Utah Valley State

[DenverBison]

Re: Utah Valley State

The Jacks have gotten better as the season has progressed. Remember, for example, the Kent State game in November? Unfortunately, SDSU has had to virtually start over every season since going D-1. The team remains under-manned now, but don't blame that on the players who have stayed with the team.  NDSU and, I presume, Utah Valley, have succeeded with a steady build-up of talent and good fortune.

I dont think we've had that much good fourtune this year. We're only dressing 8 players because of injuries.

[SD-STATE]

Re: Utah Valley State

Cry me a river buddy.

[DenverBison]

Re: Utah Valley State

Cry me a river buddy.

Right back at you :

[JackerRabbit]

Re: Utah Valley State

I think what he's trying to say is:

1. There is no earthly way you can say NDSU has had as much bad luck as SDSU. I mean you're dressing 8 this year, we've been dressing 8 for three years. Plus the whole "rape trial" thing, our best player transferring to Illinois, a player leaving for the year because of a death in the family, Andy Moeller transferring as soon as we went D-I, Matt Jones never playing again because of a mystery Illness, Joe Green transferring because ????, Jake Wenig transferring for the same reason ???, a JUCO point guard showing up two years ago to quit the night before midnight madness, a JUCO player never seeing a game this year because of a pregnancy he wanted to be a part of, the list goes on and on. Forgive us for not thinking that the Bison dressing 8 is a big deal. When I see Steve Walker in a basketball uniform for the Bison maybe I'll be a little more compassionate.

2. You guys have beat or competed with several top 25 teams since the transition started. Andre Smith ended up at NDSU after committing to another school and backing out at the last minute. Not a single player (that matters) has transferred out of your program. You managed to get K-State in for a home game. When you beat Wisconsin they shot what, 15% from the floor? I don't care how good the Bison defense was, they didn't hold Wisconsin THAT low.

If thats not good luck, then you must think that you need a national championship to have "good luck". The basketball gods have smiled on NDSU since this transition started, I don't think theres anyway to deny it. Think about it, 3 years ago you weren't even competing for an NCC championship, and now you beat Marquette at their place. You really think that luck hasn't been any part of that?

***I'm not trashing your program, I'm just saying that luck has played an important part of your success, as it does for all successful teams.***

[DenverBison]

Re: Utah Valley State

I think what he's trying to say is:

1.  There is no earthly way you can say NDSU has had as much bad luck as SDSU.  I mean you're dressing 8 this year, we've been dressing 8 for three years.  Plus the whole "rape trial" thing, our best player transferring to Illinois, a player leaving for the year because of a death in the family, Andy Moeller transferring as soon as we went D-I, Matt Jones never playing again because of a mystery Illness, Joe Green transferring because ????, Jake Wenig transferring for the same reason ???, a JUCO point guard showing up two years ago to quit the night before midnight madness, a JUCO player never seeing a game this year because of a pregnancy he wanted to be a part of, the list goes on and on.  Forgive us for not thinking that the Bison dressing 8 is a big deal.  When I see Steve Walker in a basketball uniform for the Bison maybe I'll be a little more compassionate.  

2.  You guys have beat or competed with several top 25 teams since the transition started.  Andre Smith ended up at NDSU after committing to another school and backing out at the last minute.  Not a single player (that matters) has transferred out of your program.  You managed to get K-State in for a home game.  When you beat Wisconsin they shot what, 15% from the floor?  I don't care how good the Bison defense was, they didn't hold Wisconsin THAT low.    

If thats not good luck, then you must think that you need a national championship to have "good luck".  The basketball gods have smiled on NDSU since this transition started, I don't think theres anyway to deny it.  Think about it, 3 years ago you weren't even competing for an NCC championship, and now you beat Marquette at their place.  You really think that luck hasn't been any part of that?  

***I'm not trashing your program, I'm just saying that luck has played an important part of your success, as it does for all successful teams.***  

Maybe I took the original point wrong, and Im probably being too defensive of my team; but what fan isn't. I do think that SDSU has had a streak of bad luck, but other then the Wisconsin game (we played them at just the right time) I dont think we have had that much luck. If you look at the Marquette game, we had our 2 best players with the flu that week, and Woodside was playing on a sprained ankle. We had our share of bad luck (although no where near yours) and yet preservered. I just think that saying our sucess is based on good fortune is selling the NDSU team short.

[JackerRabbit]

Re: Utah Valley State

I don't think anybody is selling Miles or your team short, its just like I said, you've had some good luck, but every single team that has ever been successful has had good luck. Miles has done an incredible job recruiting the pieces for a successful team, and has been great at keeping them motivated and in the program, even during their redshirt year.

I'm also positive that you guys have the best center/ PF out of any of the indy's, and one of the top 3 in the mid-con right now. If Miles can replace him next season, the Bison will be in the NIT. I'm looking for the Bison to be a conference favorite next year.

[SD-STATE]

Re: Utah Valley State

I think what he's trying to say is:

1. There is no earthly way you can say NDSU has had as much bad luck as SDSU. I mean you're dressing 8 this year, we've been dressing 8 for three years. Plus the whole "rape trial" thing, our best player transferring to Illinois, a player leaving for the year because of a death in the family, Andy Moeller transferring as soon as we went D-I, Matt Jones never playing again because of a mystery Illness, Joe Green transferring because ????, Jake Wenig transferring for the same reason ???, a JUCO point guard showing up two years ago to quit the night before midnight madness, a JUCO player never seeing a game this year because of a pregnancy he wanted to be a part of, the list goes on and on. Forgive us for not thinking that the Bison dressing 8 is a big deal. When I see Steve Walker in a basketball uniform for the Bison maybe I'll be a little more compassionate.

2. You guys have beat or competed with several top 25 teams since the transition started. Andre Smith ended up at NDSU after committing to another school and backing out at the last minute. Not a single player (that matters) has transferred out of your program. You managed to get K-State in for a home game. When you beat Wisconsin they shot what, 15% from the floor? I don't care how good the Bison defense was, they didn't hold Wisconsin THAT low.

If thats not good luck, then you must think that you need a national championship to have "good luck". The basketball gods have smiled on NDSU since this transition started, I don't think theres anyway to deny it. Think about it, 3 years ago you weren't even competing for an NCC championship, and now you beat Marquette at their place. You really think that luck hasn't been any part of that?

***I'm not trashing your program, I'm just saying that luck has played an important part of your success, as it does for all successful teams.***

You definetely got the jist of it, well said.

[Jacks99]

Re: Utah Valley State

I was dissapointed with their attitude more than anything and that in turn affects performance. Now they got an important win and the NDSU game should get them fired up.

[Jacked_Up]

Re: Utah Valley State

Not to diminish what NDSU has accomplished (I'm envious of their recent basketball success), but all teams have to deal with injuries and illnesses. Dealing with multiple incidents of family crisis, academic failure, unexpected transfers, and that ugly investigation do indeed take bad luck to a whole new level. That run of misfortune appears to be ending at SDSU. It's some other school's turn to walk under the ladder for awhile.

[DenverBison]

Re: Utah Valley State

Not to diminish what NDSU has accomplished (I'm envious of their recent basketball success), but all teams have to deal with injuries and illnesses. Dealing with multiple incidents of family crisis, academic failure, unexpected transfers, and that ugly investigation do indeed take bad luck to a whole new level. That run of misfortune appears to be ending at SDSU. It's some other school's turn to walk under the ladder for awhile.

Hopefully UND and USD ;D

I hope I dont come across as being a pompous ass in my posts. I do cheer for SDSU in every game, except for when their playing the Bison. Hopefully your men will start to come around and be a sucessful as your women's team. Likewise I hope our women's team will start to be as sucessful as our men team has been.

[valleyrabbit]

Re: Utah Valley State

How did these two school's basketball teams reverse roles. It used to be the Bison women and Jackrabbit men dominating now it is the Bison men and Jackrabbit women.

[filbert]

Re: Utah Valley State

How did these two school's basketball teams reverse roles. It used to be the Bison women and Jackrabbit men dominating now it is the Bison men and Jackrabbit women.

The transition to D-I is not as easy or as straightforward as some (*cough* USD *cough*) would like to believe. The saying "pride goeth before a fall" comes to mind when considering the fates of both the NDSU women and (especially) the SDSU men.

I think most SDSU fans thought that the transition from D-II power to at least being a respectable D-I men's basketball would be a piece of cake. It isn't. Success in D-I men's basketball is, as we have discovered to our woe, fantastically hard. SDSU men's basketball has been exceptionally unlucky in personnel since moving to D-I--players leaving due to illness, transfer back to hometowns, legal troubles, etc., etc.). I think it's inarguable that NDSU has been more fortunate in recruiting and maintaining D-I-level talent than SDSU has been to date--although SDSU's freshmen this year will probably be as good or better than NDSU's vaunted freshmen class of last year. Over time, as both schools get into Mid-Con play, my expectation is that both Land-Grants will consistently be in the upper division of the Mid-Con and annually challenge for the conference title and an NCAA tournament bid.

Parenthetically, Kennesaw State, who won the D-II title in SDSU's last year in that division (and who SDSU beat that season, by the way) is this year 7-15 against D-I competition and has a Sagarin rating of 296 (SDSU's numbers were 5-15 and 305). Not really much difference there. An objective observer would conclude that D-II success does NOT translate into D-I success in men's basketball.

As for the women, I'd venture to say that NDSU's program is really about where you'd expect it to be--a 161 Sagarin rating and a 6-9 D-I record. SDSU is vastly overachieving in women's basketball with a Sagarin rating of 31 and a 13-5 record against what Sagarin says is the 28th toughest schedule of any D-I school in the country.

SDSU has no business being the #31 ranked team in D-I in ANY sport at this point in the transition. That's why what AJ and the women's basketball team has accomplished is so amazing.

[BTownJack]

Re: Utah Valley State

I don't know if it can be said much better than that...great post Filbert