Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

I did not mean to get into a debate of whether Andy should be playing or not. Sorry. Obviously this board has taken a bad turn, and I apologize as I am probably responsible.

I was trying to make a point that some of our players have been making a lot of mistakes in the minutes they have earned. Some have not made as many mistakes in the minutes they have been earned. I know they are young, but I would like to see some quality basketball-Cadwell seems to be doing fine in this area.

Next, I compared two local players with one of the greatest of all time at SDSU. This was obviously a mistake. Again, I was trying to point out that we have players who have proven they can play, take care of the ball, rebound, and play defense.

These are the things Coach Nagy has always talked about as being the most important. I don't ever remember him ever talking about how dunking or being more athletic was key to winning. He has also talked about effort, which I have not seen a lot of from anyone on the team. Maybe it is old school, but we are not showing a lot of basketball fundamental skills. Even simple things like getting a proper angle to enter the ball into the post are not happening. I think this is partly why Ben has struggled.

I thought Division I basketball was about winning? I know, I know, we are in a transition. But isn't there a way to find a middle ground between playing good basketball and playing for the future.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

Middle ground? Yes I would say it requires patience. How could it be anything else? I can't coach and I certainly can't play BB, so all we can do is watch and support our team no matter how bad they are playing.

By the way (BTW), IMO means "In My Opinion." Some of these chat short cuts or anacroyn's drive me crazy too, but I guess its good shorthand.

[mitchell]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

I think the discussion of why andy is not playing is a good one. I've been thinking that all season. I don't see why people would say that he is not a DI guard, the kid can shoot the lights out. He may not be able to create his own shot, but run a play for him and he will knock down the three every time. When he is in, he seems hesitant, as soon as he gets the ball it seems like he just passes it off. Right now it seem like a lot of players are lost on what their role is on the team.
Also didn't we pass up on Matt Hammer for Kleinjan, I just think Andy needs more playing time to get a better feel.

[joeybrownerhof]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

I am sure he is a very good player as evidenced by his career at Sioux Valley, but why are a few of you so hard over a skinny sub 6.4 guard/forward that is a sub 30% 3 point shooter who can't create his own shot? I am going with Nagy on this one.

Also, you have to give him and his coaching staff credit for getting their current talent. Imagine how hard it is to recruit answering the following questions.

1) What is the average temp like in South Dakota?
2) You mean it isn't next to New Mexico?
3) What conference do you play in?
4) So there won't be a conference championship?
5) There wont be a automatic bid?
6) How long until the transition is over?
7) How many teams that are independents have ever qualified for NCAA's
8) So a 23 win season probably wont be enough if not in a conference?
9) How many credit hours must I take?
10) You won't let me slide on my academics?
11) Well at least the games are televised locally, right?
12) How close to the nearest town that has a clothing retailer other than Maurice's?
13) At least the female coeds are nice to look at? (No, sorry you have to go to the U for that---

Once you guys get into a conference for basketball most of your problems will end,and new ones will begin however I never would put anything past Nagy being able to get it done even if conference affiliation takes longer than expected.

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

Andy Kleinjan did not turn down an invitation to play for the Dakota Schoolers.  

It's obviously in the past, but if he didn't get an offer can you enlighten us and tell us why? You seem to be in the know. A high school player with his success and accolades should have been playing with that team, don't you think?

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

I think some people on this board are overestimating the talent of the South Dakota kids on this team. I look at them as role players and nothing else. I don't think either had many other options. I'm anxious to see what Yackley can do in the next couple of years and think Cordova has the potential to be a contributor. I feel the Begemen kid who went to USD could have helped with his outside shot making ability.

[jackmd]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

I did not mean to get into a debate of whether Andy should be playing or not.  Sorry.  Obviously this board has taken a bad turn, and I apologize as I am probably responsible.  

I was trying to make a point that some of our players have been making a lot of mistakes in the minutes they have earned.  Some have not made as many mistakes in the minutes they have been earned.  I know they are young, but I would like to see some quality basketball-Cadwell seems to be doing fine in this area.  

Next, I compared two local players with one of the greatest of all time at SDSU.  This was obviously a mistake.  Again, I was trying to point out that we have players who have proven they can play, take care of the ball, rebound, and play defense.  

These are the things Coach Nagy has always talked about as being the most important.  I don't ever remember him ever talking about how dunking or being more athletic was key to winning.  He has also talked about effort, which I have not seen a lot of from anyone on the team.  Maybe it is old school, but we are not showing a lot of basketball fundamental skills.  Even simple things like getting a proper angle to enter the ball into the post are not happening.  I think this is partly why Ben has struggled.

I thought Division I basketball was about winning?  I know, I know, we are in a transition.  But isn't there a way to find a middle ground between playing good basketball and playing for the future.

Its clear you think Andy should have had more playing time in the past. The only person who decides this is Nagy. From what I have seen (which is not as much as I would like) Andy seems overmatched at the 2 and undersized for the 3. I would put Gilbert and Holdren ahead of him and I suspect Nagy did have Frias above him on the depth chart until recently. I look forward to seeing more minutes for him and if he takes advantage he will earn more playing time.

As for winning at the DI level, thats obviously the goal at every level. However, you can't win until you have the players in place to compete. We aren't there right now but Nagy is building for the future.

[Rabbitlivinginverm]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

As a Sioux Valley grad, I'm obviosly biased towards Andy but I'll throw my 2 cents in. I think Andy could contribute more to the team offensively, but hasn't capitalized on his few opportunities. I watched him play a few times in H.S., the kid has more heart and desire than people give him credit for. He didn't have much talent around him at Sioux Valley but still scored a bunch of points even though the opposing team new he was the only one who could score. I don't now if he actually is overmatched at this level (as some have asserted) or just hasn't been given the chance to prove himself. The kid can flat out shoot, and I don't think it matters if he has someone in his face. In H.S. he was able to get to the free throw line plenty, but that part of his game has seemed to disappear.

On a side note, I think Nagy was sold on him while watching him put up 50 in two consecutive games in a summer league.

[bub94]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

I will defend Andy with this. Have you seen him the past 3 years with nothing taped on his hand or arm. Hard to shoot with problems with you shooting hand. Andy isn't a big guy so he physical play roughs him up more than most. Would like to see a healthy Andy get a good amount of playing time so he can show people his shot.

[TK22867]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

For those of us in attendance on Tuesday night, did anyone understand the drum-line performance? For those of you who were not there, the drum-line played a normal setup, but over the PA system there was a whole bunch of phone ringing, operator sounds, etc. I know it was part of the drum-line program, but I felt like I should have been tripping out on ecstasy in an underground club in NYC. It was very techno.

That being said, does anyone know anything about this? Were they trying something new? It was just weird. Our drum line is awesome and I'll listen to them anyday, but I hope it was a one time thing especially since a lot of the older folk around me were giving the "what the?" look.

[Jacks02]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

They were playing "Never There" from Cake. I couldn't understand everything coming over the PA, but most of it sounded like phones ringing and whatnot, playing on the "Never There" theme. I'm guessing they've never done it before because they never had a sound system like they do now with the new boards. It was a little over the top, but its the drumline, they're a crazy bunch

[TK22867]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

When you think its humorous that a SDSU player has a muscle cramp or hammy which ever applies, then I dont think you are much older than 13 either. Your opinions are like noses, everyone has one and I dont agree with your high and mighty take on things. It infers that you could do better. Now that is down right annoying to say the least. And I am suppose to respect that crap? No way. You can think what you want about me, but I think you  and your observations are very unfair to say the least.

You keep implying that this team is a mess and yes its lacking experience and to imply that our D2 alums could beat the current team is outrageous to say the least and if that is your observation on what you know, then that does not say a whole lot about yourself.

How is the locker room helped by telling them they are worse than a D2 team? ???

Did I say you were a moron? I dont think so but if you feel as though I was calling you a moron than thats your take and not mine.

Your opinions are down right nasty, and not constructive at  all that I can see. To respectfully agree or disagree with nasty comments is not what I am going to do. Sorry!!!

1. I'm not high and mighty, just sharing my take on things as of Tuesday night. I do consider myself more knowledgeable than your average basketball joe, partly due to my life experiences with the sport.

2. I don't see how you think that I think I could do better. Better at what? So Dick Vitale can't give his opinions and be critical of teams because it makes him sound like he could do better? I think not.

3. We are in our second year of Division 1, with a very young team, and you still don't think our experienced, older D2 teams of Schantz, Cerveny, etc. could compete with this team? IMO, it is not at all an "outrageous" to think that they could. Go ahead and do a 1 on 1 comparison of the starting line-ups and see where you end up at.

4. Last time I checked I didn't walk into the locker room and blab my opinion to them so I'm not sure where you're coming from on this one. If players choose to come on this board and read opinions, that is there own choice.

5. How can you not find any comedy on the Gilbert play where he tried to dunk and pulled his hammy, if he even did that (cramped)? I GUARANTEE you that some of the coaches and/or his teammate gave him crap in the locker room in that one, especially since he came back in the game. It is called ribbing. If you cannot, then I don't think you have ever been in a locker room before, or part of a team. It is not like he pulled his hammy and is out for the year or tore his ACL or anything like that. Please lighten up.

6. If you feel it necessary, we can continue this discussion on the private message boards so everyone else doesn't have to read post after post of you bashing everything I type. Why do you have to take all of this so seriously?

[Cadsev]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

It's obviously in the past, but if he didn't get an offer can you enlighten us and tell us why?  You seem to be in the know.  A high school player with his success and accolades should have been playing with that team, don't you think?

Sure........other players in the same position were offered prior to him and accepted the offers......most of his accolades came after his junior summer.

[Rabbitden]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

I'll give my opinion on this question:

"3.  We are in our second year of Division 1, with a very young team, and you still don't think our experienced, older D2 teams of Schantz, Cerveny, etc. could compete with this team?  IMO, it is not at all an "outrageous" to think that they could.  Go ahead and do a 1 on 1 comparison of the starting line-ups and see where you end up at."

I think they would compete but in the long run I would say we have better talent now.
Maybe not as much heart and drive yet, but talent yes.
This young team will come around. When they get the leadership thing figured out and the will to win, I hope you too will see this.

But wow, did we have some fun teams to watch in the past. ;D