OT: hs tourney

[LetsGoRabbits]

as i said the other day, i usually work into the evening so tough to see very much of these games. but i have enjoyed being able to see what i can. since i wrote a bit about bella s before. i have to say WOW she has had a really nice tournament. and it sure appears that she can shoot it for real !! today against STM she was often guarded by timmer or ross both about 6 feet tall and she did not need much room to get her shot off and knock it down. fun to finally get to see her play after hearing about her for so long

i think it is a little tough to predict and project college futures when we do not know for sure the talent levels of competition. certainly they are on the floor with plenty of players who are not the level of the jacks, usd, and other good d1 programs/ players

so i definitely DO NOT want to give impression of criticizing jacks for not going ALL OUT after all these girls. as i said before there is a limit of scholarships and playing time and i guess we kinda gotta give AJ and staff the benefit of the doubt. it seems like the players they have been making offers to have done ok)

that said:

i would understand if the jacks and usd are slightly scared by bella size. they have both really excelled by recruiting long athletic guards. but i was REALLY impressed with her shooting today. maybe just one day but seems like she has had a couple other good shooting days in her career))

REALLY impressed with haliegh. at one point today winner was running full court trap and she made a diagonal pass from about half court to the right of circle to a cutter on left side of hoop with two defenders in her face. actually dont remember if the girl made the bucket but she hit her rignt in stride. that is not a play that just ANYONE can make. she boards she scores she defends. she is gonna have to get used to doing it game in game out against top notch competition but she could be a real real good one!

not gonna do breakdown of everyone i saw but i thought ross from STM looked very impressive also!! i have seen h behrens a few times. DEFINITELY not saying that I KNOW if she can or cannot play for the jacks. that would be unfair with the amount of time i have seen her. she definitely has good size and i do think she is a very good passer. i have consistently see her do that. but i question her shot and her athleticism. but again maybe i saw a couple tough games so i could be way off!! but r ross is in same class same hieght and appears much more athletic. again she has good size and from what i know she is a good kid and hard worker and has time to develop

i wil just say that i have also been impressed with the abdouch girl and izzy ross from OG and leave it at that. said it before and will say again, there seems to be a lot of really good potentially D1 players in SD and you also have lots of talent just outside the borders of SD

wow H Timmer just got the Spirit of Su award. i have known quite a few kids that have won that or been nominated they have all been a BIG blessing to be around so it appears her all around talent goes beyond hoops. CONGRATULATIONS haliegh that is an awesome award!

[LetsGoRabbits]

have not heard of her before today, but what is story with the Bragg girl from Roncali??. watching the class A champ game cuz the hamlin coach is a former colleague. good dude would love to see him win. looks like they have their hands full. Bragg is 6'2 junior appears to be very solid defensively and apparently had a double double against STM in the semifinal

[SteelSD]

Obviously the hardest part of evaluating talent based off the state tournament is there are times when the other players are not the same athletically or physically. I'm am basing anything I post after this off the couple of games of each player I have seen. Obviously this is a limited sample, so take may thoughts with whatever skepticism you see fit...

For example Bragg looked quite dominant as she never really once faced another player that was anywhere near her height. She did appear to have good athletic ability and I think has a decent shot as she shot FT's very well. However, it's hard to really say how good she is as she never really faced another player that was the same type of player. I suspect seeing her in a AAU situation where she matches up against other 6'2" players is needed to truly judge her. She demonstrated some good basketball IQ at times and think she is an intriguing player.

Ross looked athletic and was good when playing against inferior talent. Against AR she was unable to physically dominate Bragg down low and didn't demonstrate the ability to hit an outside shot despite getting plenty of wide open looks from 3 point range. Now this was only two games, but she was very good against inferior competition and made completely irrelevant when her inside game was taken away from her. She is young so obviously can work to develop an outside shot (or maybe this was just an incredibly bad game). Maybe someone who has seen more than 2 of her games can tell me if she is actually a good shooter or just relies on her athletic ability to dominant inferior talent down low. Obviously that won't work at the next level, but again she has time to develop that part of her game.

On the other hand, Ndjakalenga Mwenentanda was easily the most impressive player I saw on the weekend. This kid is an elite talent and unfortunately is likely out of our ability to get at this point. Hopefully create a good relationship and maybe she transfers back in the future. She would likely be in the running for conference player of the year as a true freshman, she is that impressive.

Timmer looked like what I expected of her. She did miss a couple of wide open layups against Roncalli that obviously could have won them the game. However, she almost single handedly kept STM in the game so hard to totally fault her, but those misses were egregious. She is actually seems to have a second gear that I think she could use more on making cuts, etc and will likely have to at the next level. She certainly appears to have the outside game we need but appears to be much more of a 2 guard than a point guard, so will be sharing time with Irwin at that position. But at least should give us some scoring punch off the bench to start and a very solid player moving forward.

I was also very impressed by Abdouch from OG, actually much more so than Ronsiek. She is a good shooter, but was able to actually penetrate and create for herself or teammates. Actually showed a nice little mid range game which is what I want to see more from the point guard position. She demonstrates a high basketball IQ and is a player I will be following closely. I already like the idea of her as our point guard in a few years.

Behrens was a player that left me a bit on the fence. I think the issue I had was I just wasn't seeing that killer attitude in her. There were times when she needed to take the team on her back and make things happen and I felt she was too passive. Frankly I don't think she lacks the physical tools and she looks like a very good shooter. She passes the eyeball test, but just would like to see her be more physical and have the leadership ability to take over when needed a bit more.

Again, take these thoughts with a grain of salt and feel free to disagree. All in all it's great to see this level of talent. Unfortunately other programs see that we have talent here so we are going to have to fight to keep it in state.

[LetsGoRabbits]

hey steel, i think i tried to make clear that it is hard to make predictions because of the talent variable. i totally agree with you!!

regarding bragg, just thought it interesting had not heard of her at all in all the discussions about all the talent in the state and area. because she definitely has the body and build. and she appears to have good athleticism. absolutely tough to gage what she is capable of based on talent of competition, but it did appear to me good athleticism, good defensive instincts and technique and i did not see it but if i heard correct she had a double double against STM who starts with 2 girls 6' tall

ross it was totally her athleticism that stood out. you mentioned about timmer having another gear. i agree her athleticism was not constantly on display but definitely was in moments. ross on the other hand to me looked athletic in everything. again on a floor with timmer and swedlund she stood out as an ATHLETE. best athlete i have seen in girls game this year after CVP, and maybe have same question i said about CVP is she an athlete who plays bball or athletic bball player. you cannot teach 6' or the athleticism so she has couple years to develop the game if that is what she wants

i think you hit nail on head with h behrens. that stood out to me also. really felt like it was not big deal if they won or lost. i am NOT saying that is actually her thinking but her game lacks urgency and competitiveness. IN HER DEFENSE, i do NOT think any the other players for brandon are very good. they would be absolutely terrible without her. so perhaps she has another level if you surround her with better teammates??? like with R Ross you cannot teach 6' and she appears could still grow a little. and she is much more solid and put together than ross, she has really good size. i thought her and bragg stood out as having excellent athletic build. i do not think, however, that she is nearly as athletic as ross

finally, i think you may be really underselling timmer. we have definitely seen enough missed layups this year and would like to see that end!!!! but she totally carried this team all year and in tourney. and regarding competition. pretty sure that STM beat WHS this year and timmer DEFINITELY had a double double in that game. as i recall 27pts. not sure the boards but over 10 and i think at least 5 assists but maybe as high as 8 or 9. of course we will see beginning next year but think she is definitely a PLAYER

and regarding point guard. the jacks have never really employed a sterotypical 1 guard. they create opportunities with player and ball movement not a point guard who facilitates. they also have never had a point guard, ala jacque vaughn who would single handedly beat a press. they do it with passing and cutting. THAT SAID she did get a bit loose at times with her ball handling but i believe she is probably not bad at all!! AND ball handling is the single easiest basketball skill to develop and improve

i absolutely do not think the jacks are going to bring her in and RELY on her to be a creator but i think she would be the 2nd best creator on the team already behind myah ( wow i hope she can be healthy and ready to go well before tourney time next year ) she seems to have good vision and definitely passing ability that not just anybody has. obviously there is ALWAYS a degree of speculation about recruiting and factors like health that nobody can control. hopefully she and all the jacks can be at least close to the best of what the coaches envisioned when they recruited them))

hope this does NOT seem like i am try to disagree with you! i think everything you said is somewhere between reasonable and very insightful. i am just trying to add to the discussion. lots of good kids in the area and makes for very interesting discussion/ anticipation

[GrandpaLee]

Ross will dial-up competitiveness when going to North Tartan for summer ball, just as Gylten, Kirsch, and Timmer have done. Confidence building it is - to misquote Yoda.
Bragg has to ramp up her footspeed and conditioning - maybe she has a medical barrier - came out of the games alot. Possibly a late bloomer to watch for development.

If you define regional recruiting as the states surrounding a university, here are some roster numbers and 2021 records. Confirms again that local players perform better, work harder, for our state universities.

21-3 SDSU 12 locals 19-5 USD 11 locals 8-13 Minn 7 locals 6-1 St Thomas 17 locals, in final DIII season
12-12 Nebraska 1 local 16-6 Iowa State 8 locals 9-11 Creighton 14 locals 16-11 Drake 10 locals

[smoothjack]

Ross will dial-up competitiveness when going to North Tartan for summer ball, just as Gylten, Kirsch, and Timmer have done. Confidence building it is - to misquote Yoda.
Bragg has to ramp up her footspeed and conditioning - maybe she has a medical barrier - came out of the games alot. Possibly a late bloomer to watch for development.

If you define regional recruiting as the states surrounding a university, here are some roster numbers and 2021 records. Confirms again that local players perform better, work harder, for our state universities.

21-3 SDSU 12 locals 19-5 USD 11 locals 8-13 Minn 7 locals 6-1 St Thomas 17 locals, in final DIII season
12-12 Nebraska 1 local 16-6 Iowa State 8 locals 9-11 Creighton 14 locals 16-11 Drake 10 locals

Interesting that Ross needs to travel to Minnesota in order to dial-up her competitiveness. Gylten (Utah), Kirsch (Kearney), and Timmer (SDSU) would have received those exact same local offers playing with an in state club.

Bragg played 30:01 minutes vs SFC (14pts, 5rebs) and 30:15 minutes vs STM (13pts, 12rebs) so maybe she looked tired because she didn't come out of the games?

[SteelSD]

hey steel, i think i tried to make clear that it is hard to make predictions because of the talent variable. i totally agree with you!!

regarding bragg, just thought it interesting had not heard of her at all in all the discussions about all the talent in the state and area. because she definitely has the body and build. and she appears to have good athleticism. absolutely tough to gage what she is capable of based on talent of competition, but it did appear to me good athleticism, good defensive instincts and technique and i did not see it but if i heard correct she had a double double against STM who starts with 2 girls 6' tall

ross it was totally her athleticism that stood out. you mentioned about timmer having another gear. i agree her athleticism was not constantly on display but definitely was in moments. ross on the other hand to me looked athletic in everything. again on a floor with timmer and swedlund she stood out as an ATHLETE. best athlete i have seen in girls game this year after CVP, and maybe have same question i said about CVP is she an athlete who plays bball or athletic bball player. you cannot teach 6' or the athleticism so she has couple years to develop the game if that is what she wants

i think you hit nail on head with h behrens. that stood out to me also. really felt like it was not big deal if they won or lost. i am NOT saying that is actually her thinking but her game lacks urgency and competitiveness. IN HER DEFENSE, i do NOT think any the other players for brandon are very good. they would be absolutely terrible without her. so perhaps she has another level if you surround her with better teammates??? like with R Ross you cannot teach 6' and she appears could still grow a little. and she is much more solid and put together than ross, she has really good size. i thought her and bragg stood out as having excellent athletic build. i do not think, however, that she is nearly as athletic as ross

finally, i think you may be really underselling timmer. we have definitely seen enough missed layups this year and would like to see that end!!!! but she totally carried this team all year and in tourney. and regarding competition. pretty sure that STM beat WHS this year and timmer DEFINITELY had a double double in that game. as i recall 27pts. not sure the boards but over 10 and i think at least 5 assists but maybe as high as 8 or 9. of course we will see beginning next year but think she is definitely a PLAYER

and regarding point guard. the jacks have never really employed a sterotypical 1 guard. they create opportunities with player and ball movement not a point guard who facilitates. they also have never had a point guard, ala jacque vaughn who would single handedly beat a press. they do it with passing and cutting. THAT SAID she did get a bit loose at times with her ball handling but i believe she is probably not bad at all!! AND ball handling is the single easiest basketball skill to develop and improve

i absolutely do not think the jacks are going to bring her in and RELY on her to be a creator but i think she would be the 2nd best creator on the team already behind myah ( wow i hope she can be healthy and ready to go well before tourney time next year ) she seems to have good vision and definitely passing ability that not just anybody has. obviously there is ALWAYS a degree of speculation about recruiting and factors like health that nobody can control. hopefully she and all the jacks can be at least close to the best of what the coaches envisioned when they recruited them))

hope this does NOT seem like i am try to disagree with you! i think everything you said is somewhere between reasonable and very insightful. i am just trying to add to the discussion. lots of good kids in the area and makes for very interesting discussion/ anticipation

To start off, you are certainly free to argue with me. I've seen very few of any of these players overall games and basing things on a small sample size. If someone has more experience with their overall game I certainly relish hearing about it. No one is contacting me to do D1 level scouting, so I am giving limited thoughts on a cursory level of experience with these players.

As for a couple of your points:

We actually do use a fairly standard point guard system for modern BB. LT is the primary ball handler, she just does very little with it when she handles it, and frankly doesn't handle the ball particularly well at all. She is actually more of an off guard as well, but doesn't demonstrate the shooting ability to be that either. Abdouch demonstrates an ability to create both for herself and others with the ball in her hands that neither LT or HG has. And she has a lot of time to grow her game yet.

You seem to have a thing for Ross, and maybe it's well deserved. Again, she had a dominant game and a stinker in the 2 games I watched. The stinker was in a game where someone in the middle was bigger than her and forced her to score by moving outside, and she was unable to. Again, maybe she has the ability to do that but just had a bad game. Idk, would be something I would want to see before I can decide if she is someone who can make it at the D1 level. We have recruited plenty of players who were better athletes than BB players and haven't panned out. I would say the Jordan Ferrarnd is likely the most athletic player on the current roster, yet is not able to get on the court. Tiffaney Flaata was another player who was extremely athletic. And both those players had better size than Ross. Again, I'm not saying Ross isn't better than those two, but based off the two games I've seen I would question it. Maybe you have seen more of her games than I have and have a better perspective.

As for Timmer I'm not sure how I'm underselling her. I've been very complimentary of her and am excited that she appears to be a level of perimeter shooter that we currently don't have on the team. If she can get in the lane even better. However compare her with the ball in her hands to Abdoush and they are not the same thing. I'm hopeful that Timmer can come in and play a lot to start with. I don't know that her ball handling is any worse than LT or HG, so I'm likely fine with her starting day 1 ahead of either of those two.

I agree debate is good. I think any of the kids we have discussed could potentially be good Jackrabbits and would welcome any of them with open arms. It's a nice problem to have so many girls in SD worthy of this type of debate. Frankly, I hope they all end up as Jackrabbits.

[LetsGoRabbits]

good to know that you are open to an argument))) but absolutely not my intent) as i said i think much of what you say has merit and at the very least gives some things to think about

idk that i was really trying to evaluate any player as to if they should or should not be a rabbit. MORE saying that we seem to have a lot of talented hs players in the state. some of them are still young and it will be fun to see how they develop or not going forward

no particular THING for ross)) i totally understand what you mean about athletes/ basketball players. i DEFINITELY think it is important to have basketball players who ARE athletic as opposed to athletes who play basketball. previously i asked this about CVP or white river- does not matter at the moment i guess bc she intends to be a track athlete going forward. but as to ross i guess what i was saying is that her ATHLETICISM kinda jumped off the page in my view. but i did also like her competitiveness.

kind of a natural comparison bc both sophomores both 6ft. between her and h behrends. i think ross is much more athletic. also much more competitive. ross seemed to WANT to make things happen. behrends much more appears oh well i guess is not my day. again i ALSO have not seen them very much and i could be VERY WRONG! they both have time to grow and develop and could both become very very good or not

i like timmer a LOT. i hope i am correct cuz i think she has potential to be an all timer but time will tell

i totally agree with you the jacks do use a fairly STANDARD point guard for todays game. but fairly standard today is NOT a stereotypical point guard who is much more of a facilitator