Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

[TK22867]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

SF_Rabbit_Fan:

I pretty much agree with what you have to say. Glad to see someone else is thinking along the lines I am.

Gotta love the play of the game on the jumbotron: Gilbert running down court, all alone with the ball, crowd expecting a big dunk to get us going and all he does is a layup and pulls his hammy at the same time! Now that was comical. Especially since he came back later and looked just fine.

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

I don't see how it's Nagy's fault that a junior point guard and a redshirt freshman 2 guard/small forward can't get it into their heads to maybe slow down and stop forcing plays. Do you think Nagy is telling them to make 30 turnovers combined each game? Casey is a gritty player, but is undersized for the competition we've played so far this year. Gilbert and Frias are 2 of the best athletes on our team. I have been critical of both on almost all of my posts. Heck, it's a 50/50 shot that they will turn the ball over every time they touch the rock at this point. However, we need both of these guys to play this year. We can't bench our best athletes when athleticism is at a premium.

Frias is an old junior and should know better. He shouldn't get as long of a rope. I think Nagy gave him an extended audition last night to see if he would improve after settling into the game. I didn't see that happen. Gilbert is just a freshman and plays like it. He's all flash right now. He needs to get his game in check and using his athleticism within the confines of the system. He is just as athletic as any player for UWM last night. He just continues to make plays like it's Sunday afternoon in the Barn. We just have to hope Nagy can get it into his head that trying to dribble through 3 guys isn't the best way to get a good look at the basket.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

I agree, Andre is the most athletic guy on the team. Athleticism is a great asset, but right now we need basketball players. We have great athletes on our football and track teams, but that doesn’t mean they should be on the floor at Frost.

I’m not saying Andre will not be a good or even great basketball player, but right now he is not helping the team. Maybe he should be brought in slowly, so he can get a feel for college basketball before putting us down by 10 points every single game.

The recruiting game in Division I requires that these guys get some playing time, but at what expense?

JJ Reddick and Patrick Sparks are not great athletes, but both are elite players at big time schools. If you look at most good Division I teams-or basketball teams in general, they have 2-3 players who put up big numbers, and 6-7 guys who play solid defense and don’t make mistakes. (Do Kentucky and Illinois ring a bell?)

The game of basketball goes across all talent levels. Jason Sempsrott was a player with limited athletic talent but huge basketball skill. Basketball is a game of skill and talent; Andre and Jose have plenty of talent. You can be an average “athlete” and still be an outstanding basketball player-if you understand the game and how to play it. This is known as basketball IQ.

It seems like many on this board want style over substance, which is fine if you don’t care about the outcome of games. South Dakota State has always had fans who understand the game of basketball, and they know when it isn’t being played well. I realize we can’t expect to win many games during the transition to Division I, but the team can certainly represent SDSU basketball better.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

I usually don't get into harsh...but I have to say some of the comments by TK22867 were unbelieveable. And if we shouldn't be reading the post for fear of getting riled, then maybe TK shouldn't be attending the games for fear of getting riled. The one that doubled me up was the comment that this year's team would get beat by 30 points by one of our good DII teams. That is just sick. Last night we played a Sweet 16 team (maybe the best team we will face this year) with four returning starters, a team that starts five seniors and the first guy of the bench who hits a 3 is a senior. We started slow, which is a bad tendency this year (confidence at low level may be understandable -- look at the fans on the posts, do you think the team doesn't feel just as low?). But then we play very good for a stretch (trail 20-18) and then can't finish and lose by 25.
Agree with the posts on Jose Frias costing us big time just before half, which was a killer to our morale. Agree with the post that Andre Gilbert is a big disappointment at this point -- although he is one of the most athletic persons on the floor, he just is out of sync most of the time.
Ben Beran scored 26 against Kentucky. Steve Holdren scored 28 against Illinois. Matt Cadwell is just as impressive at this stage of his 7-game college career as Holdren was last year (outstanding newcomer in Division 1 Independents). Don't try telling me this team isn't better than our good D-II teams! The caliber of our opponents makes a huge difference in how you play.
MilwaukeeJack was absolutely 100 percent correct when he talked about Boo Davis and the 3-pointers he made. The last two were defended as tight as you can possibly defend and not knock the guy down and both were nothing but net.
Yeh...we're losing games (and Marquette's performance was as bad as you can get). We haven't figured out how to stop the turnovers which are killing us, and we seem intimidated on offense, which is killing us. But I see flashes of possibility (although Holdren's loss hurts with Cadwell just coming on -- I think Ben would be doing better if both Holdren and Cadwell were playing like they are capable of). I don't like losing either for cripes sakes. 'Nuf said.

[TK22867]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

I usually don't get into harsh...but I have to say some of the comments by TK22867 were unbelieveable. And if we shouldn't be reading the post for fear of getting riled, then maybe TK shouldn't be attending the games for fear of getting riled. The one that doubled me up was the comment that this year's team would get beat by 30 points by one of our good DII teams. That is just sick. Last night we played a Sweet 16 team (maybe the best team we will face this year) with four returning starters, a team that starts five seniors and the first guy of the bench who hits a 3 is a senior. We started slow, which is a bad tendency this year (confidence at low level may be understandable -- look at the fans on the posts, do you think the team doesn't feel just as low?). But then we play very good for a stretch (trail 20-18) and then can't finish and lose by 25.
Agree with the posts on Jose Frias costing us big time just before half, which was a killer to our morale. Agree with the post that Andre Gilbert is a big disappointment at this point -- although he is one of the most athletic persons on the floor, he just is out of sync most of the time.
Ben Beran scored 26 against Kentucky. Steve Holdren scored 28 against Illinois. Matt Cadwell is just as impressive at this stage of his 7-game college career as Holdren was last year (outstanding newcomer in Division 1 Independents). Don't try telling me this team isn't better than our good D-II teams! The caliber of our opponents makes a huge difference in how you play.
MilwaukeeJack was absolutely 100 percent correct when he talked about Boo Davis and the 3-pointers he made. The last two were defended as tight as you can possibly defend and not knock the guy down and both were nothing but net.
Yeh...we're losing games (and Marquette's performance was as bad as you can get). We haven't figured out how to stop the turnovers which are killing us, and we seem intimidated on offense, which is killing us. But I see flashes of possibility (although Holdren's loss hurts with Cadwell just coming on -- I think Ben would be doing better if both Holdren and Cadwell were playing like they are capable of). I don't like losing either for cripes sakes. 'Nuf said.

Well I'll take the high road and not completely slam your post like you did mine, but I would like to point out a couple things.

UWM was good last year, or at least had a strong tournament run, but I wouldn't necessarily guarantee them a Sweet 16 appearance this year. After all, they lost to Tennesee Tech and were handled quite easily by Memphis. I am assuming you mis-posted when you said they were the best team we would face this year. I'm guessing you mean the rest of year, because we can't forget Illinois and Kentucky.

I stand by my post that some of our recent DII teams could easily handle our current team, although 30 points is probably a stretch. More like 15 or 20.

Beran and Holdren each had one outstanding game this year. Let's not put them up their as being fantastic players until they do it on a regular basis (see Beran).

Glad to see we are all having some meaningful discussion on this board, that's what its for! But please, I think we can learn to agree to disagree instead of tearing other's posts apart. Respectfully disagree would be more like it.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

I could be wrong, but I think when we were down big to fight back to within 4 in the first half, the team on the floor was Mac/Heien, Cadwell, Kleinjan, Loney, and Beran/Berte. 3 guys who are scoring threats, and two who have taken care of the ball and played defense. Then the stretch of bad plays by our athletic players, who we need on the floor, to end the half. Substance wins out over style.

[jackmd]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

For what its worth, slowing down the game might result in less turnovers but thats most likely only because of less total offensive possesions. Its really more about the ration of to's/possesions. Losing 60-40 or 95-65 is no different. Just slowing the game down will not result in more wins for this team.

Fact is, we are overmatched against virtually every team on our schedule this year. Every single win will be hard fought and substantial for this team. The UNC game should solidify this for anyone who has doubts.

My opinion, expectation were way too high for an unproven group not use to playing together. Loney, Cadwell, Beran and Berte' make for a good foundation to build on and will be/are decent DI players. Holdren is out. The remainder are nice players but not recruits for any established DI team. Gritty, hard play and a "don't give-up" attitude is what we need to see, not a .500 record.

If this team can survive December intact we might see a few wins in 2006 when the competition is a little less "hefty'.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

SF_Rabbit_Fan:

I pretty much agree with what you have to say.  Glad to see someone else is thinking along the lines I am.

Gotta love the play of the game on the jumbotron:  Gilbert running down court, all alone with the ball, crowd expecting a big dunk to get us going and all he does is a layup and pulls his hammy at the same time!  Now that was comical.  Especially since he came back later and looked just fine.

Now this is what I call true blue loyalty. You are critical because he has a cramp or hammy problem? I think Andre started to show what he can do. He is a red shirt freshman and not Boo Davis. Give the guy a break please. Or is that just blue sky thinking? :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

[SDSUFAN]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

Well I'll take the high road and not completely slam your post like you did mine, but I would like to point out a couple things.

UWM was good last year, or at least had a strong tournament run, but I wouldn't necessarily guarantee them a Sweet 16 appearance this year.  After all, they lost to Tennesee Tech and were handled quite easily by Memphis.  I am assuming you mis-posted when you said they were the best team we would face this year.  I'm guessing you mean the rest of year, because we can't forget Illinois and Kentucky.

I stand by my post that some of our recent DII teams could easily handle our current team, although 30 points is probably a stretch.  More like 15 or 20.

Beran and Holdren each had one outstanding game this year.  Let's not put them up their as being fantastic players until they do it on a regular basis (see Beran).

Glad to see we are all having some meaningful discussion on this board, that's what its for!  But please, I think we can learn to agree to disagree instead of tearing other's posts apart.  Respectfully disagree would be more like it.

Jack #1 Fan:
You have a lot of nerve criticising TK, after he did not want blue sky fans criticizing his point of view. How dare you. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D

[SD-STATE]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

I thought there was a good croud last night, I don't know the figures, but the crowd was very into the game, and it was very exciting. As for the team itself, the Jacks seemed to be a step slower throughout the game. Loney was probably our most consistent player all-around during the game while Cadwell had some flashes. I think our biggest weakness is that we need to hit the outside shots more consistently so we can open up the inside for Beran and Loney.

[TK22867]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

Now this is what I call true blue loyalty. You are critical because he has a cramp or hammy problem? I think Andre started to show what he can do. He is a red shirt freshman and not Boo Davis. Give the guy a break please. Or is that just blue sky thinking? :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

I wasn't being critical towards Andre, I just think it was kind of funny that he pulled his hammy attempting a layup. You do not see that very often. If you cannot find some kind of humor in that, no matter what your loyalty to our team, I am sorry for that. Kind of like Sammy Sosa, who broke a rib while sneezing.

It was odd that they chose that as the play of the game to air on the jumbotron, that's all. I would have chose one of Cadwell's plays.

[TK22867]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

Jack #1 Fan:
You have a lot of nerve criticising TK, after he did not want blue sky fans criticizing his point of view. How dare you. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D

I don't think I said I didn't want anybody criticizing it, I just knew it would upset some people, which obviously it did.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

No it did not upset me. I just consider the source and I must be talking to an NBA player who obviously much smarter and skillful than Nagy and crew. ;D If you have eligibilty, and talent to be a Student athlete be my guest as obviously the ones we currently have are less than you are in terms of contributing to a winning basketball program.

I guess you have a great deal to offer judging by your unfair comments.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

OK TK, I respectfully disagree with your assessment that we would be getting hammered in the NCC this year. We'll never know but there is sure no way to compare our teams in the past and how they would play against the type of competition we face now on a weekly basis.

I don't think we have to wait for Beran and Holdren to show the deserve to be one at least 226 D-1 teams (I'll leave our intended level off the first 100 for a few years). Both proved what they could do last year and both are solid as far as I am concerned (while it is plain that Beran is in a funk right now).

And we can certainly agree that there is no guarantee that UW-M will make the Sweet 16, but they are picked to win the Horizon League, and I believe they will make the big dance.

And you're right, I misposted -- I meant the best team we will play this year in Frost. Currently UM-W is ranked 59th in the Sagarin ratings -- not a bad showing.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee

I must have sticky fingers today. I meant in the previous post that Beran and Holdren could make any of the bottom 226 teams in D-1 (leaving off the top 100). Anybody that expects us to recruit players on a consistent basis (especially in transition years) who would be recruited by the top 100 D-1 teams has some unreasonable expectations in my opinion.

In fact, I would suggest that if we could rank at the midpoint (160) after our transition, we would have been quite successful in making the switch.

Onward and upward!