Onward and upward

[BornBredBunny]

Re: Onward and upward

Okay, I've really tried to not post my thoughts on this subjects as occasionally my thoughts aren't the most positive and some people really don't like that but......I tried ladies and gents, I really did!!!

Nagy is a good coach, PERIOD!!! He can coach at the division 1 level just fine; what he's proven he can't do all by himself is recruit at the D1 level! He needs that extra assistant coach to help him in this department and somebody preferably as good as Matt Margenthaler would be very nice! I know I've mentioned this before but our transition has been about as rocky as it can get and here's why:

-- Matt Jones is forced to cut his college career short due to injury and illness

-- Andy Moeller leaves for various reasons

-- Margenthaler gets his head coaching opportunity and as we can all see, has taken full advantage of it!!!

-- the graduation of some horses depleted the talent level of the program at about the same time we made the jump

-- Not going to name names, but the people Nagy brought in to replace Margenthaler just didn't get it done on the recruiting trail for various reasons

Now that we have that cleared up, the only way we start to get any better is get better players! End of story!!! I feel like I'm being pretty obvious here but I sure seems like some fans aren't watching the same games I am. Conference affiliation should really help in this department so I agree with those of you who now say Coach is on the clock....No improvement over the next couple of season and it's probably time for him to move on. That being said, he will right the ship and SDSU will become a perennial power in the Summit League -- morphing into a Butler or Gonzaga program is just being unrealistic! (And to whatever idiot said he truely thought Kai Williams is more talented than Tyler Hansborough -- ARE YOU F*%KING KIDDING ME!!! Kai is easily the most talented player we have but isn't even in the same galaxy as Psycho T -- soon to be Player of the Year, 3 time All American Tyler Hansborough; I'm not sure I can relate how strong my feelings are for that most idiotic of statements -- being a homer isn't a bad thing, being a complete idiot is!)

We use our conference affiliation to start recruiting better players, we start seeing on court results! Easy as that. This group of kids may be great kids who work hard and represent SDSU very well (which shouldn't be overlooked but we're talking about winning games!) but they've proven they just aren't a very good basketball team...Sorry, but the on court results say I ain't lying!

On the topic of next year, I don't care who starts...until we develop a much better inside presence, it's going to be another long season for Rabbit Nation.

Sorry if this offends anybody to the bone, but this is what I truely feel! I'll be a Rabbit till the day I die, but I'm entitled to my opinion and I'm pretty cranky over what I see on the court these past couple of years!!!

[RabbitinTea]

Re: Onward and upward

Let me start by saying I'm completely on the fence right now with regards to coach Nagy. I believe he's a good coach, but may end up taking the fall for the program's downturn. However, it seems like there are some things that don't quite add up. Some say we don't have the talent, but how do you explain being in all those close games? I think that would imply that our talent level is capabable of, at least, competing with the teams that were on the schedule. I'm not buying the youth excuse any more. By the end of the season, these guys have quite a bit of experience. The excuse can account for some of the losses, but I think it would be naive to assume that we lost ALL those close games just because of youth. I also think bad luck might be a factor. I don't think anyone can deny that good coaching CAN make the difference in a close game. That doesn't mean they're always the difference, but once in a while they can affect the outcome of a close game. This is what I'm struggling with the most. Coaches don't play the game and they can't impact the game the same way as the players, but they are able to impact the game in smaller ways. One of those ways is coaching in late game scenarios. Youth or not, talent or not, you can't lose that many 2nd half leads and close games without questioning the ability of the coach. I don't think anyone wants to question Nagy's ability, especially me as I grew up watching him coach...but it seems to be a valid question at this point. I need to see this team get better late in games and start winning some close ones.

[BornBredBunny]

Re: Onward and upward

Those are some vaild concerns. Typically speaking, guard play wins close games and it's hard to argue our guards have been subpar when compared to the competition level they are competing against. Better guards recruited = less close losses and more actual wins! Nagy coaches in a similar fashion to Roy Williams at North Carolina and to a lesser degree Coach K -- let the players figure out some of the stuff on their own; I don't think anybody really wants a return to the Soderberg days when every trip down the floor looked like a root canal and set plays were everywhere! As with Roy, Nagy looks like a genius when he has good guard play....Nuff said!

[Nidaros]

Re: Onward and upward

Let me start by saying I'm completely on the fence right now with regards to coach Nagy. I believe he's a good coach, but may end up taking the fall for the program's downturn. However, it seems like there are some things that don't quite add up. Some say we don't have the talent, but how do you explain being in all those close games? I think that would imply that our talent level is capabable of, at least, competing with the teams that were on the schedule. I'm not buying the youth excuse any more. By the end of the season, these guys have quite a bit of experience. The excuse can account for some of the losses, but I think it would be naive to assume that we lost ALL those close games just because of youth. I also think bad luck might be a factor. I don't think anyone can deny that good coaching CAN make the difference in a close game. That doesn't mean they're always the difference, but once in a while they can affect the outcome of a close game. This is what I'm struggling with the most. Coaches don't play the game and they can't impact the game the same way as the players, but they are able to impact the game in smaller ways. One of those ways is coaching in late game scenarios. Youth or not, talent or not, you can't lose that many 2nd half leads and close games without questioning the ability of the coach. I don't think anyone wants to question Nagy's ability, especially me as I grew up watching him coach...but it seems to be a valid question at this point. I need to see this team get better late in games and start winning some close ones.

I tend to agree with most of your post, and I think Coach Nagy is going up against some very good people who are the opposing coaches in the Summit League. Has Coach Nagy been snookered a time or two? I think so, but when we compare these Summit Coaches with the NCC, there was a certain familiarity with each NCC coach. Coach Nagy got to know and knew what to expect out of each NCC coach. With the Summit the familiarity is not there. I suppose he could have called each and every opposing coach that played one of any of our Summit opponents and tried to learn all he could about each Summit guy and still not found out what there is to learn about each coach. Until you go eye ball to eye ball a time or two, you can not possibly learn that much about each coach. Game videos do not always tell the full story either.

Add to that we are still not fully staffed with the necessary staff. MJA says a third assistant would not solve our problems and it may not. Even Centenary seemed to have a bigger staff. When you start your eyeball with head coach and follow the bench you seem to see four or more suits before you see a subsitute player. We are missing a suit or two. That makes a difference in what you accompolish in practice with a very young team.

Is the talent there? Yes give it a chance to develope.

I dont worry about making coaching changes because I am not the President of SDSU nor am I the AD. This is their call and they will make it when they think its the right thing to do.

Hiring and Firing coaches does not always guarentee success. I think of Kansas State that went through a ton of football coaches before they found one who was the right fit. I cant think of his name except that he started at K-state the same year Mike Daly started at SDSU as head coach. I kept kind of a parallel watch on both who won more than lost.

Lastly resources are a big part of a coaching change especially at the D1 level. Coach Nagy is making maybe 150k. Could we find another D1 coach who would work for 150k? I doubt it and if we found him we might have bigger problems than what we have now after one or two seasons as he might not give a hoot about the community or SDSU and might just do as he pleases and then leave. The next guy would probably be worse yet. So just giving some one the ax in hopes of curing the problem is not always the answer.

Should Andy Fastow and Jeff Skilling been fired from Enron? You darn tooting they should have as they were flat out dishonest people and they are both sitting in the Federal Prison where they belong. If you fire some one, we need a darn good reason. I think Coach Nagy has a few bucks left in the credibilty bank so lets give him some more time to straighten the ship.

A string of close loses this year may make a stronger team next year. Lets play the game and go with what we have and not worry about what we should have.

[CatchEmAll]

Re: Onward and upward

Best piece of "advice" I was ever given while playing football was from former QB Todd McDonald a few games into my freshman season (redshirt pulled) - "Dammit Hines, you're not a freshman anymore". I hadn't thought that way myself, but after that I did think differently about how I was playing.

Point being, at a certain point even the players know they should be able to perform at a given level no matter what year in school they are. You learn from playing better opponents and pick up certain ways of playing because of that. It makes you better. It's up to the player to convert some of that into game play.

[rabbit_boy]

Re: Onward and upward

What should happen with the open scholarship? I would give it to the younger Callahan but a JC big would be nice too.

[SDSUJack3031]

Re: Onward and upward

Let me start by saying I'm completely on the fence right now with regards to coach Nagy. I believe he's a good coach, but may end up taking the fall for the program's downturn. However, it seems like there are some things that don't quite add up. Some say we don't have the talent, but how do you explain being in all those close games? I think that would imply that our talent level is capabable of, at least, competing with the teams that were on the schedule. I'm not buying the youth excuse any more. By the end of the season, these guys have quite a bit of experience. The excuse can account for some of the losses, but I think it would be naive to assume that we lost ALL those close games just because of youth. I also think bad luck might be a factor. I don't think anyone can deny that good coaching CAN make the difference in a close game. That doesn't mean they're always the difference, but once in a while they can affect the outcome of a close game. This is what I'm struggling with the most. Coaches don't play the game and they can't impact the game the same way as the players, but they are able to impact the game in smaller ways. One of those ways is coaching in late game scenarios. Youth or not, talent or not, you can't lose that many 2nd half leads and close games without questioning the ability of the coach. I don't think anyone wants to question Nagy's ability, especially me as I grew up watching him coach...but it seems to be a valid question at this point. I need to see this team get better late in games and start winning some close ones.

This all makes sense, but I think he deserves this type of excuse for this year. If he loses many close games next year, then obviously we can say it has to do with the coaching. I still think coach Nagy knows what he's doing.

[FargoBison]

Re: Onward and upward

Than I get blasted by comparing the Summit League to the NCC. But the best teams in the NCC would be very competitive in the Summit league. the best SDSU teams would not finish dead last. Maybe middle of the pack to top half of the league but not last. Ask Tim Miles, his NDSU teams went into places where they thought they had no chance, (Marquette and Wisconsin) and won. He would tell you that these teams were not even his best teams. It can be done, but 1st the adminstration has to believe and invest in the program, than the players and coaches have to believe, and than the fans have to believe. We can compete at this level, just ask Tim Miles!

This is ridiculous, the team Miles had with Woody, Nelson, and Winks is far better then any NDSU team ever put together. NDSU's first year I watched a team made up of entirely our old NCC players go out and lose every DI game, almost beat Mankato(who was a top 5 DII team), and beat a few other good DII teams. NDSU went 16-2 against non-DI competition that year and that same team was getting beat consistently by five true freshman in practice. In the Summit League those freshman are now juniors and still only finished 4th. I'd say Summit League basketball is much better then the NCC, NDSU would dismantle the NCC.

I do agree that all the fans have to do is believe, you hit the jackpot with one good class and you can go from a bad DI team to decent pretty fast.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Onward and upward

I guess we need to look at Sienna. Made it to the Big Dance three years removed from their worst season ever, at least according to ESPN radio this morning.

[BTownJack]

Re: Onward and upward

I guess we need to look at Sienna. Made it to the Big Dance three years removed from their worst season ever, at least according to ESPN radio this morning.

Yes, in 2005 they were 6-24 with and end of the season RPI of 297.

http://www.kenpom.com/rpi.php?y=2005

[Just in the crowd]

Re: Onward and upward

With a young team?

21 James Carr RS FR C 6-9 250 Bronx, N.Y./Wings Academy
0 Chris De La Rosa FR G 5-9 165 Washington Heights, N.Y./All Hallows
12 Josh Duell RS JR F 6-7 252 Scotia, N.Y./Christian Bros. Academy
4 Tay Fisher SR G 5-9 162 Kingston, N.Y./Kingston
42 Alex Franklin SO F 6-5 228 Reading, Pa./Central Catholic3
2 Erik Harris RS SO C 6-9 223 Swedesboro, N.J./Kingsway Regional
41 Kenny Hasbrouck JR G 6-3 192 Capital Heights, Md./Maine Central Prep
13 Clarence Jackson FR G 6-3 180 Marlton, N.J./Cherokee
24 Cory Magee SO F 6-7 223 Fairport, N.Y./Fairport
25 Ronald Moore SO G 6-0 157 Conshohocken, Pa./Plymouth Whitemarsh
43 Steven Priestley FR F 6-5 239 Baldwin, N.Y./Uniondale
22 Ryan Rossiter FR F 6-9 216 Staten Island, N.Y./Monsignor Farrell
23 Edwin Ubiles SO G/F 6-6 197 Poughkeepsie, N.Y./St. Thomas More

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Onward and upward

I made the reference to Sienna in regards to turning things around, I had no idea whether they had 12 seniors or 12 freshman on the team. Just that the schools worst season ever was 3 years ago and this year they made the tourney.

[FargoBison]

Re: Onward and upward

Just look at Drake, they went from being a MVC nobody to a top 25 team in one season.

[BTownJack]

Re: Onward and upward

Just look at Drake, they went from being a MVC nobody to a top 25 team in one season.

I agree with you there...it still blows me away that they were selected to get 9th of the 10 teams in the MVC this year. That my friends is impressive!

http://www.mvc-sports.com/ViewArticl...ATCLID=1286125

[rabbit_boy]

Re: Onward and upward

Just from watching a lot of other low/mid majors play I agree with the person who noted that we need to get a little more athletic. This problem is probably solved IF Dale turns into a 25-30 min a game player.

I also think we need to decide on a point guard, either Palarca or Callahan. I could see Garrett as being a very effective 6th msn backing up both guard positions .

I have already commented on the state of our post players.