Marist

[jackdaniel]

Re: Marist

Amazing we have 11 TO's and get walloped. We had 28 of so against ULAR and walloped them.

MontanaRabbit;265010]Amazing we have 11 TO's and get walloped ...(struggle 2nd half offensively, foul trouble, defense not quite good enough, more height and physical post play, TO's and fouls hurt the effort a lot more....team not clicking)

vs.

We had 28 of so against ULAR and walloped them.[/QUOTE]....(defense outstanding,
offense great, less height, win despite TO's...team that's clicking)

Not advocating to's, just saying one stat isn't the whole end all, say all.

[OldHare]

Re: Marist

The Jackrabbits lost to BYU, UALR, and MTSU last year. Each of those was a thumping. Next year they will need to return the favor to Marist as they have for each of those 3 losses last year. We hate to see the WBB lose a game that shoulda, coulda, or woulda seem like a victory before tip. We also keep thinking that the Summit may have an at large bid for the tournament and games like this erase the likelyhood of SDSU consideration for an at large. The Coyotes may have a shot even though their OOC schedule is not as stiff as the Jackrabbits. We hope it is the Coyotes needing an at large concern!

[SanDakotaState]

Re: Marist

The team had an off game. It happens. That loss won't define how good of an ooc the team has played and put together. Also Marist is a very respectable women's basketball team/program. The loss isn't as bad as it seems. Their RPI should be at least top 100 come season's end. Time to move on to UNI and making sure that a game like that doesn't happen again this season.

[jackmd]

Re: Marist

Bad first 10 mins, fantastic 2nd 10 mins. Terrible last 20 minutes. Without naming names it comes down to the upper classman when consistentcy is the issue. There is plenty of talent on this team. Need to see better defensive intensity and consistency on the boards. No way the scoring will be as poor as it was against Marist. That said, defense and rebounding are the key. If this team doesn't take more pride in defensive effort or if the expectation of the younger players isn't focused on defensive effort its going to be a disappointing season.

As for at large bids, not happening for anyone in the Summit league. It's a one bid league. Gotta win the tourney to make the big dance.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Marist

As for at large bids, not happening for anyone in the Summit league. It's a one bid league. Gotta win the tourney to make the big dance.

Simply not true. It takes a damn special season, but it's not impossible. If our 2008-2009 team gets upset in the Summit chipper they get an at large. They were a 7 seed that year. Can't have Marist type games to have any shot.

[jackmd]

Re: Marist

Simply not true. It takes a damn special season, but it's not impossible. If our 2008-2009 team gets upset in the Summit chipper they get an at large. They were a 7 seed that year. Can't have Marist type games to have any shot.

Speculation about the 2008-09 team. We don't know they would have gotten a bid.

Until it happens its a one bid league. Precendent suggests that it will take some tourney wins and an upgrade in the strength of the conference as a whole before that happens. The trend is to give more bids to power conferences and fewer bids to the mid major at-large pool.

If the Summit league gets an at-large bid this year I'll wash the coaches car.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Marist

Speculation about the 2008-09 team. We don't know they would have gotten a bid.

Until it happens its a one bid league. Precendent suggests that it will take some tourney wins and an upgrade in the strength of the conference as a whole before that happens. The trend is to give more bids to power conferences and fewer bids to the mid major at-large pool.

If the Summit league gets an at-large bid this year I'll wash the coaches car.

Do you really think they would have gone from a 7 seed to out of the tourney if they were upset in the Summit Championship? I can't believe you do.

I didn't say they would get an at-large this year.

However, if they would have went into the Summit Tourney with 3 losses and lost in the Championship there could have been a case for an at-large. Much of that is dependent on the seasons Arkansas, MTSU, ULAR, and Wisc Green Bay have however. Until the Marist loss we were developing a darn good OOC resume.

[jackdaniel]

Re: Marist

Do you really think they would have gone from a 7 seed to out of the tourney if they were upset in the Summit Championship? I can't believe you do.

I didn't say they would get an at-large this year.

However, if they would have went into the Summit Tourney with 3 losses and lost in the Championship there could have been a case for an at-large. Much of that is dependent on the seasons Arkansas, MTSU, ULAR, and Wisc Green Bay have however. Until the Marist loss we were developing a darn good OOC resume.

Yes, an at-large has been given out to one bid mid-majors before, it's not unprecedented, (teams like Marist, UWGB, Princeton, MTSU "other" mid-majors who had an outstanding season) in fact the general consensus was that the Jacks, being a top 25 team, with a very high RPI would have surely gotten an at-large in 2009.Cream usually picks them if they don't win their conference too.

Maybe once has a top 25 team not been in the tournament. Agree, this year we have to win the conference auto bid. AJ doesn't schedule the way he does just for seeding, he does it just in case we have another season like we did in 2008-2009 and the unthinkable happens and we lose the conference auto bid. Insurance.

[jackmd]

Re: Marist

Do you really think they would have gone from a 7 seed to out of the tourney if they were upset in the Summit Championship? I can't believe you do.

I didn't say they would get an at-large this year.

However, if they would have went into the Summit Tourney with 3 losses and lost in the Championship there could have been a case for an at-large. Much of that is dependent on the seasons Arkansas, MTSU, ULAR, and Wisc Green Bay have however. Until the Marist loss we were developing a darn good OOC resume.

I think they deserved an at large bid for sure. That doesn't matter. There is a clear bias against granting at large bids to low mid major conferences that don't have a track record of consistently high RPI rankings across at least 1/2 of conference teams. Summit teams have not shown the committee anything since that 2009 first round win by SDSU to suggest a second at large team would make any waves or provide a level of competition to justify excluding a middle of the pack major conference team that competed against higher ranked opponents in the conference season.

The precedent just isn't there to suggest that an at large bid is something Summit programs can count on. The focus has to be on winning the conference tournament. Losses to Marist on the road during the pre-conference schedule stink. However, they have NO IMPACT on the probability of making the big dance. You make the tourney by winning the conference, getting the #1 seed and winning the Summit at the Falls.

Until the selection committee proves me wrong I'm sticking to my guns. The Summit is a one bid conference, men's and women's, that's just the way it is. I sure hope programs like SDSU and USD continue to improve so the rest of the conference improves as well. That is the beginning of creating a multi-bid league. The powers that be may change the rules before that happens.

[jackdaniel]

Re: Marist

I think they deserved an at large bid for sure. That doesn't matter. There is a clear bias against granting at large bids to low mid major conferences that don't have a track record of consistently high RPI rankings across at least 1/2 of conference teams. Summit teams have not shown the committee anything since that 2009 first round win by SDSU to suggest a second at large team would make any waves or provide a level of competition to justify excluding a middle of the pack major conference team that competed against higher ranked opponents in the conference season.

The precedent just isn't there to suggest that an at large bid is something Summit programs can count on. The focus has to be on winning the conference tournament. Losses to Marist on the road during the pre-conference schedule stink. However, they have NO IMPACT on the probability of making the big dance. You make the tourney by winning the conference, getting the #1 seed and winning the Summit at the Falls.

Until the selection committee proves me wrong I'm sticking to my guns. The Summit is a one bid conference, men's and women's, that's just the way it is. I sure hope programs like SDSU and USD continue to improve so the rest of the conference improves as well. That is the beginning of creating a multi-bid league. The powers that be may change the rules before that happens.

We really haven't had a good enough resume since the Mar 2009 team to find out who's theory is the correct one, to be honest. Until we do, and lose in the SLTournament, or have two extremely strong teams with a lot of impressive wins fight it out in the SLT, and the loser getting an at-large, we'll never know.

We are moving in the right direction with Summit teams now scheduling high impact BCS teams, and in the case of IPFW, winning some of them. However, we are still a weak conference in the eyes of the NCAA selection committee.

I think in terms of individual teams determining their own destiney, and being judged on their own merit, you on the other hand think because we are tied to a weak conference that we will never get an at-large, until the whole (ok....half)the conference improves. That is the main point in our different views. Can you honestly say if we had a undefeated season with impressive wins against powerful BCS teams, top 25 ranked, we wouldn't get an an large? An extreme example but I think we would, regardless of what the rest of the League does or doesn't do.

You are correct in saying in a weak league a team has to be clearly a great team, it's harder than being in a Power 5 conference where half your conference losses are forgiven, but, if we played the same teams ooc, they wouldn't be forgiven.
We are graded out by a totally different standard of excellence, although a Power conference schedule is a tremendous grind, very few easy victory's.

[jackmd]

Re: Marist

We really haven't had a good enough resume since the Mar 2009 team to find out who's theory is the correct one, to be honest. Until we do, and lose in the SLTournament, or have two extremely strong teams with a lot of impressive wins fight it out in the SLT, and the loser getting an at-large, we'll never know.

We are moving in the right direction with Summit teams now scheduling high impact BCS teams, and in the case of IPFW, winning some of them. However, we are still a weak conference in the eyes of the NCAA selection committee.

I think in terms of individual teams determining their own destiney, you on the other hand think we are eternally tied to a weak conference and thus never getting an at-large. That is the main point in our different views. Can you honestly say if we had a undefeated season with impressive wins against powerful BCS teams, top 25 ranked, we wouldn't get an an large? An extreme example but I think we would, regardless of what the rest of the League does or doesn't do.

You are correct in saying in a weak league a team has to be clearly a great team, it's harder than being in a Power 5 conference where half your conference losses are forgiven, but, if we played the same teams ooc, they wouldn't be forgiven.

All excellent points. Despite them, I will continue to promote the philosophy that an at-large bid is fantasy for Summit league teams. Its all about the conference tourney title. Playing strong teams during the OOC schedule is critical either way. The committee has clearly demonstrated that ducking quality teams OOC will be penalized at selection time. AJ's and SDSU are doing it right. Now, find a way to win these games. I am confident they will.

[OldHare]

Re: Marist

Does anyone have the numbers handy on the number of Summit teams that play the WNIT over the past ten years? Last year there were 2 teams that included IUPUI and SDSU. It was maybe the first year we had seen 2 Summit teams go to the WNIT. It is in the realm of possibilities that continued improvement of the teams in the Summit could one day produce an at large entry to the NCAA tournament. Will it happen in 2014-15? JackMD is holding the best cards for that argument. No there will not be 2 Summit teams selected in 2014-15. Will it happen by 2019-20? The OOC schedules for many of the teams has included many power conference teams. If ORU, IUPUI, WIU, NDSU, and the South Dakota schools continue to improve and win more of these OOC games, it would be quite logical to achieve what the West Coast Conference has done fielding BYU, Gonzaga, and St Marys(or San diego this year). It will take effort conference wide to make it happen.

[jackdaniel]

Re: Marist

Does anyone have the numbers handy on the number of Summit teams that play the WNIT over the past ten years? Last year there were 2 teams that included IUPUI and SDSU. It was maybe the first year we had seen 2 Summit teams go to the WNIT. It is in the realm of possibilities that continued improvement of the teams in the Summit could one day produce an at large entry to the NCAA tournament. Will it happen in 2014-15? JackMD is holding the best cards for that argument. No there will not be 2 Summit teams selected in 2014-15. Will it happen by 2019-20? The OOC schedules for many of the teams has included many power conference teams. If ORU, IUPUI, WIU, NDSU, and the South Dakota schools continue to improve and win more of these OOC games, it would be quite logical to achieve what the West Coast Conference has done fielding BYU, Gonzaga, and St Marys(or San diego this year). It will take effort conference wide to make it happen.

The better the conference, the better the seed for the Summit representative and the better the chances of an at-large entrant in addition to our auto bid winner.... we have a way to go yet.

[jackdaniel]

Re: Marist

Hypothetically.... take a coach, maybe the best coach ever, and make him a coach of the worst team ever....will anyone ever recognize his talent, gift? Probably not, because people only look at wins, that's all, and wins against who secondly. Would he ever be able to use his genius to turn this team around? The odds are stacked against it. Us turning the Summit into an at-large conference will take a little time, considering where we are at the present time. We are moving in the right direction is all I can say. Oh, oh, I must feel philosophical today.

[91jack]

Re: Marist

Speculation about the 2008-09 team. We don't know they would have gotten a bid.

Until it happens its a one bid league. Precendent suggests that it will take some tourney wins and an upgrade in the strength of the conference as a whole before that happens. The trend is to give more bids to power conferences and fewer bids to the mid major at-large pool.

If the Summit league gets an at-large bid this year I'll wash the coaches car.

I think a #7 seed that was rated during the season wouldn't have been left out but that is just my take. There are bubble teams that are #12 seeds and there is a fairly big gap between a 7-seed and a 12-seed but since it didn't happen to us, who knows.

I'm willing to bet that some of the other mid-major leagues that get more than one bid were one bid leagues once upon a time. So it has (probably) happened, just not in the Summit League.

Isn't the WNIT the tournament just below the NCAA Tourney? We went 4-1 in that tournament last year. IUPUI went to that tournament and went 1-1. If they would have been 3-1, I think some basketball people might have noticed. Not many but if you get some people talking others might look at it, too. It might take a few years but they will catch on. I really think that SDSU and USD will both be really good this year. They both could be better than last year. One of those teams might win 3 or more games in the WNIT again. If we just have a couple of other teams(IUPUI, Western Illinois and 1 other team) win a few post season games, people will start looking.

I don't think SDSU schedule is the same as last year but their final record was 26-10. With a record better than that and WNIT success it is possible.