Summit top 15 players, etc....

[TeaJackrabbit]

This is from the former Oakland beatwriter Pemberton. He's a homer but he also seems to like SDSU this year. A good read...

http://pembertonpoint.blogspot.com/

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Summit top 15 players, etc....

Also make sure to scroll down and look at some of his predictions on Oaklands schedule (he breaks down OU's schedule, game-by-game)...

[Kemo]

Re: Summit top 15 players, etc....

He seems like a fairly credible source for Summit League information, and it's hard for him not to a little bit of a homer due to how talented of a team Oakland has this year.

He does need to make an edit in his season schedule predictions though, as Memphis's mascot is the "Tigers" and not the "Wildcats".

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Summit top 15 players, etc....

Pemberton did a nice job with Oakland. Are we assume the Pistons job is a promotion? If so congrats, and I hope TV doesn't get any crazy ideas.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Summit top 15 players, etc....

I agree, when talking top Summit players you have to put JJ, Benson, Nelson pretty high at the top and then you can't ignore Hamilton or the St. Johns transfer Wright. And like I've said before, they have 2-3 guys on the bench that would start for quite possibly every other Summit school.

I also agree that Oakland should and could pull an upset on one of their elite opponents. I guess I would pick Wisconsin or Syracuse.

The ORU people were all upset about someones prediction that had SDSU #2 and Chad White as the newcomer of the year. They questioned if it was our or NDSU's beat writer and I said that is not accurate b/c our beat writer is very objective and NDSU's wouldn't give us that much credit.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Summit top 15 players, etc....

Pemberton did a nice job with Oakland. Are we assume the Pistons job is a promotion? If so congrats, and I hope TV doesn't get any crazy ideas.

Dude, TV already covers the Skyforce. The SKY-FORCE man! I'm being sarcastic....there was a time I would follow/attend Skyforce games (even worked for them for a year) but now it just annoys me and I wish they would move on.

All kidding aside, I think w/ TV's passion and work ethic that the sky is the limit for him.

[Old Titan]

Re: Summit top 15 players, etc....

The ORU people were all upset about someones prediction that had SDSU #2 and Chad White as the newcomer of the year. They questioned if it was our or NDSU's beat writer and I said that is not accurate b/c our beat writer is very objective and NDSU's wouldn't give us that much credit.

Hey, don't throw every ORU fan under the bus with that quote. It was actually only one obnoxious ORU fan who said that: ME!

Whoever finishes #2 in the regular season is going to have to win at least HALF of their road games. ORU and IUPUI (under their current coaches) have proven year in and year out they can win road games in hostile environments in conference.

Until SDSU proves it can do the same, I can think of no reason why they should be predicted to finish ahead of logical #1 choice Oakland OR the other two schools. It's not about returning talent; it's about COACHING.

A #4 finish for SDSU is a much more rational pre-season prediction: it acknowledges the progress the program made last year, while taking into account the as-of-yet unresolved issue of not winning on the road.

[Kemo]

Re: Summit top 15 players, etc....

Hey, don't throw every ORU fan under the bus with that quote. It was actually only one obnoxious ORU fan who said that: ME!

Whoever finishes #2 in the regular season is going to have to win at least HALF of their road games. ORU and IUPUI (under their current coaches) have proven year in and year out they can win road games in hostile environments in conference.

Until SDSU proves it can do the same, I can think of no reason why they should be predicted to finish ahead of logical #1 choice Oakland OR the other two schools. It's not about returning talent; it's about COACHING.

A #4 finish for SDSU is a much more rational pre-season prediction: it acknowledges the progress the program made last year, while taking into account the as-of-yet unresolved issue of not winning on the road.

Your rational for pre-season rankings is fair enough, and I'd say many publications have had a similar thought process to yours when ranking the Summit League... but if everyone made the same predictions with the same reasoning behind them, preseason talk would be pretty boring.

[zooropa]

Re: Summit top 15 players, etc....

it's about COACHING.

Bearing in mind that's my rationale for picking ORU ahead of SDSU (Oakland/ORU/SDSU), I think you're overstating SDSU's road woes.




It's altogether too easy to look at SDSU's road losses and say, 'there's a team that can't win on the road' without taking a closer look to see that SDSU was kept back from at least 5 road wins by flukes and inexperience (for instance, the 5 point lead they coughed up in the final two minutes against your program in Tulsa).

In short, this is a team that is poised to break out on the road this year.

And I'm not saying that strictly as a Jacks fan, I'm saying that as someone with, I trust, enough objectivity to see the narrow narrow margin that separated the Jacks from road respectability last year.

I also trust that it's objectivity that takes note that SDSU didn't graduate any starters, and is bringing in a very solid freshman class.



Sutton is a good coach, undoubtedly, but I would advise you (and all ORU fans in general) to reflect the respect that Sutton, Hunter, and Kampe have of Nagy's coaching chops.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Summit top 15 players, etc....

Old Titan - good points.....I would agree as I have SDSU finishing 4th this year as well......1.) OU 2.) IUPUI 3.) ORU.

I understand the not winning on the road criticism. It is real and it is fair. I guess it doesn't matter if SDSU lost every road game last year by a half court buzzer beater, the fact would still remain that they lost every game. But look at some of these outcomes last year alone in road games;

Nov 29 Central Florida (in Cancun) - Jacks lose by 2 despite leading for most of the second half.

Dec 13 Denver - Jacks lose by 2.

Jan 15 UMKC - Jacks lose by 2. Sargent misses a late three and Williams misses a real short putback to tie it as the buzzer sounded.

Jan 17 SUU - Jacks lose in OT by 5. Jacks led by 3 w/ 3.0 seconds to go but SUU drained a looong three to send it to OT.

Feb 7 WIU - Jacks lose by 3 on a halfcourt buzzer beater. Jacks led by 7 w/ under 3 minutes to play but WIU scores final 10 points of the game.

Feb 21 Cal-Poly - Jacks lose by 4 as a last SDSU 3-pointer goes in and out. SDSU led by as many as 5 in the second half.

Feb 26 ORU - Jacks lose by 5. Jacks led by 5 w/ 7 minutes to go. Despite missing second leading scorer Sargent, SDSU led late and ORU scored final 10 points of the game.

That's seven games that could have gone either way (and that doesn't count the OT loss at home against NDSU). Two things that contributed to so many of those close losses is (hopefully) much improved this year; 1.) SDSU didn't have much depth and wore down late in games, as is obvious by so many late game meltdowns. 2.) I don't think they believed they could win on the road. This year I think SDSU gets off the snide w/ a early road win and the confidence grows from there. In fact, of SDSU's first 5 conference road games, 4 are very winnable and SDSU should be the favorite in at least two (@ IUPUI, @ WIU, @ UMKC, @ SUU, @ NDSU).

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Summit top 15 players, etc....

Also Old Titan, I would argue that we too have a very good coach. I give the top guys Sutton, Kampe and Hunter alot of love. They are great coaches. But we're pretty happy w/ who we have and I feel the program will get back to it's winning ways this year after a very tough transition the past 5 years. Nagy has weathered the storm and is now pulling some real good players into the program. SDSU is once again a attractive option for kids. I don't care how good of a coach you are, you still need good players. Nagy is getting good players again. Also helping out will be the fact that he finally has some senior leadership this year and the next few years.

Again, if we turn some of those close losses into wins we suddenly go to a team that could possibly win 20 games. I think that's a bit of a stretch this year (unless alot of things go our way) but SDSU hitting the 20-win plateau would be huge.

Look at how we fared against the "big dogs" last year:

NDSU (0-2):
Blown out on the road and we lost at home in OT.

Oakland (1-2):
Lost to them on the road by 5, beat them at home and lost to them in the tourney.

ORU (1-2):
Lost to them at home by 9, lost a real close game on the road, beat them in tourney.

IUPUI (1-1):
Blew them out at home, lost by 8 on the road.

[91jack]

Re: Summit top 15 players, etc....

Old Titan- You have some solid points. I'm(like most other people here) a SDSU fan. I like to think I'm not biased but who knows. As TeaJackrabbit pointed out, SDSU was in several road games last year. Will they win them next year with the same crew, who knows. SDSU has added Wolters this year. I think he'll add another solid option to put in late in the games that can close out games from the line. Along with the other new players and a year of experience for everybody else, I'd hope they turn that corner. Other teams lost players which should just make SDSU better by addition by subtraction.
SDSU has shown a lot of improvement over the last 2 years.
2 years ago- SDSU lost by a total of 141 points in their 9 conference road games. They lost by 29, 23, 28, 27 and the other 5 games were by a total of 34 points. That's by and average of about 7 points/game.
Last year- SDSU lost by a total of 89 points(I called the OT game a wash because it was after regulation). They lost by 34, 22 and the other 7 games were by a total of 33 points. That's by an average of 5 points/game.
I think SDSU will lay an egg(Oakland) but the other games should be competitive. If they improve anywhere near like they did last year(52 points total), they'll be right there.
Winning half their road games should be a low expataition.

[LakeJack]

Re: Summit top 15 players, etc....

Ya the Jacks had their road woes last year. But how many Summit League teams beat a Big 12 team on the road last year?

SDSU 65 - Iowa State 58

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Summit top 15 players, etc....

Ya the Jacks had their road woes last year. But how many Summit League teams beat a Big 12 team on the road last year?

SDSU 65 - Iowa State 58

I know....how can you beat Iowa State in Hilton (not to mention we played the Gophers very tough in the barn) and lose at UMKC and Centenary. Again, I chalk it up to fatigue and inexperience and lack of confidence.

[bub94]

Re: Summit top 15 players, etc....

Old Titan is putting too much stock in the lack of a conference road win when deciding the talent of the players the Jacks have. The team hasn't had the depth. I think he will be really surprised when the end of the season comes.