The season through 10 games

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: The season through 10 games

Several talented guys........who??????????????????? Let's face the facts, the team from the late 90's would beat these guys by 20+ every single night

That's such a bunch of *X)@...you don't know that, and it's trying to measure oranges to apples. But I guess in your view, that means "that" team, whichever one you are referring to, would beat the Gophers "every single night", and run roughshod over Oral Roberts and win the Summit League title "every single year". And putting down the talented guys we do have, isn't of much help either.

[bballfan54]

Re: The season through 10 games

That's such a bunch of *X)@...you don't know that, and it's trying to measure oranges to apples. But I guess in your view, that means "that" team, whichever one you are referring to, would beat the Gophers "every single night", and run roughshod over Oral Roberts and win the Summit League title "every single year".





And putting down the talented guys we do have, isn't of much help either.

Amen to that....

[KUlawJack]

Re: The season through 10 games

That's such a bunch of *X)@...you don't know that, and it's trying to measure oranges to apples. But I guess in your view, that means "that" team, whichever one you are referring to, would beat the Gophers "every single night", and run roughshod over Oral Roberts and win the Summit League title "every single year". And putting down the talented guys we do have, isn't of much help either.

Agreed. Totally different situations here. While those teams of the '90s were excellent teams, it is impossible to determine which team would be better. We play at a different level of competition and it would seem with a jump in level, that the physicality and athletic ability of competition is extremely difficult to compare to our days in D-II. Playing Minnesota, Oral Roberts, San Jose State, Drake, Iowa State, etc. seems much more demanding physically than playing the likes of Morningside, Wayne State, Grand Canyon, Mt. Senario, and S.D. Tech, all due respect to their programs. Impossible to say what our current schedule would have done to the teams of the 90s because they never played against teams like that. They might have played well and been in the games, or the sheer physical nature of the higher level of play might have worn them down significantly. See what I am doing here? Speculation. You can't make definitive statements regarding your comparison because its unfair and seriously flawed. And that is why I won't attempt to compare them using such definite statements.

[jacks1]

Re: The season through 10 games

Several talented guys........who??????????????????? Let's face the facts, the team from the late 90's would beat these guys by 20+ every single night

Let's do a quick side-by-side and see:

PG: MacKenzie Casey vs. Marquise "Q" Richardson/Chris Stoebner. Advantage: Obvious
SG: Garrett Callahan vs. Austin Hansen/Andy Moeller. Advantage: Hansen/Moeller
SF: Clint Sargent vs. Derrick Schantz. Advantage: Push...but personally I like Schantz
PF: Kai Williams vs. Matt Jones. Advantage: Obvious
C: Anthony Cordova vs. Andy Cone/Josh Cerveny/Adam Robinson. Advantage: Cordova...barely

It is hard to do a comparison from previous years, as rosters change yearly...sometimes weekly. The past players I picked were consistent contributors in the '99-'02 years. As far as bench comparison goes, we'll leave that out. This years team has a hard enough time finding 5 guys that want to play hard on a given night.

Conclusion: I'd say the late '90's-early '00's team would win a majority of the games by a sizable margin....just too many variables to say for sure. They simply had more talent and heart in my opinion. Ok, fire away posters that simply can't believe or just don't accept that DII teams from 6+ years ago would handle this team loaded with DI talent...

[KUlawJack]

Re: The season through 10 games

PF: Kai Williams vs. Matt Jones. Advantage: Obvious

Which way are you going with this one, I really don't know considering Kai has played really well and been healthy while Matt was sick but played extremely well while healthy. Just for clarification.

[thebluehatman]

Re: The season through 10 games

Which way are you going with this one, I really don't know considering Kai has played really well and been healthy while Matt was sick but played extremely well while healthy.

I think he is going with Matt Jones.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: The season through 10 games

Let's do a quick side-by-side and see:

PG: MacKenzie Casey vs. Marquise "Q" Richardson/Chris Stoebner. Advantage: Obvious
SG: Garrett Callahan vs. Austin Hansen/Andy Moeller. Advantage: Hansen/Moeller
SF: Clint Sargent vs. Derrick Schantz. Advantage: Push...but personally I like Schantz
PF: Kai Williams vs. Matt Jones. Advantage: Obvious
C: Anthony Cordova vs. Andy Cone/Josh Cerveny/Adam Robinson. Advantage: Cordova...barely

It is hard to do a comparison from previous years, as rosters change yearly...sometimes weekly. The past players I picked were consistent contributors in the '99-'02 years. As far as bench comparison goes, we'll leave that out. This years team has a hard enough time finding 5 guys that want to play hard on a given night.

Conclusion: I'd say the late '90's-early '00's team would win a majority of the games by a sizable margin....just too many variables to say for sure. They simply had more talent and heart in my opinion. Ok, fire away posters that simply can't believe or just don't accept that DII teams from 6+ years ago would handle this team loaded with DI talent...

We can compare old vs current until senility attacks, and it doesn't mean doo-doo. The only comparison of value, is how this team plays vs. this year's opponents. So far, not so good a comparison. However, they seem more cohesive, and staying in the game, scrapping to get back in the game when down. Last year, they seemed to surrender when down. Not true to date. We do need this Jacks team to pull out more close ones. Jacks let a very winnable game slip through their fingers in Denver. I'm optimistic that they will figure a way to win, and hopefully approach, or exceed .500 this year.

[jacks1]

Re: The season through 10 games

Which way are you going with this one, I really don't know considering Kai has played really well and been healthy while Matt was sick but played extremely well while healthy. Just for clarification.

BHM was right, I'm going with Jones. When healthy (though only for about 2 years when you add it up) he was unstoppable...and he wasn't even the 1st, 2nd or 3rd option on offense. Kai has loads of talent, but has definitely hit a funk. I retract the 'obvious' comment, but will still go with Jones every time.

[goon]

Re: The season through 10 games

I think if you put Kai in those teams of 99-02 with hansen and moeller and such. I would not be surprised if he could avg 20-10 agame. Against the level of compitition as D-2 Kai would have dominated. Its still apples to kumquats comparing it that way, because the level of compititon is so different. You don't think Callahan could score the same level that hansen and Moller did as D-2? Challahan and Sargent are avg more points agame against a schedule with some harder teams and some compareable teams on it compared to 01-02 season with Hanson and Moeller. you put the top 3 against are top 3 players that year and against the teams we play now, I think Hansen and Jones and Moeller would be good but I think Kai and Sargent and Garrett would be like superstars playing against those teams the 01-02 team played against. Its all sepculation but I like what i see in improvements from last year. Not blaming anyone but if Kai was at his avg from last year we would have a winning record and 3 guys avg over 14 points agame. We are close to breaking out of that funk, just needs to win and get on the right track.

[jacks1]

Re: The season through 10 games

I think if you put Kai in those teams of 99-02 with hansen and moeller and such. I would not be surprised if he could avg 20-10 agame. Against the level of compitition as D-2 Kai would have dominated. Its still apples to kumquats comparing it that way, because the level of compititon is so different. You don't think Callahan could score the same level that hansen and Moller did as D-2? Challahan and Sargent are avg more points agame against a schedule with some harder teams and some compareable teams on it compared to 01-02 season with Hanson and Moeller. you put the top 3 against are top 3 players that year and against the teams we play now, I think Hansen and Jones and Moeller would be good but I think Kai and Sargent and Garrett would be like superstars playing against those teams the 01-02 team played against. Its all sepculation but I like what i see in improvements from last year. Not blaming anyone but if Kai was at his avg from last year we would have a winning record and 3 guys avg over 14 points agame. We are close to breaking out of that funk, just needs to win and get on the right track.

I can agree with most of that. My comparison is pretty much apples to pears....but I think it was still worth mentioning, as I believe many of our players 'back in the day' had DI talent comparable to what we have today. I just want to see these guys compete hard night in and night out. Hopefully tonight will be the start. I do think getting the conference season rolling soon will help our guys regain focus....GO RABBITS!

[rabbit_boy]

Re: The season through 10 games

Lets see we beat one Div II team this year barely and lost to another one. Both at home. Yup, that means this team would have dominated those late 90's teams. For those that say you can't compare them, its just their way of still denying the truth about the lack of talent on this team for the Div I level.

[jackmd]

Re: The season through 10 games

Lets see we beat one Div II team this year barely and lost to another one. Both at home. Yup, that means this team would have dominated those late 90's teams. For those that say you can't compare them, its just their way of still denying the truth about the lack of talent on this team for the Div I level.

You're missing the main point and being a jerk about it at the same time. It doesn't matter what would have happened with our DII teams from the past. DII is the past and it isn't relevant now. We have our players and our team now and thats the way it is it. It doesn't do any good to compare exhibition losses this year to wins by different players on a different team in a totally different era. Not saying you can't do it, it just doesn't make any sense and you can't make any intelligent conclusions as supported by fact.

Its very clear to everyone that this team is currently at the bottom of the ranks as far as ability to compete at the DI level. Just look at the RPI and our performance this year and the last few years. Its been horrible and everyone knows that. We have to get better and right now that doesn't definitely seem to be happening. Suggesting crap like the DII teams of the past would perform better just isn't relevant or helpful.

[jacks1]

Re: The season through 10 games

Suggesting crap like the DII teams of the past would perform better just isn't relevant or helpful.

...in your opinion. To others, it may be very relevant.

[filbert]

Re: The season through 10 games

Lets see we beat one Div II team this year barely and lost to another one. Both at home. Yup, that means this team would have dominated those late 90's teams. For those that say you can't compare them, its just their way of still denying the truth about the lack of talent on this team for the Div I level.

I suspect you may be underestimating the effect of morale on a team. My perception (for which I cheerfully offer indulgence for opposing views) is that this year's Jackrabbits are, as a group, possibly the most physically talented men's team we've ever had. The difference between this team and the great D-II teams we had is in attitude. The D-II Jacks never went into a game thinking they'd lose. The D-I Jacks have never had anything like that level of confidence.

Better talent + no self-confidence = bad things, man.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: The season through 10 games

Let's do a quick side-by-side and see:
PG: MacKenzie Casey vs. Marquise "Q" Richardson/Chris Stoebner. Advantage: Obvious

Did Stoebner play point? I seem to remember him as more of a 3, but could be wrong...

"Q" was a Juco player who couldn't cut it in DI. He would not be able to play for this years team.

Either way, I would say PGs were possible better then, although I feel Mac and Michael do a suffecient job of managing the game.

SG: Garrett Callahan vs. Austin Hansen/Andy Moeller. Advantage: Hansen/Moeller

Should be Garrett Callahan/Clint Sargeant vs. Hansen/Moeller

I would say this is a push. Austin was a great player but did he ever play against players like this?

3 Payton, Kevin G/F 6-5 215 RJr.
4 Busch, Travis G/F 6-4 220 Jr.
5 Joseph, Devoe G 6-3 170 Fr.
20 Westbrook, Lawrence G 6-0 195 Jr.
22 Bostick, Devron G 6-5 210 Jr.

Garrett and Clint put up 15 and 25 against this set of defenders. Austin/Moeller went up against the likes of Luke Tibbets, Derek Paben, and Josh Mueller.

SF: Clint Sargent vs. Derrick Schantz. Advantage: Push...but personally I like Schantz

This should be Kai Williams vs Derrick Schantz which would be no contest. Even matching up Clint with Schantz, there is no way Schantz is the better player. Clint is averaging over 15pts/4rebs per game as a sophomore against mostly Division I competition. Derrick averaged just over 8pts/8rebs per game as a senior against entirely DII competition.

PF: Kai Williams vs. Matt Jones. Advantage: Obvious

Matt was great, but Kai would similarly dominate the competition Jones played against. In fact, Kai averaged almost identical numbers last year against DI competition as Matt did in 01-02 when he was a freshman.

Let's do a quick side-by-side and see:
C: Anthony Cordova vs. Andy Cone/Josh Cerveny/Adam Robinson. Advantage: Cordova...barely

Agreed, although from what I've seen Josh Cassaday could hold his own against this set, if he brings his "A" game.

Our current team is much more athletic, bigger at the guard positions, and has just as good of shooters. I'm with Coach Nagy in that once these guys start believing in themselves they will be a tough Summit team.

One other point, this scenario gets much, much worse for your 90's SDSU dream team if I can include players from a 4 year stretch like you did. A few worth mentioning: Andre Gilbert, Steve Holdren, Mo Berte, and Ben Beran.