Selection Sunday: The Thread

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: Selection Sunday: The Thread

RPI isn't as important as people think. Politics, longevity in tournament, past performance, familiarity with schools is more important. It's SDSU first dance....given more opportunities down the road they will get respect. Montana's been there plenty of times before and it's not Coach Tinkles first dance. That plays more in the seeding than RPI. Besides, Washington is SDSU's biggest victory of the year from a poor BCS Conference. That didn't help matters much.

That's why I provided other statistics besides RPI.And Montana's signature victory is a 2 point home win vs. 12 seed long beach st. I don't care if Coach Rupp himself is coaching the griz, nobody can look at the stats this year and tell me they should be seeded higher than us - especially since we both play at the same site on the same day (taking all seed bumps/drops due to location/region out of the picture).

[HoboJack]

Re: Selection Sunday: The Thread

I didn't have a huge problem with the 14 seed until they put ORU as one of the last 6 teams out, and then from all reports they were either the last team out, or there was going to be a vote between them and Drexel for the last team in if St. Bonnies loses like they should have.

Where are you seeing this report? I don't think the graphic showed on the CBS Selection Show was anything official in term of a list - just a list of potential bubble teams that had been discussed over the week.

[Cadsev]

Re: Selection Sunday: The Thread

That's why I provided other statistics besides RPI.And Montana's signature victory is a 2 point home win vs. 12 seed long beach st. I don't care if Coach Rupp himself is coaching the griz, nobody can look at the stats this year and tell me they should be seeded higher than us - especially since we both play at the same site on the same day (taking all seed bumps/drops due to location/region out of the picture).

NCAA Politics....again SDSU is new kid on the block....be happy for the opportunity. Have to beat great teams to advance so doesn't matter....going to be a difficult proposition no matter who SDSU plays.

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: Selection Sunday: The Thread

NCAA Politics....again SDSU is new kid on the block....be happy for the opportunity. Have to beat great teams to advance so doesn't matter....going to be a difficult proposition no matter who SDSU plays.

I get it cadsev, I just think its bush. Don't come out and say on national tv that you are working for days to protect they sanctity of those lower seeds for the teams they mean so much for, and then actually do just the opposite because of politics. Plus, maybe it's wrong, but a matchup with Wisconsin looks much much better to me than one with Baylor.

[joeboo22]

Re: Selection Sunday: The Thread

Where are you seeing this report? I don't think the graphic showed on the CBS Selection Show was anything official in term of a list - just a list of potential bubble teams that had been discussed over the week.

it was on twitter. there were 6 teams out that were on the bubble, of them was ORU. But from other people reporting they made it sound like if St. Bonnies would have lost (like they should have) ORU and Drexel were the two they would have chosen between. But like I've previously stated I don't buy what the selection committee says to the public, if they really wanted the public to know they would televise the selection committee meetings.

[goon]

Re: Selection Sunday: The Thread

I get it cadsev, I just think its bush. Don't come out and say on national tv that you are working for days to protect they sanctity of those lower seeds for the teams they mean so much for, and then actually do just the opposite because of politics. Plus, maybe it's wrong, but a matchup with Wisconsin looks much much better to me than one with Baylor.

Frankly the faster the game play the better imo for sdsu. Wisc wants to slow it down. We struggles with teams that want to slow it down. We perform better with teams that want to race to score. They are 10-7 I think to end the year. Every tem is beatable any given night. We just need to play our game make 3s and limit rebounding keep it close.

[joeboo22]

Re: Selection Sunday: The Thread

Its money, but I still don't get how Montana was a 13th seed and a SDSU was a 14th seed. I heard one explanation but it involved Colorado winning and St. Bonnie's winning and because of that, ORU was pushed out, and if ORU would have been in they would have been in the play in game and then SDSU would have been seeded higher, and Colorado couldn't play in the play in game, so they went lower. Is it possible? IDK

I still don't get where the conference tourney champ and 2nd place regular season, who was the only team to beat ORU during the regular season, gets a 14th seed if ORU was honestly the 69th/70th. That is just where my math doesn't ad up.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Selection Sunday: The Thread

SDSU managed to not play even ONE GAME against ANY TEAM in the NCAA Tourney. How do you assess the Jacks if only reference is the RPI and the SOS?

[NebraskaJack]

Re: Selection Sunday: The Thread

Its money, but I still don't get how Montana was a 13th seed and a SDSU was a 14th seed. I heard one explanation but it involved Colorado winning and St. Bonnie's winning and because of that, ORU was pushed out, and if ORU would have been in they would have been in the play in game and then SDSU would have been seeded higher, and Colorado couldn't play in the play in game, so they went lower. Is it possible? IDK

I still don't get where the conference tourney champ and 2nd place regular season, who was the only team to beat ORU during the regular season, gets a 14th seed if ORU was honestly the 69th/70th. That is just where my math doesn't ad up.

In my opinion we were lucky to get a 14th seed......if you are on the selection committee here is what you see.


a) Not a single opponent made the tournament.

b) We only played 2 schools that won their conference.
Washington ...... we had our best shooting night of the season. We were above our season average for fg%, 3 pt fg% and free throws. It could be easily dismissed as a fluke. Washington won a historically bad PAC 10 and choked in the first round of the conference tournament.
Oral Roberts......won a very weak Summit League. We beat them at home, but they beat us by 22 on the road. Again, not much to hang our hats on.

c) Not a single top 50 win.

d)Here's our games of note......

Nebraska - We lost by 12, they finished tied for last in the Big 10.
Minnesota - We lost by 16, they finished 9th in the Big 10.
Georgia - We lost by 11, they finished 10th in the SEC.

e) Our SOS was 180th.

f) 2 of our wins weren't even D1 opponents.

g) We were 15-2 against RPI +200 opponents. That's right 17 games.....and we lost 2 of them.......... including one by 19.

h) We won our conference tournament by beating RPI's 210, 231 and 151.....and we needed OT to beat the last one. Not exactly stuff legends are made of.

I love the Jacks and I think we have a great team, but if you think you are going to convince anyone else otherwise your crazy. We deserve the seed we got and maybe lower. Give Baylor a good game, make it back next year and we might have a case, but this year we are who we are.

[RabbitNation]

Re: Selection Sunday: The Thread

In my opinion we were lucky to get a 14th seed......if you are on the selection committee here is what you see.


a) Not a single opponent made the tournament.

b) We only played 2 schools that won their conference.
Washington ...... we had our best shooting night of the season. We were above our season average for fg%, 3 pt fg% and free throws. It could be easily dismissed as a fluke. Washington won a historically bad PAC 10 and choked in the first round of the conference tournament.
Oral Roberts......won a very weak Summit League. We beat them at home, but they beat us by 22 on the road. Again, not much to hang our hats on.

c) Not a single top 50 win.

d)Here's our games of note......

Nebraska - We lost by 12, they finished tied for last in the Big 10.
Minnesota - We lost by 16, they finished 9th in the Big 10.
Georgia - We lost by 11, they finished 10th in the SEC.

e) Our SOS was 180th.

f) 2 of our wins weren't even D1 opponents.

g) We were 15-2 against RPI +200 opponents. That's right 17 games.....and we lost 2 of them.......... including one by 19.

h) We won our conference tournament by beating RPI's 210, 231 and 151.....and we needed OT to beat the last one. Not exactly stuff legends are made of.

I love the Jacks and I think we have a great team, but if you think you are going to convince anyone else otherwise your crazy. We deserve the seed we got and maybe lower. Give Baylor a good game, make it back next year and we might have a case, but this year we are who we are.

GAME SET Match


Great post that should end this thread! Rep points coming

[zooropa]

Re: Selection Sunday: The Thread

GAME SET Match

Not quite.

"SOS" is based on RPI. "Top 50 wins" are based on RPI. "Top 100 wins" are based on RPI.

Point being:

If the NCAA doesn't like RPI, they should d*mn well stop using it, PERIOD.

Either it's valid, therefore SDSU's #43 rating is valid, or it isn't in which case, SOS & "Top 50 wins" are also invalid.

[witness]

Re: Selection Sunday: The Thread

In my opinion we were lucky to get a 14th seed......if you are on the selection committee here is what you see.


a) Not a single opponent made the tournament.

b) We only played 2 schools that won their conference.
Washington ...... we had our best shooting night of the season. We were above our season average for fg%, 3 pt fg% and free throws. It could be easily dismissed as a fluke. Washington won a historically bad PAC 10 and choked in the first round of the conference tournament.
Oral Roberts......won a very weak Summit League. We beat them at home, but they beat us by 22 on the road. Again, not much to hang our hats on.

c) Not a single top 50 win.

d)Here's our games of note......

Nebraska - We lost by 12, they finished tied for last in the Big 10.
Minnesota - We lost by 16, they finished 9th in the Big 10.
Georgia - We lost by 11, they finished 10th in the SEC.

e) Our SOS was 180th.

f) 2 of our wins weren't even D1 opponents.

g) We were 15-2 against RPI +200 opponents. That's right 17 games.....and we lost 2 of them.......... including one by 19.

h) We won our conference tournament by beating RPI's 210, 231 and 151.....and we needed OT to beat the last one. Not exactly stuff legends are made of.

I love the Jacks and I think we have a great team, but if you think you are going to convince anyone else otherwise your crazy. We deserve the seed we got and maybe lower. Give Baylor a good game, make it back next year and we might have a case, but this year we are who we are.

When we played Minnesota, they had Trevor Mbakwe still and once they lost him their whole season was lost. If Mbakwe didn't get hurt, they would have been in the NCAA tourney no doubt about it. As far as Nebraska, they did beat Indiana and B1G was one of the toughest conferences in the country and yes Nebraska did struggle but that game was after the CBE Classic towards the end of a long road trip and Nagy himself said he shouldn't have scheduled that game. The Jacks also didn't really hit their stride until after the UND loss(outside of the ORU loss) where they really picked up their game and than after the Jacks lost to USD a game that USD played out of their minds and was basically their Summit League Championship game, SDSU has won every game by double digits except the Summit Championship game where they won in OT. RPI doesn't count non-D1 games so it wouldn't matter either way. And to think we deserved a lower seed is laughable. The average bracket projection was 13.6, and SDSU was the 2nd 14th seed. Take out the losses to USD and/or UND and they are pretty much a lock to a 13 seed. Jacks were/are a young team that didn't play up to their ability but they learned from those losses and seemed to have played better since those losses.

[NebraskaJack]

Re: Selection Sunday: The Thread

Not quite.

"SOS" is based on RPI. "Top 50 wins" are based on RPI. "Top 100 wins" are based on RPI.

Point being:

If the NCAA doesn't like RPI, they should d*mn well stop using it, PERIOD.

Either it's valid, therefore SDSU's #43 rating is valid, or it isn't in which case, SOS & "Top 50 wins" are also invalid.

I hate debating in this thread because I'm a huge SDSU fan and it's unnatural to make a case against them.....but I'll take the bait.

The largest determining factor of RPI is wins.......and we racked up a bunch of them against sub 200 RPI opponents. No way around that fact. A team with 25 D1 wins isn't going to have a bad RPI regardless of SOS because they won a ton of games. That is why RPI is one of many factors in seeding and not the sole determining factor that we wanted it to be.

Also, we took a nice little leap in RPI during the last week strictly because when it came to conference tournament time, all but 31 teams were going to end with a loss and half of the teams were going to lose their first game.....definite advatange to the teams that put up a 3 game win streak. It wasn't because we quickly got better than 15 or so teams in the last 7 days.

[NebraskaJack]

Re: Selection Sunday: The Thread

When we played Minnesota, they had Trevor Mbakwe still and once they lost him their whole season was lost. If Mbakwe didn't get hurt, they would have been in the NCAA tourney no doubt about it. As far as Nebraska, they did beat Indiana and B1G was one of the toughest conferences in the country and yes Nebraska did struggle but that game was after the CBE Classic towards the end of a long road trip and Nagy himself said he shouldn't have scheduled that game. The Jacks also didn't really hit their stride until after the UND loss(outside of the ORU loss) where they really picked up their game and than after the Jacks lost to USD a game that USD played out of their minds and was basically their Summit League Championship game, SDSU has won every game by double digits except the Summit Championship game where they won in OT. RPI doesn't count non-D1 games so it wouldn't matter either way. And to think we deserved a lower seed is laughable. The average bracket projection was 13.6, and SDSU was the 2nd 14th seed. Take out the losses to USD and/or UND and they are pretty much a lock to a 13 seed. Jacks were/are a young team that didn't play up to their ability but they learned from those losses and seemed to have played better since those losses.

Totally agree with everything you typed.....one question though.....would you have felt comfortable sitting in front of the selection committee and make that exact same argument as to why we should have been a higher seed?

[zooropa]

Re: Selection Sunday: The Thread

The largest determining factor of RPI is wins

Yes. Yours: 25%. Your opponents': 50%. Your opponents' opponents': 25%. With a factor for home/road.

SDSU had control of exactly 25% of their RPI.

RPI is a silly metric and using any RPI derived metric is, as they say on the TV legal dramas, "fruit of the poison tree."