Sporting News picks Jacks #3 in the Summit

[2002jack]

Re: Sporting News picks Jacks #3 in the Summit

I don't see USD finishing way back in 9th. Dave Boots is a good coach and they have a solid roster. I would expect them to win their fair share of games in the Dome. I think 5th or 6th is more appropriate.

[HoboJack]

Re: Sporting News picks Jacks #3 in the Summit

I'm not trying to be negative Nancy, and I know we have some great talent (specifically Wolters and Dykstra) coming back. I just cringed a little when I heard that we didn't lose anything "essential" from last years team. Moss will be a big loss, but as I look at the team I don't think we have anyone right now that can provide what Clint did either - an extrememly accurate outside jump shooter. Clint opened a lot of things up for Nate and Jordan because teams respected his scoring ability. There is a reason that you heard both Sutton and Kampe say in the past two years, that the player they wanted to contain in order to win was Clint and not necessarily Nate (of course, maybe it was because they couldn't stop Nate) or somebody else.

Part of my reasoning for not being as concerned is that we return 5 of 6 of our top 3 3pt range shooters (Moss was 7th at .355). Clint was our 5th best 3pt shooter by percentage (he had almost double the number of attempts of anyone else on the team), and led Carlson by just .001%. I love what he provided us for the last 4 years, but think we have players to replace him, expecially on the offensive end.

Moss is an enigma for me because he had the abiltiy to do so many athletic things that nobody else on our team can provide. He led the team by a wide-margin in Highlight type plays, but also was a player without a true position. He made the basketball games more fun to watch due to never knowing when the next highlight was going to come, but I can't think of many games we won/lost due soley to his play in a game. He'll be missed more for his leadership & competitveness than his stats in my opinion.

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: Sporting News picks Jacks #3 in the Summit

Part of my reasoning for not being as concerned is that we return 5 of 6 of our top 3 3pt range shooters (Moss was 7th at .355). Clint was our 5th best 3pt shooter by percentage (he had almost double the number of attempts of anyone else on the team), and led Carlson by just .001%. I love what he provided us for the last 4 years, but think we have players to replace him, expecially on the offensive end.

Moss is an enigma for me because he had the abiltiy to do so many athletic things that nobody else on our team can provide. He led the team by a wide-margin in Highlight type plays, but also was a player without a true position. He made the basketball games more fun to watch due to never knowing when the next highlight was going to come, but I can't think of many games we won/lost due soley to his play in a game. He'll be missed more for his leadership & competitveness than his stats in my opinion.

I agree with you in regards to Moss - we'll miss his competitiveness, leadership, and swagger more than maybe his pure basketball ability. Those attributes aren't easy to replace though either.

I know that we have shooters on the team, but I'm not sure any of them can get their shots the same way Clint did...if that makes sense.

Who from last year is quick enough/athletic enough to run through/off screens to get their shot? I don't think Chad or Griff are the right folks for this.
Who can drive off a screen at the top and hit that little jumper right inside the three point line like Clint did so well? Maybe Carlson...maybe we just haven't seen the others do this.
Who has a shot that is as quick to get off as Clint's behind the arc? Griff is deadly, but his release is slower. Chad is streaky shooter but also seems like more of a set shooter. I don't think Jordan or Nate fill this role. Maybe this guy is out there and we just haven't seen it.

We have shooters and we'll be a good shooting team...I'm just not sure they'll replace the good things Clint did on the offensive end. Like I said, I wouldn't say we should be worried about it, but when somebody says that we didn't lose any essential pieces, it made me raise my brows.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: Sporting News picks Jacks #3 in the Summit

I can't think of a prettier or quicker release than Clint's so I can buy what you are saying. The last thing this team has to worry about is scoring points. Clint was an average defender at best. Defense is where the team has to make a big jump. Dale was a decent defender too but there were many times he would get out of position and sometimes he could recover for a spectacular block, other times the result would be an easy basket.

Don't get me wrong, we will miss those guys a lot but of the team comes together on the defensive side then we are going to be a much better basketball team.

SUPERBUNNY

[HoboJack]

Re: Sporting News picks Jacks #3 in the Summit

We have shooters and we'll be a good shooting team...I'm just not sure they'll replace the good things Clint did on the offensive end. Like I said, I wouldn't say we should be worried about it, but when somebody says that we didn't lose any essential pieces, it made me raise my brows.

I agree that despite the percentage numbers, Clint may have been our biggest threat. However that deadly quick release was developed over a 4 year career, and got better over time (at least by the eye test). Clint was not known as a particularly good shooter coming out of HS. Garret Callhan's shot also got better/quicker in his 4 years. I guess I trust this coaching staff to develop those shooters, and suspect that at least one of Carlson, White, Griff will surprise people with how much better they are. Also, from what I have seen/heard, Z. Monaghan may be the most developed pure shooter we have brought in out of HS since the transition started. Hardly anyone has spoken on here about what his impact might be.

The potential for some drop-off is there, but I don't see anything to get overly concerned about. We lost some great players, but I don't think the drop-off to their replacements made them essential pieces.

[NebraskaJack]

Re: Sporting News picks Jacks #3 in the Summit

I know that losing Sargent and Moss will hurt a little. I think what encourages me is that many people feel players make thier greatest step from their Freshman to Sophmore years....for us that means Dykstra, Carlson, White and Heemstra. If this group takes the same step that Wolters did last year then we should be in good shape.

[jack power]

Re: Sporting News picks Jacks #3 in the Summit

I agree that despite the percentage numbers, Clint may have been our biggest threat. However that deadly quick release was developed over a 4 year career, and got better over time (at least by the eye test). Clint was not known as a particularly good shooter coming out of HS. Garret Callhan's shot also got better/quicker in his 4 years. I guess I trust this coaching staff to develop those shooters, and suspect that at least one of Carlson, White, Griff will surprise people with how much better they are. Also, from what I have seen/heard, Z. Monaghan may be the most developed pure shooter we have brought in out of HS since the transition started. Hardly anyone has spoken on here about what his impact might be.

The potential for some drop-off is there, but I don't see anything to get overly concerned about. We lost some great players, but I don't think the drop-off to their replacements made them essential pieces.

Clint certainly was a good shooter out of high school,that's what he was recruited as. As far as developing over a four year period,he mainly played point guard as a freshman and sophomore because we didn't have anybody else. He was a threat,a threat that other teams focused on. He offset that by developing great elevation and a very quick release as a junior and senior.

Players come and go but he was a 4 year starter and a two time all-conference player. I think the drop off will be more than you think.

[jack power]

Re: Sporting News picks Jacks #3 in the Summit

I can't think of a prettier or quicker release than Clint's so I can buy what you are saying. The last thing this team has to worry about is scoring points. Clint was an average defender at best. Defense is where the team has to make a big jump. Dale was a decent defender too but there were many times he would get out of position and sometimes he could recover for a spectacular block, other times the result would be an easy basket.

Don't get me wrong, we will miss those guys a lot but of the team comes together on the defensive side then we are going to be a much better basketball team.

SUPERBUNNY

There was many times when ALL our guards were out of position. That was usually a direct result of them sagging off their men to help poor post play. Dale was our best defensive player. Saying the team needs to come together sounds good,but until we get better front line defense it won't happen.

[filbert]

Re: Sporting News picks Jacks #3 in the Summit

Keith Benson wasn't KEITH BENSON yet when he came to Oakland. He red-shirted his first collegiate year, didn't start all of his games his first active year, and He was a gangly kid who averaged only six points a game in high school, who the big colleges didn't want, and had to grow into being a force inside.

- - - - - - - Benson Dykstra
Games- - - - - 29 31
Games Started- 20 17
Avg. Minutes - 13.4 20.7
FG-FGA - - - - 54-107 125-223
FG Pct - - - - .505 .561
3pt FG-FGA - - 0-0 34=66
3pt FG Pct - - .000 .515
Reb - - - - - 102 158
Reb per game - 3.5 5.1
Points - - - - 152 351
Points per game 5.2 11.3

Oakland went 17-14 that year, 2007-08. Derick Nelson (Jr) was the leading scorer on that team (17.3) and Johnathan Jones (So) was second at 14.9. Erik Kangas (Jr) was third at 14.6. Nobody else on the Grizzlies that year was in double figures. The seniors on that team were G Brandon Cassise (9.7 ppg) and F Patrick McCloskey (1.9 ppg).

SDSU went 19-12 last year, Wolters (So.) lead scorers with 19.5; Sargent (Sr.) second at 15.2, Dykstra was third.

Dykstra is a strong all-conference prospect at forward. Wolters is THE consensus all-conference point guard. An rising star inside/outside player, and a point guard that most college basketball observers say could start on almost any Division I team in the country.

[91jack]

Re: Sporting News picks Jacks #3 in the Summit

There was many times when ALL our guards were out of position. That was usually a direct result of them sagging off their men to help poor post play. Dale was our best defensive player. Saying the team needs to come together sounds good,but until we get better front line defense it won't happen.

I'm wondering when we've had a better front line? This year we have Griffan, Dykstra, Feigen and Heemstra. Griffan isn't as tall but he uses his body to make up for some of that. The 3 other guys aren't 6'11 or 260 lbs but they are better than what we've had since the DII days. They have all been in the system for at least a year so they should be stronger and have more experience. Who have we lost in the last few years?
1) Sargent, Moss and Tivis.
2) Garrett, Kai, Engen, Palarca and AC. Engen played good his senior year but AC was battling injuries so he was out part of the year and playing hurt through most of it. Kai could help out at the PF but that's not what we have now.
3) Cassaday, Casey and Wipf.
4) Beran, Loney, Berte, Bassett and DeBoer. This has a lot of big guys. Loney used his body a lot like Griffan but Griffan can shoot better and is more athletic. Would you take Beran over Dykstra? How about Berte over Feigen? OR Bassett and DeBoer over Heemstra? This has me wondering because all the players on the team now are so young. I liked Beran, Loney and Berte so hopefully you don't think I'm picking on them. Berte was the most athletic out of all those players.
5) Cadwell, Fries, Kleinjan and Hornby. I think I remember Kleinjan playing PF this year because of the lack of bigs and foul trouble.
6) Holdern, Gilbert, Heien and the football players (Wagner, Steffen, Campbell, Fox and Keller).
7) Green, Geiver, Hokenson, DeJong and DeWaard.

I hope nobody thinks I'm picking on some of the players from the past. I've enjoyed watching them all play and I appreciate the players who led SDSU through it's transition. My point in this is that we probably have the best set of bigs we've had in years. Would we want more, of course. But, things are better than they have been.

This year, we lost Sargent and Moss. The year before that we lost Kai and Garrett. The years before that we lost Beran, Cadwell, Holdren, etc... We lose some good players every year. We just have to realize that we are getting other good players to replace them.

I've heard talk about going with 4 wing players and 1 post. If that is what we do, we won't need as many post players. I still think it would be nice to get a big but I guess I just am a optimist.

[RowdyRabbit]

Re: Sporting News picks Jacks #3 in the Summit

I'm wondering when we've had a better front line? This year we have Griffan, Dykstra, Feigen and Heemstra. Griffan isn't as tall but he uses his body to make up for some of that. The 3 other guys aren't 6'11 or 260 lbs but they are better than what we've had since the DII days. They have all been in the system for at least a year so they should be stronger and have more experience. Who have we lost in the last few years?
1) Sargent, Moss and Tivis.
2) Garrett, Kai, Engen, Palarca and AC. Engen played good his senior year but AC was battling injuries so he was out part of the year and playing hurt through most of it. Kai could help out at the PF but that's not what we have now.
3) Cassaday, Casey and Wipf.
4) Beran, Loney, Berte, Bassett and DeBoer. This has a lot of big guys. Loney used his body a lot like Griffan but Griffan can shoot better and is more athletic. Would you take Beran over Dykstra? How about Berte over Feigen? OR Bassett and DeBoer over Heemstra? This has me wondering because all the players on the team now are so young. I liked Beran, Loney and Berte so hopefully you don't think I'm picking on them. Berte was the most athletic out of all those players.
5) Cadwell, Fries, Kleinjan and Hornby. I think I remember Kleinjan playing PF this year because of the lack of bigs and foul trouble.
6) Holdern, Gilbert, Heien and the football players (Wagner, Steffen, Campbell, Fox and Keller).
7) Green, Geiver, Hokenson, DeJong and DeWaard.

I hope nobody thinks I'm picking on some of the players from the past. I've enjoyed watching them all play and I appreciate the players who led SDSU through it's transition. My point in this is that we probably have the best set of bigs we've had in years. Would we want more, of course. But, things are better than they have been.

This year, we lost Sargent and Moss. The year before that we lost Kai and Garrett. The years before that we lost Beran, Cadwell, Holdren, etc... We lose some good players every year. We just have to realize that we are getting other good players to replace them.

I've heard talk about going with 4 wing players and 1 post. If that is what we do, we won't need as many post players. I still think it would be nice to get a big but I guess I just am a optimist.

Well done.

And agreed.

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: Sporting News picks Jacks #3 in the Summit

I'm wondering when we've had a better front line? This year we have Griffan, Dykstra, Feigen and Heemstra. Griffan isn't as tall but he uses his body to make up for some of that. The 3 other guys aren't 6'11 or 260 lbs but they are better than what we've had since the DII days. They have all been in the system for at least a year so they should be stronger and have more experience. Who have we lost in the last few years?
1) Sargent, Moss and Tivis.
2) Garrett, Kai, Engen, Palarca and AC. Engen played good his senior year but AC was battling injuries so he was out part of the year and playing hurt through most of it. Kai could help out at the PF but that's not what we have now.
3) Cassaday, Casey and Wipf.
4) Beran, Loney, Berte, Bassett and DeBoer. This has a lot of big guys. Loney used his body a lot like Griffan but Griffan can shoot better and is more athletic. Would you take Beran over Dykstra? How about Berte over Feigen? OR Bassett and DeBoer over Heemstra? This has me wondering because all the players on the team now are so young. I liked Beran, Loney and Berte so hopefully you don't think I'm picking on them. Berte was the most athletic out of all those players.
5) Cadwell, Fries, Kleinjan and Hornby. I think I remember Kleinjan playing PF this year because of the lack of bigs and foul trouble.
6) Holdern, Gilbert, Heien and the football players (Wagner, Steffen, Campbell, Fox and Keller).
7) Green, Geiver, Hokenson, DeJong and DeWaard.

I hope nobody thinks I'm picking on some of the players from the past. I've enjoyed watching them all play and I appreciate the players who led SDSU through it's transition. My point in this is that we probably have the best set of bigs we've had in years. Would we want more, of course. But, things are better than they have been.

This year, we lost Sargent and Moss. The year before that we lost Kai and Garrett. The years before that we lost Beran, Cadwell, Holdren, etc... We lose some good players every year. We just have to realize that we are getting other good players to replace them.

I've heard talk about going with 4 wing players and 1 post. If that is what we do, we won't need as many post players. I still think it would be nice to get a big but I guess I just am a optimist.

Good post!

[NebraskaJack]

Re: Sporting News picks Jacks #3 in the Summit

Clint certainly was a good shooter out of high school,that's what he was recruited as. As far as developing over a four year period,he mainly played point guard as a freshman and sophomore because we didn't have anybody else. He was a threat,a threat that other teams focused on. He offset that by developing great elevation and a very quick release as a junior and senior.

Players come and go but he was a 4 year starter and a two time all-conference player. I think the drop off will be more than you think.

Clint was a 4 yr starter and 2 time all conference, so there will be a drop off......but I think the bigger point is that players do come and go. I just want to throw out some quick stats, while they aren't apples to apples based off who they had around them I think you'll see my point.


Clints 4 yrs

8.4 pts....... .357% .......... .320 3pt .....81 assists
14.1 pts..... . 421% .......... .380 3pt......58 assists
12.8 pts..... .406% ............ .415 3pt......33 assists
15.2 pts..... .410% ............ .390 3pt......40 assists


Now for comparision here is Chad White's freshman year...

8.1 pts...... .494% ............ .422 3pt.....50 assists


My point is, players need to step up, I think Chad is more than positioned to step into Clint's role. The question is, is a Brayden Carlson (or insert name here) poised to step into Chad White's role from last year?

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Sporting News picks Jacks #3 in the Summit

I believe Brayden Carlson is going to surprise a lot of you. Understand, when I say that, that I believe the Jacks as a team will be much better than last year -- across the board. Will we miss Clint and Dale...absolutely. But improvement by a large number of players on this team, and the addition of some talented freshmen, will more than make up for our loss IMO.

[2002jack]

Re: Sporting News picks Jacks #3 in the Summit

I believe Brayden Carlson is going to surprise a lot of you. Understand, when I say that, that I believe the Jacks as a team will be much better than last year -- across the board. Will we miss Clint and Dale...absolutely. But improvement by a large number of players on this team, and the addition of some talented freshmen, will more than make up for our loss IMO.

I agree, I feel like Brayden is going to have a break out year.