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**filbert** · 01-16-2006, 05:24 PM

Re: North Dakota State

A very charitable post, Silk.

It's people like you who make a rivalry tough to start. ;D

**SDSUFAN** · 01-16-2006, 08:44 PM

Re: North Dakota State

Originally posted by silkamilkamonico

IMHO, this is a pretty ignorant comment. �

If it sounds ignorant well then I guess a coach that has won 76 per cent of his games at SDSU must be ignorant,as he made this comment about his own players, who have played as true and red shirt freshman. Players like Casey Estling, Bill Fischer, all the way up to a current player named Ben Beran have played exceptionally well in their first year only to level off to a certain degree. Right now the Bison fans have one 30 pt victory and they seem to feel they have the strength and power to make it to the final four.

What I am saying is that these guys may have a good year this year, but the novelty of making big plays will soon affect them. I do not see that as ignorance but the reality of experience.

**Jacks99** · 01-17-2006, 07:45 AM

Re: North Dakota State

I think it's being misunderstood.

I would agree that freshman that are playing "hot" their first year are likely ahead of the learning curve and "level" off. Meaning they will play better as soph, but not improve as much as say a freshman like Gilbert who is rough around the edges but a great athlete with potential. It's in the Soph and Junior years that players like Gilbert will "catch up".

**silkamilkamonico** · 01-17-2006, 12:33 PM

Re: North Dakota State

Originally posted by SDSUFAN

If it sounds ignorant well then I guess a coach that has won 76 per cent of his games at SDSU must be ignorant,as he made this comment about his own players, who have played as true and red shirt freshman. �Players like Casey Estling, Bill Fischer, all the way up to a current player named Ben Beran have played exceptionally well in their first year only to level off to a certain degree.

My fault. I took your "slowing down" comment as regressing. I don't feel there's any chance our team regresses, although I can't say it's not impossible.

I do feel, however, that the team will continue to improve, just like you guys. I know SDSU is only playing 6 or so scholarship players right now, and that's tough. The Bison are playing 8, which will increase next year also with Vaughn, Sussenguth, and Pennick, and Lunde hopefully healthy. That will only help both programs, especially in depth and competition for playing time.

NDSU has by far surpassed our expectations this year, mainly because nobody really knew what to expect. I wouldn't expect the same kind of jump as far as improvement, but I would expect the team to become better and better as time goes on. Our young guys are the team, and they don't have the option of sitting around waiting for a more experienced player to make the play.

Originally posted by SDSUFAN

�Right now the Bison fans have one 30 pt victory and they seem to feel they have the strength and power to make it to the final four.

I think that's being a little absurd. I certainly understand the situation, as well as numerous fans I've talked with, as well as the message board posters. The majority of NDSU fans that I know anyways are very well aware that under the right circumstances we could go to SDSU next month and lose by a margin similiar.

In rivalry games, you can throw the records out the window because players play with extreme emotions. NDSU had that, as well as the crowd, as well as a depleted SDSU team, and a 30 point blowout is what happened. I don't know what your health situation will be, but SDSU will have your own fans, and certainly be playing with a chip on the shoulder. That in itself is a dangerous combination.

Originally posted by SDSUFAN

What I am saying is that these guys may have a good year this year, but the novelty of making big plays will soon affect them. I do not see that as ignorance but the reality of experience. �

I see that as more of a possibility of experience. It's always very feasible that the team just keeps improving and improving, and could be very dangerous D1 team in 2-3 years.

Experience has shown to work both ways. I do understand one thing though, if NDSU (and SDSU for that matter), continue to get these kind of recruits year in and year out, the quality of the program will undoubtedly increase, because these players will be practicing with higher level of competition, as well as an increase in intensity and the speed of the game.

**SDSUFAN** · 01-17-2006, 05:31 PM

Re: North Dakota State

Some more after thoughts and I know I am repeating myself, but I cant get them off my mind.

After watching the NDSU game, I still think there was a major breakdown in defending the perimeter. Coach Nagy in the post game interview alluded to some changes in defense schemes he made last week in practice. What those changes were I have no idea, but something was not working. When a so-so shooter like Phil Hahn goes out and sinks 4 three pointers in a row, something went very wrong, as the guy was wide open when the ball left his hands.

I hope we got a practice in and some time to look at film and find out what exactly went wrong and adjust accordingly.

�We were down 21 at half and those Hahn buckets put the game away. Also they seem to have Woodside covered pretty good for the first 5 minutes of the game and somehow he found himself open several times plunked down threes and made some layups besides.
Granted he is a very good player, but he is also stopable.

The last 10 minutes of the first half were a disaster as not only was Woodside open, but others were too. ??? ??? ???

Somehow we just were not prepared for the offense that NDSU was running. I am really at a mystery for answers. Our new guys found out how intimidating BSA with its student crowd can be and next time, maybe they will be torked up a notch or two in confidence and play to win like we have done in the past.

The stat that puts NDSU ahead of SDSU at this point in time is the differences in assists. NDSU had 21 and SDSU had 6. Should we be surprised the final score was 30 pts. I guess it could have been worse. :-X

I would offer these comments rather than pick at coaches and players. Its a case where not everyone was on the same page.

Finally I give the NDSU coaching staff the credit for having a very good game plan. I think the respect and the closeness of Coach Miles to Coach Nagy probably gives them an edge in game planning. They obviously knew what would work against the Jacks ;D

**JACKGUYII** · 01-17-2006, 06:10 PM

Re: North Dakota State

Nagy at a luncheon in Sioux Falls Monday indicated he needs to recruit players that can flourish under his style of coaching. He isn't going to change nor should he.He cited Cam Hornby as a player who can take anything that Nagy or the coaching staff dishes out. That style has produced a lot of wins over the years and I don't care at what level those wins came at. We aren't winning because we don't have the talent in relation to the competition. That will change over time IMHO. Nobody on the coaching staff predicted we would have instant success. If the coaching staff made any mistakes it was putting together too difficult of a schedule this soon when we don't have the talent or depth to compete. To pretend that if the coaching staff was more gentle or compassionate that we would be getting more out of them or somehow they would become more talented is insane. The departure of players from a program is a constant at every program and more prominent at the DI level. I can't imagine it's been easy to recruit high level players when we have no conference membership, no NCAA postseason NCAA opportunities. I appreciate the variety of opinions and the passion both positive and negative for the Jacks to be competitive as soon as possible. We have high expectations for our basketball programs and that is a good thing! You hardly saw any posting about Bison Basketball over on their site until their recent bit of success and now their are a lot of people on the bandwagon which is good for the rivalary.

**jackrabbit1979** · 01-18-2006, 07:07 AM

Re: North Dakota State

Great post Jackguy II, the only part i would question is how NDSU suddenly started outrecruiting SDSU the last two years. They are in the same situation as us with no conference, no NCAA eligibility, etc, and have seemed to recruit the quality of athletes necessary to win at this level (they hung a 20+ point win on UMKC last night). With our coaches record, facilities, basketball tradition, attendance, there is no way that should happen. Maybe it is was just luck that they had some pan out and we didn't so far, i don't know for sure.

**filbert** · 01-18-2006, 07:54 AM

Re: North Dakota State

The last word on NDSU, perhaps? I think it's safe to say that the Bison are a very hot basketball team right now:

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...y/13649698.htm

UMKC can�t overcome rough start
The Associated Press

FARGO, N.D. � Tough night for UMKC? You betcha.

The Kangaroos could not recover from a dismal first half in its 87-63 loss to North Dakota State on Tuesday. The Bison led 45-17 at halftime.

Quinton Day, who was scoreless in the first half, led all scorers with 24 points for the Kangaroos, 8-9.

He was eight of 21 from the field and three of three from the free-throw line. Day also had five assists.

**SD-STATE** · 01-18-2006, 08:27 AM

Re: North Dakota State

Great post Jackguy II, the only part i would question is how NDSU suddenly started outrecruiting SDSU the last two years. They are in the same situation as us with no conference, no NCAA eligibility, etc, and have seemed to recruit the quality of athletes necessary to win at this level (they hung a 20+ point win on UMKC last night). With our coaches record, facilities, basketball tradition, attendance, there is no way that should happen. Maybe it is was just luck that they had some pan out and we didn't so far, i don't know for sure.

Just a thought, something to chew on, could it be that Nagy might have gotten a little lazy in recruiting. Maybe banking on his coaching record, facilities, tradition, attendance in past years. Maybe he hasn't really done ALL that he needs to bring in the best players as of late. Injuries and transfers aside, as has been said before all programs go through this.

**hoops_guy** · 01-18-2006, 08:38 AM

Re: North Dakota State

For years, SDSU got the pick of any DII recruit (also meaning low DI recruits) in the area/region. Why?... a number of reasons... 1) Good tradition that became "very good" if not "great" under Nagy. 2) Great facilities, crowd support and environment in Frost. 3) With the combination of those things and better resources than those SDSU recruited against, they became THE place for good DII and low DI kids to go to in this region.

Since the move to DI, being "SOUTH DAKOTA STATE" doesn't carry the same prestige at the DI level it once did at DII. Now it falls solely back on the actual ability to recruit. You can talk all you want about X's and O's when it comes to coaching, but at the DI level those X's and O's had better be taught to some talented young men. If you look at the talent difference in the first two recruiting classes for SDSU and NDSU, there is no comparison. Cadwell is solid and Holdren is very good. Outside of those two, with the exception of Gilbert's raw ability, the classes don't compare to NDSU's in overall ability and talent.

Coach Nagy did a great job when he had the best of the best at his level to recruit with, he now has to demonstrate he can recruit with resources that are at least matched or exceeded by those he is recruiting against. Miles has clearly demonstrated that he has the ability to recruit DI talent. Nagy has to close that gap!

SDSU may stick it to NDSU in Brookings, but I believe that does not change the differential in talent. Both guys can coach, but the one with the better talent will win more consistently over the long run!

This post is not meant in any way to take away from the success coach Nagy has had over his years at SDSU. It is simply meant to show that the landscape has changed for SDSU in Men's Basketball and they will have to adjust accordingly. NDSU seems much more prepared and they did not have close to the level of tradition SDSU had at the DII level.

**SDSUFAN** · 01-18-2006, 11:53 AM

Re: North Dakota State

Originally posted by hoops_guy

Since the move to DI, being "SOUTH DAKOTA STATE" doesn't carry the same prestige at the DI level it once did at DII. �Now it falls solely back on the actual ability to recruit. �You can talk all you want about X's and O's when it comes to coaching, but at the DI level those X's and O's had better be taught to some talented young men. �If you look at the talent difference in the first two recruiting classes for SDSU and NDSU, there is no comparison. �Cadwell is solid and Holdren is very good. �Outside of those two, with the exception of Gilbert's raw ability, the classes don't compare to NDSU's in overall ability and talent.

Coach Nagy did a great job when he had the best of the best at his level to recruit with, he now has to demonstrate he can recruit with resources that are at least matched or exceeded by those he is recruiting against. �Miles has clearly demonstrated that he has the ability to recruit DI talent. �Nagy has to close that gap!

SDSU may stick it to NDSU in Brookings, but I believe that does not change the differential in talent. �Both guys can coach, but the one with the better talent will win more consistently over the long run!

This post is not meant in any way to take away from the success coach Nagy has had over his years at SDSU. �It is simply meant to show that the landscape has changed for SDSU in Men's Basketball and they will have to adjust accordingly. �NDSU seems much more prepared and they did not have close to the level of tradition SDSU had at the DII level.

Wow, I take hoops here is one of many euphoric NDSU Bison fans.

;D

What year are are both NDSU AND SDSU in in terms of the 5 year D1 reclassification period? I believe its year 2, but you speak of as a decade of bad recruiting for SDSU and great recruiting for NDSU. I would not be so certain about NDSU superiority at this point. One 30 pt blowout and suddenly, we have a SDSU coach that can not recruit. I just dont buy that.
See you on February 18th.

**hoops_guy** · 01-18-2006, 12:01 PM

Re: North Dakota State

I will say I am far from a "euphoric bison fan". I am as objective as anyone could be with respect to these two programs. I am not a Jack fan either, but have a great deal of respect for the tradition the program has. To sit here and not acknowledge the obvious differences that currently exist between the programs is much more "euphoric" for the Jack fans than to consider it bragging by a bison fan.

**hoops_guy** · 01-18-2006, 12:07 PM

Re: North Dakota State

Also, to say that anyone said coach Nagy could not recruit is an absolute fallacy. I simply made the statement that there are now hurdles to overcome in the recruiting process that did not exist when SDSU was at the DII level. Nagy demonstrated his ability as an exceptional recruiter at the DII level, but as I said, the "SDSU" name doesn't carry the same weight at the DI level that it did at the DII level and that is more to overcome than people first realized.

**JH81** · 01-18-2006, 12:19 PM

Re: North Dakota State

**JACKRP** · 01-18-2006, 01:33 PM

Re: North Dakota State

Comments from recent posts indicate that many now feel that the coaching staff has made a mistake in scheduling a very difficult schedule this year for the Jackrabbit basketball team. So how can we justify that thought process from the many previous posts that theorized "that to be the BEST you have to play the BEST". What has changed since all those posts.
Go Jacks!!!