Breaking Through: What's Needed to win an NCAA game or two?

[filbert]

SDSU is close obviously . . . tied to Ohio State in the round of 64 with 2 minutes left, but just unable to seal the deal. What do the Jacks need to add/do better to get over the hump and win a game or two in the tournament?

Ground rules for this thread: Return of Mike Daum and TJ Otzelberger is assumed as a given.

I'll throw these things out for starters:

Schedule a killer non-conference schedule - - - three, four, five or more guarantee games against traditional basketball powers. Get the non-con RPI/Sagarin/Kenpom jacked up as high as it will go, even at the sacrifice of a home non-conference game or two.

Have Daum work hard on speed & agility, and on overall strength in the off season. He's too big to ever really be "quick" but he can improve.

Give Daum front-line players beside him who can take some of the defensive pressure off and absorb fouls Daum would otherwise pick up on defense.

Have Jenkins avoid the "sophomore slump" somehow.

Replace Tellinghuisen somehow.

Pray that four Summit League teams at least can crack the top 100 RPI/Sagarin/Kenpom, and that nobody is wallowing in the 300's.

I could go on, but . . . discuss!

[goon]

Re: Breaking Through: What's Needed to win an NCAA game or two?

I think after watching buffalo is frankly get the team to play more intense. we play good on offense and good shooter. but a team we beat, buffalo, dialed it up to 11. that's what it takes.

Yes a few more games against power conference teams to help the team prepare, but raising our win total or RPI or what ever the committee looks at to get a good seed again. Running the conference with out a loss would help.

[discoDancinJackrabbit]

Re: Breaking Through: What's Needed to win an NCAA game or two?

Aside from everybody making improvements and being the best that they can be blah blah blah I'm torn between two different things. I'll pick conditioning. It always amazes me how teams will look different against the major schools or at least the good ones. We give up easy buckets too often or some run out lay ups in transition typically in the second half. Also will launch uncharacteristically quick 3s that come up short. Our stamina tends to become a weakness against teams we have to work harder against. Somehow got to find an extra gear for the second half of these big games. I don't know if that's practicing harder developing a deeper bench or coaching philosophy of somekind but to control the second halves against top notch competition you can't be tired.

[CappinHard]

Re: Breaking Through: What's Needed to win an NCAA game or two?

I think after watching buffalo is frankly get the team to play more intense. we play good on offense and good shooter. but a team we beat, buffalo, dialed it up to 11. that's what it takes.

Yes a few more games against power conference teams to help the team prepare, but raising our win total or RPI or what ever the committee looks at to get a good seed again. Running the conference with out a loss would help.

You're on the right track with intensity, but to do that I think we need to get deeper. If 6 guys have 95% of your minutes, you're not going to be able to keep intensity up all game.

It's a process. Showing up in the tournament 3 times is huge. Recruiting should see a boost. We need to consistently land at least one really good recruit every year to start developing the depth that's needed to play with the big dogs. We just need to keep this momentum going. If we continue to own the Summit League and become a perennial team in the dance, the first win will happen, then a deeper run of 2 or 3 wins will happen. I would rather have sustained tournament appearances than making the tournament once every 8 years and winning a game or two. Keeping TJ for as long as possible will help with the progress, but if we are a consistent top mid major team, we will be a nice destination for up and coming coaches.

[jacksfan29]

Re: Breaking Through: What's Needed to win an NCAA game or two?

SDSU is close obviously . . . tied to Ohio State in the round of 64 with 2 minutes left, but just unable to seal the deal. What do the Jacks need to add/do better to get over the hump and win a game or two in the tournament?

Ground rules for this thread: Return of Mike Daum and TJ Otzelberger is assumed as a given.

I'll throw these things out for starters:

Schedule a killer non-conference schedule - - - three, four, five or more guarantee games against traditional basketball powers. Get the non-con RPI/Sagarin/Kenpom jacked up as high as it will go, even at the sacrifice of a home non-conference game or two.


Have Daum work hard on speed & agility, and on overall strength in the off season. He's too big to ever really be "quick" but he can improve.


Give Daum front-line players beside him who can take some of the defensive pressure off and absorb fouls Daum would otherwise pick up on defense.


Have Jenkins avoid the "sophomore slump" somehow.


Replace Tellinghuisen somehow.


Pray that four Summit League teams at least can crack the top 100 RPI/Sagarin/Kenpom, and that nobody is wallowing in the 300's.


I could go on, but . . . discuss!

Schedule a killer non-conference schedule - - - three, four, five or more guarantee games against traditional basketball powers. Get the non-con RPI/Sagarin/Kenpom jacked up as high as it will go, even at the sacrifice of a home non-conference game or two.
This is a big one. At a minimum we have to match this year's non-conference schedule. We need to win against the Wyoming and Colorado type schools. I would really like to see the top mid-majors begin working together to schedule. The Wichita relationship helps, a Belmont or Murray State would be solid. The Buffalo win helped maintain our RPI all year, and was likely the reason we received a 12 instead of a 13. It would be nice to get Creighton on the schedule but I'm not holding my breath.

Have Daum work hard on speed & agility, and on overall strength in the off season. He's too big to ever really be "quick" but he can improve.
This may be the biggest reason I think he will be back. He doesn't have the body for the NBA right now. He is down to 10% body fat, it would seem that this off-season would be a good time for him to work on his strength.

Give Daum front-line players beside him who can take some of the defensive pressure off and absorb fouls Daum would otherwise pick up on defense.
Dillon and/or Detlinger could both help Daum. Dillon especially seems to be more of an athletic banger. A guy who plays bigger then he actually is.

Have Jenkins avoid the "sophomore slump" somehow.
Always dangerous but Daum and Wolter's both avoided it. Jenkin's has no fear. Sometimes that's what it takes to avoid that slump. Plus, if Daum is back, the pressure will not fall on his shoulders to be the man.

Replace Tellinghuisen somehow.
Krueger seems to have some of the same skill set. Detlinger is a big guy who move well. I really think that TJ's four RS freshman will be a big factor next year.

Pray that four Summit League teams at least can crack the top 100 RPI/Sagarin/Kenpom, and that nobody is wallowing in the 300's.
This may be the hardest thing. USD are going to be really good and will be a top 100. SDSU will be top 100, who else steps up? Barring a miracle I don't see NDSU as an option. Denver could be, but Billups will need to upgrade his talent and scheduling. IPFW? If Konchar is back, if not, don't expect much. ORU may be the best bet. They have some very good young talent and they always play a good non-conference schedule.

[goon]

Re: Breaking Through: What's Needed to win an NCAA game or two?

what are the chances of the redshirts and any incoming freshman to make a big impact.

We have the general recipe it takes.

tourney experience, a senior laden team, and a star to lead the way. I feel that's what every mid major that has won a tourney game or two has had. Plus if we can shoot it lights out that's just a lot of a defense to deal with.

PG, both are seniors, and King start and Key off the bench again
SG, DJJ, back as a soph. if he avoids the soph slump, that's huge, usually freshman to soph year can be where guys see the most growth. lets hope that's the case for him. He has star written all over him. Just needs to work on a few areas.
SF. Flatten, Senior comes back after medical hardship was granted I think.
PF, here is the question mark I have. Dillon Maybe?
C, Daum, well not much else to say, senior.

or do we move to a smaller line up. Key, King, DJJ, Flatten and Daum as our starting five and hope the redshirts and incoming freshman can fill a few rolls and spots on the bench. If that's the case we start 4 seniors and 1 soph? I like that experience trying to make a game or two in the NCAA.

[SoDakJack]

Re: Breaking Through: What's Needed to win an NCAA game or two?

or do we move to a smaller line up. Key, King, DJJ, Flatten and Daum as our starting five and hope the redshirts and incoming freshman can fill a few rolls and spots on the bench. If that's the case we start 4 seniors and 1 soph? I like that experience trying to make a game or two in the NCAA.

At this very moment, I like the idea of the smaller line-up as the starting 5 and using the redshirts as the second wave. The only reason is that we haven't seen a lot of them yet, and they would have to be pretty special to push any of the current 5 out of the line-up.

I think that they have to continue to schedule those hard OOC games. It is the only way to have them develop the "never let up" mindset. The team seems to have a tendancy to lose focus/intensity over the course of a game. Obviously they are able to withstand this during the conference season, but against teams like Michigan, Maryland, and Ohio State they are the difference between winning and losing by double figures.

[bigticket1]

Re: Breaking Through: What's Needed to win an NCAA game or two?

what are the chances of the redshirts and any incoming freshman to make a big impact.

We have the general recipe it takes.

tourney experience, a senior laden team, and a star to lead the way. I feel that's what every mid major that has won a tourney game or two has had. Plus if we can shoot it lights out that's just a lot of a defense to deal with.

PG, both are seniors, and King start and Key off the bench again
SG, DJJ, back as a soph. if he avoids the soph slump, that's huge, usually freshman to soph year can be where guys see the most growth. lets hope that's the case for him. He has star written all over him. Just needs to work on a few areas.
SF. Flatten, Senior comes back after medical hardship was granted I think.
PF, here is the question mark I have. Dillon Maybe?
C, Daum, well not much else to say, senior.

or do we move to a smaller line up. Key, King, DJJ, Flatten and Daum as our starting five and hope the redshirts and incoming freshman can fill a few rolls and spots on the bench. If that's the case we start 4 seniors and 1 soph? I like that experience trying to make a game or two in the NCAA.

Of the three incoming freshmen, I think Owen King has the best chance of playing right away at 6'3 and able to play both guard spots. It sounds like Fiegen may need a year to get stronger, and Mimms as a true PG would be behind King and Key. I think Otz may surprise us with someone at the 3/4/5 spot that can play right away (JUCO ?). If Howell is close to graduating, maybe they can work with him to take summer classes and graduate or some other way to free up his scholarship. A year ago, we had never heard of Jenkins, and it wouldn't surprise me if Otz has something similiar cooking now. Especially with the possibility, however small, that Mike might not be back.

[filbert]

Re: Breaking Through: What's Needed to win an NCAA game or two?

Of the three incoming freshmen, I think Owen King has the best chance of playing right away at 6'3 and able to play both guard spots. It sounds like Fiegen may need a year to get stronger, and Mimms as a true PG would be behind King and Key. I think Otz may surprise us with someone at the 3/4/5 spot that can play right away (JUCO ?). If Howell is close to graduating, maybe they can work with him to take summer classes and graduate or some other way to free up his scholarship. A year ago, we had never heard of Jenkins, and it wouldn't surprise me if Otz has something similiar cooking now. Especially with the possibility, however small, that Mike might not be back.

Two Kings on the court at the same time?

Dilly dilly!

[goon]

Re: Breaking Through: What's Needed to win an NCAA game or two?

I just worry after next year. We lose like everyone but DJJ, if we make a run and Otz gets a good offer at another school. He might leave. Hopefully the redshirts and incoming freshman will be ready for a big role early in their careers. With out having Any Sophs on the rost, really makes the classes really unbalanced. If Howell were to leave that would give a chance to get a jr juco or transfer that might help.

[wcbsas]

Re: Breaking Through: What's Needed to win an NCAA game or two?

SDSU is close obviously . . . tied to Ohio State in the round of 64 with 2 minutes left, but just unable to seal the deal. What do the Jacks need to add/do better to get over the hump and win a game or two in the tournament?

Ground rules for this thread: Return of Mike Daum and TJ Otzelberger is assumed as a given.

I'll throw these things out for starters:

Schedule a killer non-conference schedule - - - three, four, five or more guarantee games against traditional basketball powers. Get the non-con RPI/Sagarin/Kenpom jacked up as high as it will go, even at the sacrifice of a home non-conference game or two.

Have Daum work hard on speed & agility, and on overall strength in the off season. He's too big to ever really be "quick" but he can improve.

Give Daum front-line players beside him who can take some of the defensive pressure off and absorb fouls Daum would otherwise pick up on defense.

Have Jenkins avoid the "sophomore slump" somehow.

Replace Tellinghuisen somehow.

Pray that four Summit League teams at least can crack the top 100 RPI/Sagarin/Kenpom, and that nobody is wallowing in the 300's.

I could go on, but . . . discuss!

To answer your question ... to win a game or two in the NCAA next year we need better guard play. Tie game at 2 minutes and 2 defining plays made the difference (1) the 4-point play by OSU and (2) the foul on the 3-point attempt. Both were dumb mistakes by guards doing a below average job defensively.

I believe next year's non-conference schedule will be rather stout ... may not have a lot of name programs coming to Brookings but the non-con will be strong.

Two of the redshirts need to step up ... for my part Dillon and Arians will be those two kids. Arians will help handle the ball and will spread defenses out and Dillon will replace Tellinghuisen from the post perspective, provide rebounding and interior defense.

Key's jumper needs to get a lot better.

[goon]

Re: Breaking Through: What's Needed to win an NCAA game or two?

To answer your question ... to win a game or two in the NCAA next year we need better guard play. Tie game at 2 minutes and 2 defining plays made the difference (1) the 4-point play by OSU and (2) the foul on the 3-point attempt. Both were dumb mistakes by guards doing a below average job defensively.

I believe next year's non-conference schedule will be rather stout ... may not have a lot of name programs coming to Brookings but the non-con will be strong.

Two of the redshirts need to step up ... for my part Dillon and Arians will be those two kids. Arians will help handle the ball and will spread defenses out and Dillon will replace Tellinghuisen from the post perspective, provide rebounding and interior defense.

Key's jumper needs to get a lot better.

I was going to say having a guard who can take over and hit a jumper or drive to the basket would huge. all our guards are good, but, would need a wolters type who can help take over the game. hopefully DJJ figures out how to do that.

[da_coach]

Re: Breaking Through: What's Needed to win an NCAA game or two?

I agree with alot of what has been said here.

I'll add something, that many don't want to hear.

Maybe just a little luck? Remember the game against Maryland... one of their guys went off from 3. Yesterday, Ohio State had 9 in the first half, and they average 6 a game. Yes, part of that was game planning, and it seems like it was a good game plan, but imagine if they don't hit 9 in the first half?

Shoot, they played Baylor tough in the first run to the NCAA's too.

We haven't yet, run into a team that kind of lays an egg in the first round. And that happens. And you can say, well better defense will stop that, and maybe...

However, at HALF last night, Arizona was 2 for 11 from 3. They couldn't hit anything.

The old coaching adage, "When you make shots, you look good, when you don't, you look bad." We haven't ran into anyone, yet, that's had a bad day.

Yesterday, they were tied with under 2 mins left. That's honestly all you can ask for... OSU made a couple plays at that point.

[RochJack69]

Re: Breaking Through: What's Needed to win an NCAA game or two?

It's simple what they need, a true power forward with guard skills, or a really good 5 so Daum can spend more time at his true position.

[filbert]

Re: Breaking Through: What's Needed to win an NCAA game or two?

Luck in the NCAA tournament would be a nice change.

From what I can tell, we have 10 players returning, 3 incoming freshmen, and I assume 1 scholarship (Polk-Hillard) to give (assuming Beau Brown is a walkon non-scholly).

5 seniors, 1 junior, 4 redshirt freshmen, and 3 incoming freshmen (likely redshirts?)

Sr F Mike Daum 6'9" 250
RSF F Alou Dillon 6'8" 225
RS? F Aaron Fiegen 6'7" 190
RSF G/F Matt Dentlinger 6'8" 230
RSF G/F Ryan Krueger 6'6" 200
Sr G Skyler Flatten 6'6" 215
Sr G Tevin King 6'2" 200
Sr G Brandon Key 5'10" 160
Sr G Chris Howell 6'5" 217
Jr G Beau Brown 6'1" 175
RSF G Alex Ariens 6'4" 190
RS? G Owen King 6'3" 195
RS? G Matthew Mims 6'0" 165

So we'd probably add, if anyone (and no unanticipated departures) either a juco junior or sophomore, preferably IMHO aforward/big man since we've got an awful lot of guards on the roster right now.

I agree we could be looking at a drop-off for 2019-20.