Holdren transferring to Illinois

[89rabbit]

Re: Holdren transferring to Illinois

I, for one, don't know if Nagy is the problem.   I tend to think he could bear some of the responsibilty for players leaving.  But I don't think he should be canned.  I do think we have a problem retaining players.  In fact, I think we have a BIG problem retaining players for whatever the stated reasons for leaving.  Sorry if I've come off as "bitching", that's not my intent.  But if you can honestly and objectively say that everything is just fine with the MBB team and nothing needs to be changed I think the blue and yellow glasses are clouding your view.

As far as offering answers, I don't have many.  If I did, I'd be sitting in the athletic department right now.

I think we can all agree that having the number of players who have left (or may leave) the program recently is a problem. No one is arguing that point.

So now we need to move on to "why are we having this problem" and "what steps could have or should have been taken to correct the problem".

After examining the why (s) if you can't come up with any corrective steps that could have or should have been taken then perhaps you have to chalk it up to bad luck, be frustrated, but move on. Sometimes things happen that suck, but they are nobody's fault, so you have to get on with it.

If you have other answers I am all ears. I and many on this board are willing to explore this issue because it isn't fun and it would be nice if it never happened again.

Alas, I am afraid that when dealing with 18 to 23 year old students things will happen from time to time. Let's just hope they don't all happen at the same time.



Go State!

[TK22867]

Re: Holdren transferring to Illinois

89, Thanks for the Duke reference, you must know I'm a huge fan.  I'm not disputing your theory about the transfer at all.  I just think there is a need to explore other avenues as to why this happened.  In a perfect world, your theory would make sense, but with the recent problems that our program has experienced I tend to think there is more than meets they eye.

If Steve is so determined to play close to home, why did he come to SDSU in the first place?  I don't know his recruiting history, but he has to have been recruited by other D1 schools closer to his hometown.

On the notion of him being friend's with Coach Weber:  Why did Weber not invite him to walkon upon Steve's graduation?  Did Weber (or his daughter) only become friends with him after Steve showed he can play?

Not for one minute do I think Steve left SDSU only to be closer to home and play for Illinois.  If he did, too many of us on this board are letting him off easy.  If he only left for the former, he should have kept his butt home in the first place.  If the former are truly the reasons, I think it shows a lack of character and feel personally betrayed.  Maybe I live in too perfect of a world, but i just don't see Steve being that type of person.  Something else has to be going on within the program.

There, I finally got that off my chest.  Feel better, but this whole thing still makes me want to vomit.  Before the alleged "incident" and Steve's transfer, this team was going to be very, very special in 2 years.  I know others don't agree, but I personally feel the men's program is right back to where it started in this whole transition to Division I.

As to the solution, I hope it is not to recruit kids only from the area/state, otherwise we will never be the "mid-major" program all of us dream about seeing one day.

I'm trying to stay optimistic, but damn it's hard.

[Jacks99]

Re: Holdren transferring to Illinois

As far as solutions and knowing the answers Good Luck! We aren't in the trenches, therefore we are out here saying our minds.

We have every right to say they need to address the loss of players and the list seems to be growing every month. This isn't implying anything about anyones job, but is getting a program going in the right direction for the next few years and more.

With Andre and Mo aside, I don't think this program can lose any more players. At the current status, next year needs to be a positive one with a decent amount of wins in the games that should be won. Also no more attrition. If not, we will be trying to think optimistic for the following year.

I'm still supporting the program, SDSU and Nagy, but it gets harder for us all every day.

[jackmd]

Re: Holdren transferring to Illinois

#1 Let me say, I think this is a great conversation and I am glad to see some passion. RLV, TK, Twice, SF etc.. all bring great points to the table and are clearly concerned about SDSU men's BB which is my #1 priority when it comes to the Jacks.

I am VERY disappointed that Holdren is leaving. The more I think about the more I am inclined to be upset with him. We invested 2 years of time and should expect some return. What do we get, he leaves without looking back.

Nagy will and has shouldered the responsibility. I think its noble that he hasn't just canned an assistant or two and tried to deflect the blame. Can he fix this? I hope so. I don't see a good alternative.

[89rabbit]

Re: Holdren transferring to Illinois

89, Thanks for the Duke reference, you must know I'm a huge fan.  I'm not disputing your theory about the transfer at all.  I just think there is a need to explore other avenues as to why this happened.  In a perfect world, your theory would make sense, but with the recent problems that our program has experienced I tend to think there is more than meets they eye.

If Steve is so determined to play close to home, why did he come to SDSU in the first place?  I don't know his recruiting history, but he has to have been recruited by other D1 schools closer to his hometown.

On the notion of him being friend's with Coach Weber:  Why did Weber not invite him to walkon upon Steve's graduation? Did Weber (or his daughter) only become friends with him after Steve showed he can play?  .  .  .

Before the alleged "incident" and Steve's transfer, this team was going to be very, very special in 2 years.  I know others don't agree, but I personally feel the men's program is right back to where it started in this whole transition to Division I.  .  .  .

 

Your questions are good.  The answer as to why he ended up at SDSU are two fold.  Steve was hurt most of his Jr. season. He missed all but 10 games so many of the bigger schools took a pass on him and he fell to us.  I believe I read he had drawn interest from Missouri Valley Schools before he got hurt.  

From chicagohoops.com:

Champaign Centennial's Steve Holdren Healthy, Ready To Be One Of Better Prospects In Illinois  


Brian Stinnette
July 13, 2003  


Champaign Centennial's Steve Holdren is now healthy and ready to take his place as one of the better Class of 2004 prospects in the state of Illinois.  

Holdren, a 6-4 wing, missed all but 10 games last year due to knee surgery. He still managed to average 14 points, 8 rebounds and 3 assists per contest. .  .  .



He ended up at SDSU because Coach Nagy has a connection and since none of the bigger schools offered  .  .  .

05/14/2004
Jacks Sign Illinois Standout  
BROOKINGS, SD - A player from Champaign Centennial High School in Illinois has signed a letter of intent indicating he will enroll at South Dakota State University and participate in the Jackrabbit men’s basketball program.

Steve Holdren, a 6-5 forward, averaged 17.9 points and was the leading rebounder (7.1 rpg) on the Chargers team that went 22-5 and reached the Illinois High School Association sectional semifinals.

SDSU coach Scott Nagy is a 1984 graduate of Centennial High School.



Finally the question as to why Coach Weber didn't offer him a spot .  .  . Well, beyond Steve's injury it is very possible that Illinois did not have a spot for Steve even to walk on when he was a Sr. in high school; however this is pure conjecture as I do not follow Illinois close enough to know this for fact.  I will not even attempt to speculate on the relationship between Steve and Coach Weber's daughter.

As for the rest of your post I too thought this team would be special, possibly as early as next season.  I too now feel we are starting over, although it does look like we are closer to finding a conference home so I am not sure we are at square 1 (but we can probably see it from where we are now).  That is why I too am very frustrated.  The difference is I don't see any fault here just some really bad luck.

My best friend in high school was a heck of an athlete; he actually went to USD on a baseball scholarship.  He was in far better shape, ate better, and overall took better  care of himself then I did or still do.  He died of Cancer after our freshmen year.  Whose fault is that?  Who should I blame?  Who should I be mad at?  The answer is nobody.  Bad things happen to good people and bad things happen to good programs.  That doesn't mean that we shouldn't do our do diligence, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't talk about it, it doesn't mean that we shouldn’t be upset about it, but sometimes things happen and we just have to deal with them.


I have no problem being optimistic because I know that Coach Nagy, his staff, and the whole athletic department are working to return our program to greatness and that given time they will achieve this goal!  I am very encouraged with the news of our recent signing and of the "Big Canadian" who is coming to visit.  Everyone, please remember that this too shall pass. We are the Jackrabbits!   8-)



I hope that helps.

Go State!  

[NorCalJack]

Re: Holdren transferring to Illinois

Well I guess I will jump in here with my two cents.  When SDSU announced that they were moving up to D-1, everybody stated that they were going to be patient and that everyone understood that it was going to be an emotional roller coaster.  It is like playing the stock market, everybody knows that if you stay the course for the long haul, you will make more money than you would earning 2% in the bank.  When things start going south, those with good intentions begin to doubt themselves and the program.  Of course when things start going good again, they jump back onto the band wagon, self proclaiming that they had faith in the coaching staff and administration all along.

I am somewhat disappointed in those that are starting to doubt that there is more going on with the men's basketball program than what is being reported as reasons for leaving the program.  Every program has recruits leave, even Carda left the women's program, but I don't sense there being problems with the women's coaching staff or administration.  

Nagy has also decided to rebuild this program the right way.  He is recruiting players from high school and red shirting them.  Some people want instant results, which would mean that SDSU would have to recruit JC players and not red shirt freshmen.  People forget that we really only have had one D-1 recuiting class play so far.  That class included Cadwell, Holdren and Gilbert.  Holdren was the only player not to red-shirt.  We have not even seen Hornby, Engen, Bilitz, Yackley, Cordova, Callahan and couple other players (names escape me).  I don't think you can start judging the success or failure of the program until Nagy has had a chance to run his D-1 recruits all the way through the program.  When Cadwell graduates and the team is fully stocked with D-1 talent, then you can truely start judging Nagy, but I don't think you can do that until then.  

Nagy, Orien and Peggy Miller all said that it was going to be difficult in making the transition to D-1, and they are right.  I stated before that I am behind the move and that I will be very patient with the athletic department.

As the old saying goes "United we Stand, Divided we Fall"

Go State!!!  

[SDSUJack3031]

Re: Holdren transferring to Illinois

How about a CHEER to our faithful fan! By far the best post on here yet! ROUND OF APPLAUSE!!!

[SiouxFallsJack]

Re: Holdren transferring to Illinois

[quote author=JackJD link=1146515117/15#19 date=1146632072]Geez, lighten up a little SF Jack Fan.  Don't you think its a bit of a stretch to try to compare a business to college athletics?    

I assume you are talking to me, SF Rabbit Fan.  SF Jack probably doesn't like being confused with me. ;D
[/quote]


For once we are in agreement.  ;D ;D


Just think only a few months ago we were arguing over who should be getting playing time.  That seems like a minor problem compared to our recent troubles.

I'm disappointed in that Steve didn't show loyalty to the school that offered him a free education.  I now feel his coming out here was a chance to show off his skills to a larger, more established program.  He has an outstanding Freshman year, plays a great game against Illinois, and now has his chance to play for Illinois.  Maybe I expect too much but I am very, very disappointed.

[JackJD]

Re: Holdren transferring to Illinois

[quote author=SF_Rabbit_Fan link=1146515117/15#21 date=1146666636][quote author=JackJD link=1146515117/15#19 date=1146632072]Geez, lighten up a little SF Jack Fan.  Don't you think its a bit of a stretch to try to compare a business to college athletics?    

I assume you are talking to me, SF Rabbit Fan.  SF Jack probably doesn't like being confused with me. ;D
[/quote]


For once we are in agreement.  ;D ;D


Just think only a few months ago we were arguing over who should be getting playing time.  That seems like a minor problem compared to our recent troubles.

I'm disappointed in that Steve didn't show loyalty to the school that offered him a free education.  I now feel his coming out here was a chance to show off his skills to a larger, more established program.  He has an outstanding Freshman year, plays a great game against Illinois, and now has his chance to play for Illinois.  Maybe I expect too much but I am very, very disappointed. [/quote]


Haven't looked at the board for a couple of days...I see I owe SiouxFallsJack an apology for inadvertently confusing his name, or a version of it, with SF Rabbit.

[Hoops]

Re: Holdren transferring to Illinois

I don't think that unless someone has been around or involved with organized colligate sports on a personal level that they should comment on these student athlete's taking advantage of a free ride education then bolting.....these athlete's pay with their lives and souls for the time they are in the programs. I believe their debts are paid with the long crueling hours of practice, training session and games. Hours away from the University on the long road trips and living out of suits cases for days on end. Missing Holidays with their families, missing vacations with their families.
It saddens me that some of the people on this feed feel they can judge and comment on the character of Holdren when in reality they know nothing about Holdren or his life. It is ludicrous to say that Holdren came to SDSU to show off his skills and earn a place at Illinois. How many of you could play most of a basketball season with Mono? Holdren did his freshman year. He did it because he didn't want to let down his team, coach and school. If you read up on Mono the last thing you want to do is play a contact sport. He gave his all on and off the court.
I ask you all if when you accept a new position of employment would you turn down a better paying job across town? Life is change and for whatever reason the boys are leaving and it is for the coaching staff to work out. Everyone seems to forget that this University is in a transition stage and there are going to be some very low moments but it will all come. The University is doing everything right in order to create an wonderful arena for the D-I program. People have to let them do it!! It may take years but it will happen!!
In the meantime rather than making up stuff or commenting on why a player is leaving..........call the player and get the truth! I think Holdren, Beran and the others have pretty much stated there reasons and it makes sense but why is it that some have to make it more than what it is? Move on! Let's look at the positive things.....there is a great group of players that we will soon see what they can do on the court and there will be more in the future - no doubt!

[TK22867]

Re: Holdren transferring to Illinois

How many of you could play most of a basketball season with Mono?  Holdren did his freshman year.  He did it because he didn't want to let down his team, coach and school. 

How ironic.  Enough said.

[jackmd]

Re: Holdren transferring to Illinois

I don't think that unless someone has been around or involved with organized colligate sports on a personal level that they should comment on these student athlete's taking advantage of a free ride education then bolting.....these athlete's pay with their lives and souls for the time they are in the programs.  I believe their debts are paid with the long crueling hours of practice, training session and games.  Hours away from the University on the long road trips and living out of suits cases for days on end.  Missing Holidays with their families, missing vacations with their families.
It saddens me that some of the people on this feed feel they can judge and comment on the character of Holdren when in reality they know nothing about Holdren or his life.  It is ludicrous to say that Holdren came to SDSU to show off his skills and earn a place at Illinois.  How many of you could play most of a basketball season with Mono?  Holdren did his freshman year.  He did it because he didn't want to let down his team, coach and school.  If you read up on Mono the last thing you want to do is play a contact sport.  He gave his all on and off the court.  
I ask you all if when you accept a new position of employment would you turn down a better paying job across town?  Life is change and for whatever reason the boys are leaving and it is for the coaching staff to work out.  Everyone seems to forget that this University is in a transition stage and there are going to be some very low moments but it will all come.  The University is doing everything right in order to create an wonderful arena for the D-I program.  People have to let them do it!!  It may take years but it will happen!!
In the meantime rather than making up stuff or commenting on why a player is leaving..........call the player and get the truth!  I think Holdren, Beran and the others have pretty much stated there reasons and it makes sense but why is it that some have to make it more than what it is?  Move on!  Let's look at the positive things.....there is a great group of players that we will soon see what they can do on the court and there will be more in the future - no doubt!
 

Come on, you can't tell me athletes at any level deserve more or less consideration than any other person. We all make and accept commitments which we are expected to honor. Sometimes better opportunities for us arise and we have to make a decision, break a previous commitment or honor the said contract. We each then make our decision.

Holdren is a nice kid who accepted a scholarship from SDSU understanding that his tuition would be paid for while he played BB at SDSU. He has broken that commitment to return home for whatever reason. This is fact. I won't allow the blame to fall on anyone but Holdren. He chose to leave.

As for what others on this forum might do, IRRELEVENT!! This is a forum about SDSU athletics. Holdren was an SDSU athlete. Therefore, the discussion is about him.

[JackTwice]

Re: Holdren transferring to Illinois

Solari was on Craig and Mike today.

Caught the last minute or so of them talking about the BB team. Essentially his word was the cupboard is not bare and that this is a set back but it is not life threatening (at least that's what I took from it). they also discussed the Mid-Con and conference potential.

Surprisingly Craig didn't take any of his usual pot shots or make any of the normal yeah right noises he normally does and it stayed positive the whole time I listened. Anybody get a chance to hear the whole story?

[SD-STATE]

Re: Holdren transferring to Illinois

Come on, you can't tell me athletes at any level deserve more or less consideration than any other person. We all make and accept commitments which we are expected to honor. Sometimes better opportunities for us arise and we have to make a decision, break a previous commitment or honor the said contract. We each then make our decision.

Holdren is a nice kid who accepted a scholarship from SDSU understanding that his tuition would be paid for while he played BB at SDSU. He has broken that commitment to return home for whatever reason. This is fact. I won't allow the blame to fall on anyone but Holdren. He chose to leave.

If a person doesn't want to be here, then do we really want them here. A committment from someone that doesn't wish to be here does not mean alot. Holdren has become a victim of his own success on this board. If he wasn't as good as was, none of us would care less if he decided to leave. He was good so some of us get angry and accuse him of stabbing us in the back. If an athlete doesn't deserve any more or less consideration than any other person, then I guess there really isn't any more reason to talk about it.

[RodentiaX1]

Re: Holdren transferring to Illinois

Holdren is a nice kid who accepted a scholarship from SDSU understanding that his tuition would be paid for while he played BB at SDSU. He has broken that commitment to return home for whatever reason.

If the commitment was that his tuition would be paid while he played for SDSU, then he has not broken that committment - SDSU won't be paying his tuition next year. If the commitment was that he remain at SDSU for four years, that would be different. If a coach cuts a player, is that a violation of a committment? If I take a job, but at some time in the future, I give notice that I am taking another job, have I violated a committment? As far as I know, he didn't sign anything obligating him to remain at SDSU.

That being said, I do generally think less highly of players who leave to go somewhere else.