Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Southwest Minnesota St.

[Jacks02]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Southwest Minnesota

What does trouble me is out of the 5 or 6 red shirt freshman that are now making big impact at NDSU,  at least three are from the same area of recruiting that SDSU covers. Why did we at least snag one of these recruits. Ben Woodside is from Albert Lea, Minnesota. Its in our own back yard. These are details that I sure would like to to know. Did we have him in our sights or did we just write off as unrecruitbable? Last year we red shirted two and this year four, will it be six next year? Something is very wrong here.

Recruiting is always going to be a crapshoot. You can watch a player for every game through high school and think he's sure thing, or think he's too small for the next level, or too slow, or not athletic enough, etc. Until the player actually gets to college, adjusts to a new atmosphere, and gets on the court with his new peers, you don't know how he'll turn out.

Did Nagy miss out on Woodside and others? Yeah. But so did Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northern Iowa, Creighton, Nebraska, etc, etc. We have some exciting young players in Cadwell and Holdren, not sure what is up with Beran, but he has showed flashes in the past. Berte was playing very well before this incident came up, and Gilbert seemed to be turning the corner before the same. We have some promising recruits as red-shirts this year in Engen, Billitz, Hornby, and Yackley, and have two more coming next year in Bassett and Cordova. For Nagy to bring in two 6'10" players and an all-Canadian player in Hornby I think is quite an accomplishment. I'm sure there are teams in thier backyards who'd have liked to have them as well.

People need to remember this is year two in transition, its not going to be easy to build a quality DI program, we are competing against 300 other schools. I have all the confidence in Nagy and his staff. Obviously things haven't worked out like we hoped, and the Jacks are going through some tough times. Its easy to say Nagy has made mistakes in recruiting, but thats going to happen with any program. We just need to keep things in prospective and be patient.

[Hoops]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Southwest Minnesota

I will offer an opinion about the increase in student attendance when the football players were added to the roster and the two basketball players were suspended.  I have talked with some students on campus and students off campus.  The students have been in various off campus social settings where the two suspended players have also been in attendance.  It was the opinion of the students that the players are arrogant jerks with disagreeable attitudes, not very likable personalities.  Thus no student support.  Whereas the footballers are likable with the corresponding increase in student attendance.

I just have to respond to this comment with regards to Gilbert and Berte being said to have arrogant and disagreeable attitudes not to mention very unlikable personalities.....THOSE COMMENTS ARE TOTALLY ABSURD!! I have to wonder if the students making the comments even know Berte/Gilbert! I know both of these young men personally and they are the kindest most gentle of souls. I also know that they are very well respected and looked up to within the student population. The coaching staff enjoys these boys and I know their fellow basketball and football players respect them too. Any student that would trash those boys obviously doesn't know them at all....therefore they shouldn't comment.
Everyone might be a little surprised when this whole situation is brought to the surface....things aren't always as them seem!! But time will hopefully bring the truth to the surface.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Southwest Minnesota

Most students on campus don't get the chance to know the players personally. They don't have to know the players. If they get even the impression of players being unlikeable, they won't go to the games. That simple.

[SD-STATE]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Southwest Minnesota

There is no question what the football players provided for the team was energy and spark. These are 4 guys essentially living a dream they didn't think they could have, they bring fresh legs and fresh attitudes. The rest of the guys on the team have been practicing, playing and traveling since November.

The football players have been practicing, playing, traveling, and working out 3-5 days a week since at least August. How do we go from these guys "saved the day" to downplaying their contributions?

[JackTwice]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Southwest Minnesota

In no way was I downplaying their contribution, I called it what it was, a spark. For the team, the students and the community. There was a level of excitement at Frost we haven't seen for quite a while (the last few minutes of the Denver game was quite electric but it wasn't a whole game like this)

I am well aware these guys have been working out since well before August, but this is basketball and they are as excited as I would assume Cadwell would be if he got to throw on a football uniform at the D-I level.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Southwest Minnesota

In no way was I downplaying their contribution, I called it what it was, a spark.  For the team, the students and the community.  There was a level of excitement at Frost we haven't seen for quite a while (the last few minutes of the Denver game was quite electric but it wasn't a whole game like this)

I am well aware these guys have been working out since well before August, but this is basketball and they are as excited as I would assume Cadwell would be if he got to throw on a football uniform at the D-I level.  

I think the top athletes from both sports could play both, or either one. It's their athletism that makes this possible. Time nowdays does not permit them to play both and still get what they want from the classroom.

What is very apparent in my mind is that the football program has done a better job recruiting for athletism than the basketball program.  We seem to have gotten bb players who are not quite up to snuff so we red shirt them a year. The following year we find that their skills are still deficient. I would like to see a BB recruit that could play right away. Other than Holdren, these people are non-existent.

This is the big problem that I see with the program. We continuously expect Coach Nagy to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear. I think our whole recruiting process needs to be looked and adjustments made. Otherwise the 2100 die hard fans are going to desert the program forever. As one of those, I losing my patience. >

[SDSUFAN]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Southwest Minnesota

Recruiting is always going to be a crapshoot.  

Did Nagy miss out on Woodside and others?  Yeah.  But so did Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northern Iowa, Creighton, Nebraska, etc, etc.  We have some exciting young players in Cadwell and Holdren, not sure what is up with Beran, but he has showed flashes in the past.  Berte was playing very well before this incident came up, and Gilbert seemed to be turning the corner before the same.  We have some promising recruits as red-shirts this year in Engen, Billitz, Hornby, and Yackley, and have two more coming next year in Bassett and Cordova.  For Nagy to bring in two 6'10" players and an all-Canadian player in Hornby I think is quite an accomplishment.  I'm sure there are teams in thier backyards who'd have liked to have them as well.

People need to remember this is year two in transition, its not going to be easy to build a quality DI program, we are competing against 300 other schools.  I have all the confidence in Nagy and his staff.  Obviously things haven't worked out like we hoped, and the Jacks are going through some tough times.  Its easy to say Nagy has made mistakes in recruiting, but thats going to happen with any program.  We just need to keep things in prospective and be patient.

No question recuriting is a crap shoot. Apparently we need a new pair of dice. We seem to have been using loaded dice, or some one does not know how to throw dice. Redshirting seems to be a way of hiding imcompetence and a lack of a good network of recruiting. This what is very apparent and will continue to become more apparent to every fan.

Is the entire staff turning every stone, using all alums from out of state for recruiting tips? Are we going beyone Iowa? These are some the questions that are really beginning to bother me. These are questions that need to be answered.


And yes this is year two of the transition period, and by gosh I think we were at a lower point than we were two years ago. It time to do some soul searching here and make some adjustments. I am not satisfied with the current state of affairs. This allegation is not going to go away soon. Even if the charges are dismissed tomorrow, this thing will not go away. Its very serious.

We best hang to the FB guys as long as John will allow them to be on loan. Thats all we have.

[89rabbit]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Southwest Minnesota

SDSUFAN,

It is clear that you have become seduced by the "Dark Side".  Comparing football recruiting with basketball recruiting is ridiculous.  After all there are 80 + members on a football team and only 15 on most NCAA D-I basketball teams.  Next one must look at the fact that our football team plays at the I-AA level (a half step down from I-A) while the basketball team goes head to head with all the schools in D-I.  Also, let’s talk about how many underclassmen the football team starts vs. the total number of starting positions (22, 11 on offense and 11 on defense) and what percentage that is of the total team and compare that to the Men's Basketball team.  It should also be noted that the vast majority of football players too red shirt as do most athletes at most schools in both football and basketball.  I am not sure what you are driving at but I think you are off base on this one, just my opinion.     


Go State!  ;D


P.S.  Everyone needs to remember that after the '03-'04 season SDSU lost 7 players (5 had used up the eligibility, 1 transfered, and 1 was too ill to continue) it takes time to rebuild a program that lost almost half of it's participants in one season.  I have said it before it was great having all that "extra" exp. to make our last run at a D-II championship (as you recall we beat that year's National Champion on a neutral floor at the begining of the season and spent some time ranked #1 in the nation) however, it meant that we would have to do some major rebuilding.  Bottom line Coach Nagy is building for '08-'09 when we are tourney eligible  it may not be fun now but it will be more fun when it counts.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Southwest Minnesota

89 Rabbit:

I know I have said too much, but I hope your budget will permit a trip to Brookings on February 18th. I think when we fall behind 20 pts, you will start to see what I am getting at.

[OK_Jackrabbit]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Southwest Minnesota

I just have to respond to this comment with regards to Gilbert and Berte being said to have arrogant and disagreeable attitudes not to mention very unlikable personalities.....THOSE COMMENTS ARE TOTALLY ABSURD!! I have to wonder if the students making the comments even know Berte/Gilbert!   I know both of these young men personally and they are the kindest most gentle of souls.  I also know that they are very well respected and looked up to within the student population.  The coaching staff enjoys these boys and I know their fellow basketball and football players respect them too.   Any student that would trash those boys obviously doesn't know them at all....therefore they shouldn't comment.
Everyone might be a little surprised when this whole situation is brought to the surface....things aren't always as them seem!!  But time will hopefully bring the truth to the surface.

This doesn't jibe with what I have heard from other student athletes. But then again, you are right, Hoops, in saying that we can't really know what's going on here. I just hope it all works out for all the young people involved.

[Rabbitlivinginverm]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Southwest Minnesota

SDSUFAN,

I have not seen this men's team play in person this year, but do hope to Feb 18. You've seen them play and are in a better position to evaluate them than I am. But anyway...I think it's a little to early to say these new recruits can't play. Last year we redshirted Cadwell, Gilbert and Keller. Two out of three can play at this level. Next year we have Hornby, Engen, and Blitz. It's too early to pass judgement upon them. Beran has been struggling lately and we lost the other two recruits from that year. Green could play at this level. I have no idea what Wenig would have been able to do other than hit 3's. Landon Scott also left the team apparently after he learned that he actually had to go to class and compete for a starting spot. Next year we bring in Cordova and Basset--I think they'll be good additions. Ideally, a team has balance among it's classes (i.e. 3 seniors, 3 juniors, 3 sophs, 3 freshman). It'll be a few years before we're there.

[OK_Jackrabbit]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Southwest Minnesota

 Everyone needs to remember that after the '03-'04 season SDSU lost 7 players (5 had used up the eligibility, 1 transfered, and 1 was too ill to continue) it takes time to rebuild a program that lost almost half of it's participants in one season.  I have said it before it was great having all that "extra" exp. to make our last run at a D-II championship (as you recall we beat that year's National Champion on a neutral floor at the begining of the season and spent some time ranked #1 in the nation) however, it meant that we would have to do some major rebuilding.  Bottom line Coach Nagy is building for '08-'09 when we are tourney eligible  it may not be fun now but it will be more fun when it counts.

Exactly. We lived off a bunch of fifth- and even sixth-year seniors there for a couple of years at the end of the D2 run. This rebuilding phase was going to happen whether we went up to D1, stayed in D2, or moved down to NAIA. And I agree that we're talking about the sport for which the jump from D2 to D1 had the steepest curve, men's basketball.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Southwest Minnesota

SDSUFAN,

I have not seen this men's team play in person this year, but do hope to Feb 18.  You've seen them play and are in a better position to evaluate them than I am.  But anyway...I think it's a little to early to say these new recruits can't play.  Last year we redshirted Cadwell, Gilbert and Keller.  Two out of three can play at this level.  Next year we have Hornby, Engen, and Blitz.  It's too early to pass judgement upon them.  Beran has been struggling lately and we lost the other two recruits from that year.  Green could play at this level.  I have no idea what Wenig would have been able to do other than hit 3's.  Landon Scott also left the team apparently after he learned that he actually had to go to class and compete for a starting spot.  Next year we bring in Cordova and Basset--I think they'll be good additions.  Ideally, a team has balance among it's classes (i.e. 3 seniors, 3 juniors, 3 sophs, 3 freshman).  It'll be a few years before we're there.

Maybe things are not as bad as they seem to me now. Possibly I am just venting, but I dont know. It was painful to watch the NDSU VS SDSU men game in Fargo. Worse yet  was a very vocal crowd as we saw last night at Frost. NDSU seems to have enough guys to play and we  dont we have enough. We seem to be hitting two out of three  or two out of four or something like that. We just can not afford this kind of recruiting. I doubt anyone would consider at comparison to NDSU as being out of line. They move up the same time, so they should be a very good measuring stick.

Not only that, the following Monday while driving into Fargo on I-94, a car full of apparently NDSU students saw my SD licence plate. They honked and waved, and were no doubt still celerbrating their big 30 pt win.

If this pattern of 2 out of 3 continues, we will always be waiting for next year. I have been a Cub fan for some years, but SDSU is very different. I want to see us have a quality program, not one that getting into the paper print for the wrong reasons.

[89rabbit]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Southwest Minnesota

89 Rabbit:

I know I have said too much, but I hope your budget will permit a trip to Brookings on February 18th. I think when we fall behind 20 pts, you will start to see what I am getting at.

I will be in Brookings to "Back the Jacks" on Feb. 11th and Feb. 18th.


Go State!  ;D


P.S. Although there is a chance that we could lose big to NDSU there is also a chance that we will win.  I am watching unranked Iowa State hand it to #25 Colorado (ISU is up by 20).  So I am not willing to concede anything at this point.  Basketball is a funny game.  Another thing to think about when looking at NDSU, is that in three years (if nothing changes) they will have 5 guys graduate together (or about 1/3 of the kids in the program).  They too will be in a rebuilding mode and it will be by design.  

[Jacks99]

Re: Men's Basketball: SDSU vs. Southwest Minnesota

This doesn't jibe with what I have heard from other student athletes. But then again, you are right, Hoops, in saying that we can't really know what's going on here. I just hope it all works out for all the young people involved.

I've also heard 1st hand from an athlete that said he witnessed a practice where Berte "lost his cool".