GDT: SDSU vs #9 Arkansas 7pm @ Bud Walton Arena SEC Network+

[bigticket1]

And, I think I heard that Arkansas has zero starters returning this year, so...yeah, them too.

If that's right, it's pretty impressive that they are ranked at # 9 in the country.

[LetsGoRabbits]

I suppose I’d agree to some extent, last year we were spoiled having 3 great players return (Baylor, Noah, and wilson) and they started the season great, this year it just feels like we have a team of OK roleplayers and because of that the offensive doesn’t flow well at all, a lot of undisciplined errors

i definitely believe we have plenty of guys who are much more than role players and much more than ok

but as i stated earlier i do NOT know if we have any guy who is gonna be A GUY or THE GUY. lots of good players but i think they are gonna really have to find ways to get it done as a team. gonna have to have much quicker crisper ball movement and player movement.

everyone has been talking about the difference in 3pt shooting. well we are getting ZERO 3s off of passes coming out of the post. how many 3s did we hit tonight?? 3 i think Zeke had one Te Slaa had one and Lien had the one at the end
it was not exactly off a post move but Dent did get the ball in the paint and found Tanner in the corner. that is as close as i can remember to a LOT of the 3s we have had the last 3 years

if we dont have a player who individually causes the defense to get out of position and get them to begin chasing, then we have to do it with crisp and meaningful cuts and passes

[LetsGoRabbits]

If that's right, it's pretty impressive that they are ranked at # 9 in the country.

definitely what Tyler said on the radio. they lost all 5 starters from last year but they have 3 guys who are expected to be drafted in the first round. that could probably land you in the top 10)) i did not catch all the Heights but they were SO long and very very athletic and they played very aggressive

cannot say it was fun to see the jacks get a whooping like this but that team is very impressive. it will be very interesting to see what they accomplish this year

[Jackbacker123]

I suppose I’d agree to some extent, last year we were spoiled having 3 great players return (Baylor, Noah, and wilson) and they started the season great, this year it just feels like we have a team of OK roleplayers and because of that the offensive doesn’t flow well at all, a lot of undisciplined errors

That is a good description of the team so far, a group of OK role players. Appel looks good so far in his limited minutes but outside of him, there is a lot of work to do and to me it starts with taking care of the ball. The amount of TOs so far this year is crazy.

[LetsGoRabbits]

If you're going to T someone up for a flop, it really needs to be a damn obvious flop.

OKAY i mentioned it in the St Bonnie thread but NOBODY else is saying a thing, SO WHAT DID I MISS??? the flop call was questionable but those are always a bit subjective and i kind of expect the home team to get the better of it

but WHATEVER he called? flop warning?? flop technical? floppy crack corn and i dont care?? but ahhh?? excuse me? if you are going to make a call DONT YOU STOP GAME PLAY???

the flop happened. the guy passes the freaking ball OUT TO THE 3pt line another guy shoots the ball and drops a 3!! THEN play is stopped and they shoot a FT

WHAT?? my head is still spinning! dogs are purring! cats are barking! what strange place am i living in?

i have no idea what happened so please someone EITHER explain what the heck happened OR join me in my incredulity and disgust)))

well at least it feels better to get it out)) the cat stopped barking)))

[Jacked_Up]

It's a little early for a fan meltdown.The Jacks lost by 15 on the road to the ninth-ranked team in the nation. We lost a lot of talent from last year, but we have a lot of talent on this team, too. We might have to exercise patience as we watch it develop. At least until conference games begin..

[LetsGoRabbits]

It's a little early for a fan meltdown.The Jacks lost by 15 on the road to the ninth-ranked team in the nation. We lost a lot of talent from last year, but we have a lot of talent on this team, too. We might have to exercise patience as we watch it develop. At least until conference games begin..

i am curious what do you see that indicates a meltdown?

usually regarding MBB there are some who begin to say the team is unprepared and start talking about bad coaching. i dont recall any of that to this point. i was kind of proud of the way everyone was taking this so far. NO BIG THING!!! was just curious what you saw


that said the final of 15 gave no indication of the whooping the rabbits got tonight. but all things considered, 4th game, second night of back to back, flying in late and having an unusual schedule / game day sechedule, playing a top 10 team with apparently 3 future first round nba picks, i do not think the jacks need to feel overly embarrassed, but......

i do hope they are a bit TICKED OFF! i think it was obvious Charlie does not like it and i was impressed i thought i saw some fire and attitude from Tanner T. this team DEFINITELY needs to get better. hopefully this game will be a catalyst to getting some things ironed out

[RochJack69]

Nice to see the start that Kyle III is having, hopefully he stays for his full 4 years. I'd say they are doing well considering what players the team lost from last year. Arkansas is the real deal, almost like playing a NBA development team.

[naters_gonna_nate]

i am curious what do you see that indicates a meltdown?

usually regarding MBB there are some who begin to say the team is unprepared and start talking about bad coaching. i dont recall any of that to this point. i was kind of proud of the way everyone was taking this so far. NO BIG THING!!! was just curious what you saw


that said the final of 15 gave no indication of the whooping the rabbits got tonight. but all things considered, 4th game, second night of back to back, flying in late and having an unusual schedule / game day sechedule, playing a top 10 team with apparently 3 future first round nba picks, i do not think the jacks need to feel overly embarrassed, but......

i do hope they are a bit TICKED OFF! i think it was obvious Charlie does not like it and i was impressed i thought i saw some fire and attitude from Tanner T. this team DEFINITELY needs to get better. hopefully this game will be a catalyst to getting some things ironed out

I think I'd classify my feeling through four games as "uneasiness" with the turnovers, lack of inside out movement (as you've mentioned), and poor shooting. Really poor shooting. It's just really out of sync and I admittedly thought Zeke would be more of the alpha, floor general player thus far. I do certainly expect him to step up and play better basketball this year but I maybe had too high of expectations there. I also think Alex just hasn't played very well either at PG. We've all seen him play better.

We certainly need to temper expectations and understand it's at least some version of rebuild off of last year. But this is a good team that needs to work out some fairly ugly kinks thus far on offense. It just hasn't been pleasant offense to watch the last two nights. Lots of young pieces that will hopefully continue meshing.

[peavy]

...
i have no idea what happened so please someone EITHER explain what the heck happened OR join me in my incredulity and disgust)))
...

Here are the calls from yesterday and today (two angles on Easley play). In both plays where it was called, you can see the ref making the flop indication (straightening of the elbows motion) prior to the play being completed. Safe to assume they just let play continue before making the call.

I still have zero idea why Easley's warranted one but the one with Kyle didn't. In Kyle's case, the defender slid over to create contact and got clipped on the arm and then fell over. The ref who made the Easley call (which had much more obvious contact) was out of the picture on the Kyle call meaning he had to have been at half-court, so he obviously saw Appel's large gesture. Was it because Easley (whose fall may have been more pronounced) slid back further, or maybe the ref who made the call in the 2nd half took offense to Appel/Mims from the no-call?

[LetsGoRabbits]

I think I'd classify my feeling through four games as "uneasiness" with the turnovers, lack of inside out movement (as you've mentioned), and poor shooting. Really poor shooting. It's just really out of sync and I admittedly thought Zeke would be more of the alpha, floor general player thus far. I do certainly expect him to step up and play better basketball this year but I maybe had too high of expectations there. I also think Alex just hasn't played very well either at PG. We've all seen him play better.

We certainly need to temper expectations and understand it's at least some version of rebuild off of last year. But this is a good team that needs to work out some fairly ugly kinks thus far on offense. It just hasn't been pleasant offense to watch the last two nights. Lots of young pieces that will hopefully continue meshing.

from everything i know Zeke was definitely the guy in HS. but he definitely did not have to be last year. maybe he is gonna get there but at this moment it looks questionable to me. WE HAVE seen Alex play PG very well. it was two years ago. the last two years he has kind of shared the spot and / or been just a Mr fill in and do whatever we need you to do.

two years ago baylor was not even baylor yet. but Noah had an awesome year and Doug was POY and very deservingly so! both of those guys were SO agressive and just wanted the ball and wanted to take the shot!! Point being that it was different playing the point two years ago. he was more of a manager / caretaker and Hendo ALWAYS talked about what a good job he did getting the team into the offense. and as i recall he had very few turnovers that year!

Now it is more asking him to run the point and BE the creator for himself or someone else not a caretaker but a creator

Doug and Noah were THE GUY 2 years ago. they definitely shared the ball but they wanted the ball when it mattered and they would and could pass it if that is what the play called for but they had NO FEAR of taking the shot. even at the beginning of the last two years Noah had some games like that. last year against Bama i am pretty sure he had 23 also 23 at Washington. (baylor got the publicity for hitting the last shot but he shot terrible in both of those games as i recall)

anyway it feels to me like we might have a bunch of very good number two guys. when you put them with a number one guy sometimes they can look like a number one but not every night. maybe someone steps into that?? we will see but i think they will find a way to be good regardless

i think it is gonna be interesting to see how Hendo coaches this year. he has been here 3 years and had the POY twice and the other year they were just as talented. he was here 3 years as an assistant and had the POY all 3 times. life might be a little different this year. jacks are still gonna be good but i believe it is going to look different. curious to see how Hendo manages that

he is gonna have to build someone up into the guy or get them to all be the best version of themselves without having A GUY to lean on

the shooting?? i believe Zeke is a good shooter.

AA has always been streaky from deep. (i absolutely love the kid but with that shot how could he NOT be streaky. DEFINITELY not the way you teach it)

I really have no idea how good of shooters Mims and Charlie are? are they pure shooters or are they streaky shooters who scored plenty in HS?? as i recall Charlie's HS percentages were pretty good. dont recall Mims. they have both had a number of good looks not hit the bottom of the net. that probably changes

from everything i know Te Slaa is a good shooter and so far he looks like it. i am pretty sure that Garry is a good shooter but gonna have to find out if he has the rest of the game at this level and it sounds like the plan is to redshirt him.

I thought coming in that Lien was supposed to be a big who shot the 3 well?? anyone else hear anything? so far he definitely is not looking like the return of Mike Daum or even Mike's second cousin but it is VERY early

I recall Mors shooting pretty well when he was younger in HS but seemed like his 3pt shooting got more inconsistent as he aged. but i did not see him a TON so maybe someone know different. i believe he is gonna need to be able to hit open 3s because i am not sure he has the athleticism or size to win inside if he does not scare anyone with his outside shot. seems a GREAT kid! and a very experienced smart instinctive hoopster but if he cannot shoot it he does not really have any physical advantages

ANYWAY, Hendo is gonna keep preaching to KNOW and TAKE good shots. THAT HELPS! and i think the shooting will come but like everything else IT IS GONNA LOOK DIFFERENT. the guys that are TICKED about getting whipped tonight and who HATE losing are gonna get in the gym and work to find a way to change this crud we are seeing!! i hope most of the team falls into that category


I am really sorry the long posts are SO HARMFUL to some of you! TRULY!! but One of my favorite parts of coaching was sitting with the other coaches after the game and talking about the game / analyzing the game. in my favorite scenarios i had another coach on the staff who loved it too and with a few of them it was common to sit up until WAY after midnight talking about the game. SORRY i guess old habits die hard!!
as a head coach i DEFINITELY never required any of my assistants to stay that late!!! and i dont require anyone to listen to what i have to say here either!!

i absolutely DO NOT think i know it all !!!!!! i am a bonehead and make plenty of mistakes and sometimes put my foot in my mouth. i just love to think about / talk about sports and jackrabbit sports even more!!!

[LetsGoRabbits]

[QUOTE=peavy;n528130]

Here are the calls from yesterday and today (two angles on Easley play). In both plays where it was called, you can see the ref making the flop indication (straightening of the elbows motion) prior to the play being completed. Safe to assume they just let play continue before making the call.

I still have zero idea why Easley's warranted one but the one with Kyle didn't. In Kyle's case, the defender slid over to create contact and got clipped on the arm and then fell over. The ref who made the Easley call (which had much more obvious contact) was out of the picture on the Kyle call meaning he had to have been at half-court, so he obviously saw Appel's large gesture. Was it because Easley (whose fall may have been more pronounced) slid back further, or maybe the ref who made the call in the 2nd half took offense to Appel/Mims from the no-call?

SORRY! tried to eliminate the videos and broke the quote system. what follows is my response to what is quoted from Peavy

hey peavy thank you for trying to help this knucklehead out!!

i guess you are saying that this is the proper administration of this call. i guess i can see if it is a warning allowing play to continue. but if you are going to administer FTs?? anyway it seems awfully strange to me. i thought ONE of the main reasons for wanting to STOP the flops was that it puts players in danger having another player on the ground

would you NOT THEN, stop the play for the safety of the players. anyway i will not go on. thank you again. this play seemed very weird. and yes the arkansas player definitely flopped on the baseline move by WK but that is a different conversation

[jakejc795]

[QUOTE=LetsGoRabbits;n528132]

Here are the calls from yesterday and today (two angles on Easley play). In both plays where it was called, you can see the ref making the flop indication (straightening of the elbows motion) prior to the play being completed. Safe to assume they just let play continue before making the call.

I still have zero idea why Easley's warranted one but the one with Kyle didn't. In Kyle's case, the defender slid over to create contact and got clipped on the arm and then fell over. The ref who made the Easley call (which had much more obvious contact) was out of the picture on the Kyle call meaning he had to have been at half-court, so he obviously saw Appel's large gesture. Was it because Easley (whose fall may have been more pronounced) slid back further, or maybe the ref who made the call in the 2nd half took offense to Appel/Mims from the no-call?

SORRY! tried to eliminate the videos and broke the quote system. what follows is my response to what is quoted from Peavy

hey peavy thank you for trying to help this knucklehead out!!

i guess you are saying that this is the proper administration of this call. i guess i can see if it is a warning allowing play to continue. but if you are going to administer FTs?? anyway it seems awfully strange to me. i thought ONE of the main reasons for wanting to STOP the flops was that it puts players in danger having another player on the ground

would you NOT THEN, stop the play for the safety of the players. anyway i will not go on. thank you again. this play seemed very weird. and yes the arkansas player definitely flopped on the baseline move by WK but that is a different conversation

For better or worse, the flop warning has been eliminated.

[RahRahRabbits]

[QUOTE=jakejc795;n528133]

For better or worse, the flop warning has been eliminated.

Jake - you beat me to it... was too busy writing a LGR style lengthy post

And yes, they are really cracking down on flopping this year, I was just looking at nearly the exact same article. No warnings are given, and a player is immediately given a class-B technical foul for "attempting to influence an official's judgement by creating an appearance that a foul has been committed when there has been incidental or no contact", resulting in one free throw for the opponent. They will allow the offense to follow the possession through though... but I think if they kick it back out to the 3-pt line, the play would be stopped. This also now includes even more subjective 'unnecessary head-bobs' by offensive players... see video link below. They're going to call them very tight the first few months of the season here, trying to eliminate flopping from the game. (Not sure why the obvious flop vs Kyle was not called, ref must have been thinking about where he was getting desert after the game).

Ejection looms after 2 class-A technical fouls, 3 class-B technical fouls, or 1 single Flagrant 2 foul as usual. These class-B technicals for flopping do NOT count to a players personal fouls, while class-A techs do. Not sure where ejection looms if you have a mix of class-A and B technical fouls... time will tell I guess.

NCAA referee bulletin's for flopping are pretty dry, but somewhat interesting. That's been their main focus so far this season in these type of videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm8T2lqJD7I

Other rule changes for this year include the introduction of tech/video reply available to the bench if leagues opt-in for it, or in the NIT/a few other multi-team tournaments.

[OldHare]

[QUOTE=LetsGoRabbits;n528131]


AA has always been streaky from deep. (i absolutely love the kid but with that shot how could he NOT be streaky. DEFINITELY not the way you teach it)

If you want to check the stats for the past 4 years for AA, you will find he has very good numbers overall for FG% & 3Pt%. In his first year, he shot 53% & 37%. In his 2nd season after moving from the 4 spot, he shot 44& & 35%. In year 3, he shot 50% & 44%. In year 4, he shot 48% & 49%. AA's shot may irritate you, but the numbers indicate more steady shooting than "streaky" unless I have a different view of streaky.
In the past season, the refs usually waited for play to finish on the flops as they would make the indication when the player flopped. That was on the warning for the first team flop. I cannot recall what happened to play for the 2nd infraction which resulted in the technical.