really takes away from many fans and students being able to attend the games.  If our mens team gets into the NIT soon, not that its going to but its a possiblity,  If they get in, with the size of Frost maxed out at 6000, with only season ticket holders getting top priority for tickets for the game ahead of students and other fans.  The ability for enough students to fit in is limited and I think that there could be a better system for accomodating all fans.  

Im sure that it didn't clear that up for you at all, but hey atleast you tried.

Yes you can afford a season ticket every year and many working families seem to find a way to affordability. I think too thatthe donations can be part of your tax planning if you have mortgage interest and property taxes. In my  case its been a big motivator to give. It would be perfect if not for the IRS 80-20 rule for deductibilty. After doing taxes for the past few weeks, I find the ideal situation is a single parent earning 20k per year with a qualifying child. The tax credits are unbelievable with one refund that I am aware of was over 5k.  Much more than was withheld from wages. Personally I dont have a problem with that but I dont buy all this poor stuff. A working poor class? Yes but certain tax credits work in their favor and having custody of the babies you help made really puts you in the driver seat come tax time.

I would not worry too much about a shrinking Frost capacity. If the demand is apparentl, it follows supply will follow and who knows who and what that involves. The issue of a shrinking capacity at Frost will not keep me a wake at night, that I do know for certain. I am curious though to see what both program do next year. Lets hope the WNIT Fever hangs around for a long time. I had problems giving some of my men's tickets away this year.

[Haldersham]

Re: Frost Arena Capacity?

One more thing and maybe there should be a thread on future enrollements. The redunant comments that the new president has made suggests that the growth rate at SDSU needs to be slowed down, and maybe its just a preliminary statement by President Chicoine. I dont think it matters if we dont reach 15,000 because going D1. It does matter though that we continue a quality education that SDSU has to offer. I do think the New president has a great feeling for quality and he knows pretty much where we should be going. We will get there.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Frost Arena Capacity?

One more thing and maybe there should be a thread on future enrollements. The redunant comments that the new president has made suggests that the growth rate at SDSU needs to be slowed down, and maybe its just a preliminary statement by President Chicoine. I dont think it matters if we dont reach 15,000 because going D1. It does matter though  that we continue a quality education that SDSU has to offer. I do think the New president has a great feeling for quality and he knows pretty much where we should be going. We will get there.

I've been around the political and university scene a longtime (PM me if you want to verify it), and the discussion over enrollment needs some explaining. President Chicoine is smart enough in his short time here to understand the demographics of SD, and our surrounding states. Do either of the two (goon or joeboo22) posters who are talking 15,000 enrollment in 10 years, ever read the news from around the state and especially during the legislative session? Small school consolidation, declining enrollments, and similar signs are everywhere.

I was a firm believer in moving to D-I for a lot of reasons, but as I testified before the Regents when it was debated, holding on to our 10,000-11,000 enrollment is a significant challenge under the trends surrounding us, and dreams of 15,000 or more students at SDSU are just that -- dreams. D-1 wasn't the complete answer, but it helps us to be more competitive in attracting students in a downward spiral which means a better future for SDSU.

Finally, I'm not posting anymore on this thread, because I think it has gotten ridiculous. Frost will someday have to be replaced. As stated before by numerous posters, there are other priorities ahead of it. When the time comes, and the 6,000 seats are not enough, I'm confident future leadership of the same caliber we have now, will get the job done.

[JimmyJack]

Re: Frost Arena Capacity?

[quote author=Haldersham link=1173939865/105#117 date=1174575098]One more thing and maybe there should be a thread on future enrollements. The redunant comments that the new president has made suggests that the growth rate at SDSU needs to be slowed down, and maybe its just a preliminary statement by President Chicoine. I dont think it matters if we dont reach 15,000 because going D1. It does matter though  that we continue a quality education that SDSU has to offer. I do think the New president has a great feeling for quality and he knows pretty much where we should be going. We will get there.

I've been around the political and university scene a longtime (PM me if you want to verify it), and the discussion over enrollment needs some explaining. President Chicoine is smart enough in his short time here to understand the demographics of SD, and our surrounding states. Do either of the two (goon or joeboo22) posters who are talking 15,000 enrollment in 10 years, ever read the news from around the state and especially during the legislative session? Small school consolidation, declining enrollments, and similar signs are everywhere.

I was a firm believer in moving to D-I for a lot of reasons, but as I testified before the Regents when it was debated, holding on to our 10,000-11,000 enrollment is a significant challenge under the trends surrounding us, and dreams of 15,000 or more students at SDSU are just that -- dreams. D-1 wasn't the complete answer, but it helps us to be more competitive in attracting students in a downward spiral which means a better future for SDSU.

Finally, I'm not posting anymore on this thread, because I think it has gotten ridiculous. Frost will someday have to be replaced. As stated before by numerous posters, there are other priorities ahead of it. When the time comes, and the 6,000 seats are not enough, I'm confident future leadership of the same caliber we have now, will get the job done.[/quote]

I'm with Jacks#1fan. Dead horse alert.