Brand Name Games

[joeboo22]

Re: Brand Name Games

also one other thing you don't know when this contract was agreed upon or whether there was other reasons to it.... maybe last minute Minnesota had a team backout of a contract and needed a game last minute and CSU was there and the only way CSU would agree to it was for a 1-1.... Montana is notorious for that....

[zooropa]

Re: Brand Name Games

They did a 1-1 with Alabama-Birmingham in the two years before that.

It's possible that these things aren't Tubby Smith's cup of tea, these days. But it's not necessarily so.

[FargoBison]

Re: Brand Name Games

CSU came to Fargo in what was a 2 for 1. We have Fresno coming in a few years which is also a 2 for 1.

UNI is probably another possibility along with Butler or Creighton of the top tier teams we could probably get.

Iowa State's coach is our former head coach, Saul was on his staff at one time, the best he can do is game on ESPNU at their place. Believe me when I say that Saul and NDSU have tried to get better teams into Fargo but it is an uphill battle to say the least.

He has pretty much said that he is content with going to Minnesota on the road every year. A game in Fargo just won't happen, that was clear under Tubby and Monson.

[rcjacks]

Re: Brand Name Games

Meh. Don't know that I put much stock in that.

I'm betting Colorado State had to put some money into its half of the trade, and I wouldn't expect anything different for SDSU.

SDSU might have to pay out more, given that playing a lousy team from a conference like the MWC is better than playing a good team from a conference like the Summit (25% of RPI is opponents' opponents' records)--but I figure a SDSU/SF Sports Authority combo could bid more than Colorado State too.

Not to disparage our Jacks, but if you asked the average college basketbal fan in New York about Colorado State and South Dakota State mens' basketball, most people wouldn't even know SDSU is D1 or they would think you are talking about San Diego State University. Same goes for the average basketball fan in California. Plus, the MWC is a much better conference than the Summit. I know, I know, Oral Roberts beat New Mexico, but top to bottom the MWC is a better conference.

[zooropa]

Re: Brand Name Games

Not to disparage our Jacks, but if you asked the average college basketbal fan in New York about Colorado State and South Dakota State mens' basketball, most people wouldn't even know SDSU is D1 or they would think you are talking about San Diego State University. Same goes for the average basketball fan in California. Plus, the MWC is a much better conference than the Summit. I know, I know, Oral Roberts beat New Mexico, but top to bottom the MWC is a better conference.

Which is why I said that SDSU would probably have to pay out more money.

But it's a comparatively small gap--and as I mentioned earlier, the Gophs did a 1-1 with Alabama-Birmingham in the preceding two year period.

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: Brand Name Games

Which is why I said that SDSU would probably have to pay out more money.

But it's a comparatively small gap--and as I mentioned earlier, the Gophs did a 1-1 with Alabama-Birmingham in the preceding two year period.

Bartow Arena holds less than 9000, but to compare SDSU with a program that generally places in the top three or four teams in the CUSA is a bit of a stretch.

[joeboo22]

Re: Brand Name Games

I believe that if the athletic department and the basketball coaching staff honestly thought they could get a Minnesota or similar foe into Frost Arena or even Sioux Falls they would do it.....

[zooropa]

Re: Brand Name Games

I believe that if the athletic department and the basketball coaching staff honestly thought they could get a Minnesota or similar foe into Frost Arena or even Sioux Falls they would do it.....

They can't get them into Frost. That's a non-starter. SDSU would not spend the kind of money required to get a BCS team into Frost.

They can't get them into the current Sioux Falls Arena. Same problem as Frost--not enough revenue potential--if SDSU won't front the guarantee money for a BCS program, neither will the SF Sports Authority unless there's a decent shot at covering that guarantee money in ticket sales & concessions.

When Sioux Falls gets the new arena, I think you've -definitely- got a package that can be shopped around to various local BCS and basketball schools.

[hoops_guy]

Re: Brand Name Games

BCS schools SELDOM play guarantee games, they don't have to. They will have to play on the road at times, but 98% of the time it will be a neutral site game or at another high-major venue as part of a home and home or some conference chanllenge like the Big 10 - ACC.

In unique circumstances, like Kansas playing at UND for Jeff Boschee, a BCS school will go on the road. Another scenario is a big-time program doing a "favor" for a mid-major program such as playing a 2 for 1, one game at the mid major in exchange for the mid-major coming back twice. Heck, they may even throw $20,000 - $70,000 on top of that to get the mid-major to do the 2 for 1.

Keep in mind, the Jacks could find a way to come up with $100,000 to pay a BCS school to come to SF or Frost, and it would pale in comparison to what a BCS school makes on a home game. There are exceptions to every rule, and you can find some out there, but at the end of the day, it's simple economics.

[LakeJack]

Re: Brand Name Games

Terry talked about this topic in his blog

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs...Id=personaDest

[zooropa]

Re: Brand Name Games

the Jacks could find a way to come up with $100,000 to pay a BCS school to come to SF or Frost, and it would pale in comparison to what a BCS school makes on a home game.

OTOH, most of the seat revenue for a basketball school is from season tickets, not walk up sales; which means that a certain amount of revenue is guaranteed regardless of whether the team plays 18 home games during the season or 19.

That means a guarantee must cover: lost walk-up sales and lost concession revenue minus (of course) the costs of using the facility, as well as travel costs and perhaps some additional palm grease.

Some basketball schools will see things that way, other schools will not. The ability to put together a common-sense and financially profitable package is no guarantee that a program's coach & AD will buy into it. OTOH, the fact that a basketball program has a certain amount of prestige is no guarantee that they will balk at such a deal either.

A new arena would make it possible for the Jacks to put a return trip on the table as part of their negotiations with basketball schools.

In any event, I think the Jacks need to seriously reconsider the number of guarantee games that they play, as it really skews perception of the program---both inside and outside of it.

[joeboo22]

Re: Brand Name Games

OTOH, most of the seat revenue for a basketball school is from season tickets, not walk up sales; which means that a certain amount of revenue is guaranteed regardless of whether the team plays 18 home games during the season or 19.

That means a guarantee must cover: lost walk-up sales and lost concession revenue minus (of course) the costs of using the facility, as well as travel costs and perhaps some additional palm grease.

Some basketball schools will see things that way, other schools will not. The ability to put together a common-sense and financially profitable package is no guarantee that a program's coach & AD will buy into it. OTOH, the fact that a basketball program has a certain amount of prestige is no guarantee that they will balk at such a deal either.

A new arena would make it possible for the Jacks to put a return trip on the table as part of their negotiations with basketball schools.

In any event, I think the Jacks need to seriously reconsider the number of guarantee games that they play, as it really skews perception of the program---both inside and outside of it.

you forgot the 2 big things..... 1. the TV contract that most BCS schools have... I just don't see Keloland paying what the Big 10 network or ESPN U would be paying the big schools for the game...

and 2.... the majority of these teams have 1 thing on there mind (other then making money) is too make it to the tournament.... they do not want to get upset at a school like SDSU so THEY will not play a school like SDSU anywhere but at home....

Look at Gonzaga they premier "mid-major" school, after YEARS of playing anyone anywhere they are finally starting to get a few teams to come to Spokane... This year they got Wake Forest and Washington State to come on campus and Oklahoma to come to Spokane Arena.... Gonzaga is a top 25 team, with national knowledge of its school, private with money and can still only get a handful of quality games at home each year.....

In the end you have 2 chances to get a big school to come to your place.... 1. get lucky, hope a big school has a team back out late, needs a game, and they call you and the schedule works, and you say 1-1 no buyout and they have to agree

or 2. become a consistent top 25 team, play anybody, anywhere, and after the media starts doggin on your opponents for not willing to come to your place to play a game you might see a few opponents start trickling in....

as far as the guarantee games, yeah the Jacks should probably limit them and I think in the future they will but I think the payday games are in response to the options for a particular year, this year the Jacks could of got payed to go somewhere, played a home game against a lower level opponent, or found a 1-1 or 2-1 but wouldn't be allowed to have the home game next year... (argus article where Nagy said next years home schedule is already full and will probably have to push a few games until the following year)

I can also understand not wanting to go to USC to play a payday game but I don't think going to Minnesota is a confidence buster by any means.... and its in the region against a good opponent and it cost little to get there....

[filbert]

Re: Brand Name Games

(raises hand)

I have a question . . .

How many road guarantee games did the Jacks actually play this year?

I see one: Minnesota. The only other games which aren't part of a home-and-home were the tournament games vs. Purdue, Boston College, and E. Carolina.

The away Wyoming and Nevada games are--I believe--part of a home-and-home (or possibly a 2-for-1) deal. All of the other games are--I'm pretty sure--part of home-and-home deals except for the Mayville State and SW Minnesota games which are guarantee for the visiting lower-division schools.

There's nobody in the Summit League who doesn't play one or more guarantee games.

Here (via Yahoo/Rivals and fifteen free minutes of mine) are the away "name" games that the conference teams have played this season (using FBS schools + the Big East and A-10 basketball schools as proxies for "name" institutions):
IUPUI:
Auburn
Kansas State
Notre Dame
Memphis

ORU:
Wake Forest
Stanford (first round of Cancun classic-at Stanford)
Virginia
Louisville

Oakland:
Wisconsin
Kansas
Memphis
Michigan State
Oregon
Syracuse

UMKC:
Nebraska
St. Louis
Missouri

Centenary:
Marquette
Louisiana-Monroe
Oklahoma
Louisiana Tech
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Louisiana-Lafayette

NDSU:
Idaho
Fresno State
Iowa State

IPFW:
Wisconsin
Washington State
Gonzaga
Toledo
Michigan State

Western Illinois:
Arizona State
Kansas State

Southern Utah:
Hawaii
Utah State
Nebraska

Now, look at SDSU:
Wyoming
Nevada
Minnesota
(Boston College and Purdue were neutral-floor tournament games, remember . . .)

I may have missed one or two A-10 games, but I think the point is that SDSU is not over-scheduling road games with "name" teams, relative to what the other members of the conference are doing. In fact, I think it could be more easily argued that SDSU is not scheduling enough of those games, again relative to what the rest of the conference is doing. I don't know how many of these games are guarantee and how many involve some kind of return game, but I'd wager that many if not all of the other Summit League members play at least one guarantee game every year.

[zooropa]

Re: Brand Name Games

you forgot the 2 big things..... 1. the TV contract that most BCS schools have... I just don't see Keloland paying what the Big 10 network or ESPN U would be paying the big schools for the game...

and 2.... the majority of these teams have 1 thing on there mind (other then making money) is too make it to the tournament.... they do not want to get upset at a school like SDSU so THEY will not play a school like SDSU anywhere but at home....

You should stop making categorical statements

1) Not every home game is televised on a national network. Especially not the non-conf games

2) Minnesota went to Colorado State. I will continue to mention this whenever someone says that basketball schools -never- travel to play down a level.

As far as the 'Zags are concerned, perhaps they're being unrealistic in their expectations. Demanding 1-1s with no money on the table, etc.

The 'Zags coaches bristle at the mention of 'mid-major', and if that carries through to negotiation tactics, it wouldn't surprise me if they refuse to engage in the kind of palm-greasing and concessions required to get a power conference school to Spokane.

[SturgisJeff]

Re: Brand Name Games

I wouldn't mind seeing Daktronics and the Sioux Falls Sports Authority and even Sanford put up some money and have a holiday tournament with four or six big mid majors or some smaller BCS schools come to Sioux Falls with SDSU and NDSU or USD.