Beating Dead Horses

[RowdyRabbit]

Re: Beating Dead Horses

[QUOTE=SF_Rabbit_Fan;126127]

So in 05 they were turning people away at the door in SF??

In athletics, as with many things in life, the questions isn't "how big is it," the questions is "is it big enough."

In the case of SDSU football at Howard Wood, the answer is yes, it is big enough (at least for now and with the addition of some temp bleachers).

This goes out to several posters: you can't make the argument that no one shows up for games in Sioux Falls AND the argument that Sioux Falls doesn't have a big enough stadium.

I'll admit, siting attendance is a poor argument, but I stand by my comment that HWF is still a TERRIBLE place to watch a football game, and I hope and pray the Jackrabbits never play there again.

[LakeJack]

Re: Beating Dead Horses

Then play games with USD at Howard Wood Field... SDSU should be able to make more with an annual game with USD in Sioux Falls than it would with a home game every other year.

Taking USD out of the equation, I look at playing in Sioux Falls as more of a long term investment than a source of immediate revenue (I'm not saying we don't need immediate revenue). You don't see a lot up front, but down the road it will pay off big.

I guess you missed the second part



Ya you can. They didn't show up, and if they had where would you put them? Show me the $$$$$, SDSU needs to make more then it would if it played at home to even think about this.

As far as making more $$$$$ playing USD in Sioux Falls, lets do the math. Half of the gate every year (5000) vs all of the gate (16,000) every other year. Not sure I see how you get there.

You started this thread by using examples where other schools take games on the road for more $$$$$ and national TV exposure, but you want SDSU to make an investment - nice word for lose $$$$$ - and no national TV.

I like Sioux Falls and I like you, after all you are a Jacks fan, but I still see no reason to move any games.

[thumper_76]

Re: Beating Dead Horses

add to all that that if we want to get these people who cant drive 45 min to see a game do you think an half full howard wood is going to intice them to drive it after? Personally I dont see that happening, I think people bringin friends up to see a packed house on Hobo Days of for a Dakota Marker game is more likely to show people what SDSU football has become and convince them to come out more and support the Jacks. I think thats a better plan than paying to play in souix falls in front of a lackluster crowd. thats just me

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Beating Dead Horses

I guess you missed the second part

As far as making more $$$$$ playing USD in Sioux Falls, lets do the math. Half of the gate every year (5000) vs all of the gate (16,000) every other year. Not sure I see how you get there.

I think HWF could be expanded pretty easily to hold at least 12,000--maybe even more. Assuming that's true, that's 6000 every year, or 12000 every two years.

Charge $20 for admission (unless you have season tickets).

@ HWF $20x12000=$240000 in ticket sales
@ CAS $15x16000=$240000 in ticket sales

Or minus season ticket sales:

@HWF $20x8000=160000
@CAS $15x12000=180000

So SDSU would lose 20K by having the game in SF. In order to be cash neutral, SDSU would have to sell 133 season tickets.

And a game at HWF would potentially entice future fans/ticket sales/season ticket sales, much like the Summit Tourney will do for basketball (and that was played in the Arena, hardly comparable to Frost).

So it would be income neutral with a long term gain, hence long term investment.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Beating Dead Horses

I'll admit, siting attendance is a poor argument, but I stand by my comment that HWF is still a TERRIBLE place to watch a football game, and I hope and pray the Jackrabbits never play there again.

I agree HWF is awful compared to CAS.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Beating Dead Horses

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I was one of the 3,276 who was at Coughlin on 11-8-08 against Ill State and let me tell you there was no band, no tailgating,no people and no atmosphere. I know the weather was not good, but it was embarrasing and I felt bad for the players and coaches. If SDSU/Brookings or any community in the state can figure how to avoid that happening again than let them host a game as their are a lot of venues who can host less than 4,000. It's relatively easy to pack the stadium for the Hobo Day games and Dakota Markers. Let's not be naive enough to think that kind of atmosphere/attendence exists for for every home game. At the end of the day we still have a growing yet small group of avid fans who will show up regardless of opponent or weather. IMHO until we get to that point where we have 9,000 season tickets sold (NDSU) and are selling out CAS on a regular basis than I think we should consider all options including a game in Sioux Falls.

[Jacked_Up]

Re: Beating Dead Horses

I agree, JGII. With only 2,000 season ticket holders, the football program is not yet in a position to be content and resist reaching beyond its comfort zone to recruit fans. The program is moving the right direction and has a good and improving product to sell, but there's a lot of competition out there.

[JackJD]

Re: Beating Dead Horses

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I was one of the 3,276 who was at Coughlin on 11-8-08 against Ill State and let me tell you there was no band, no tailgating,no people and no atmosphere. I know the weather was not good, but it was embarrasing and I felt bad for the players and coaches. If SDSU/Brookings or any community in the state can figure how to avoid that happening again than let them host a game as their are a lot of venues who can host less than 4,000. It's relatively easy to pack the stadium for the Hobo Day games and Dakota Markers. Let's not be naive enough to think that kind of atmosphere/attendence exists for for every home game. At the end of the day we still have a growing yet small group of avid fans who will show up regardless of opponent or weather. IMHO until we get to that point where we have 9,000 season tickets sold (NDSU) and are selling out CAS on a regular basis than I think we should consider all options including a game in Sioux Falls.

I, too, was at the Illinois State game. If a game had been held in Sioux Falls, I may not have been willing to drive the extra miles to watch a game at Howard Wood.

[Nidaros]

Re: Beating Dead Horses

Are we there yet?

Seriously though lots of civil and good arguements made both ways. No one can argue that SF is not important. It has always been important even in the days of D2. I think though that what ever the admin decides will be what we do. Its going to take some very strong lobbying to change minds so might as well grab an oar and start rowing.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Beating Dead Horses

I hate to beat a dead horse

Not sure why people hate beating dead horses.

1. They are dead and can't feel anything.
2. Why only horses?
3. Isn't it tenderization?



Sorry, saw this a long time ago and every time the there is a new post I can't help but think of it.

[RowdyRabbit]

Re: Beating Dead Horses

I, too, was at the Illinois State game. If a game had been held in Sioux Falls, I may not have been willing to drive the extra miles to watch a game at Howard Wood.

I also made that game and thought it was a blast! Cold, but a blast. (Hot chocolate never tasted so good.)

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Beating Dead Horses

I think HWF could be expanded pretty easily to hold at least 12,000--maybe even more. Assuming that's true, that's 6000 every year, or 12000 every two years.

Charge $20 for admission (unless you have season tickets).

@ HWF $20x12000=$240000 in ticket sales
@ CAS $15x16000=$240000 in ticket sales

Or minus season ticket sales:

@HWF $20x8000=160000
@CAS $15x12000=180000

So SDSU would lose 20K by having the game in SF. In order to be cash neutral, SDSU would have to sell 133 season tickets.

And a game at HWF would potentially entice future fans/ticket sales/season ticket sales, much like the Summit Tourney will do for basketball (and that was played in the Arena, hardly comparable to Frost).

So it would be income neutral with a long term gain, hence long term investment.

It isn't compariable to use Arena vs Frost. The Summit League must have the tourney games at a "Neutral" site. That's why, IF Fargo were to pursue, then games for the Tourney would have to be played at the FargoDome.

Schools, especially small FBS schools will play a "home game" at a neutral site to boost their attendence numbers. If so, then it's likely to be close to a sizable # of the opponent's fans. An example is if Mid TN St played Tenn, and they play in Nashville. All of a sudden MTSU has 55-60K fans, rather than 18K., and they're out of trouble with rolling average issues.

[Cowbell]

Re: Beating Dead Horses

Winning puts butts in the seats. Yes, SDSU won the Great West two years ago but we hadn't won a conference championship in over 40 years. There was a lot of average and sub-average football played for a long time. Watching college football games, SDSU style, was not a priority.

One more thing about Sioux Falls. A lot of college educated people live there. They graduated from places like SDSU, USD, Augie, USF, Iowa, Iowa State, Nebraska ... and the list goes on and on. If I was a graduate of another college I would not be interested in being a season ticket holder at SDSU, much less interested in attending one of our games. However, if SDSU became a dominant power in football I would take in a few games.

Sioux Falls is not the answer to getting people to come to our football games. Winning is the answer to getting people to come to our football games.

[jackmd]

Re: Beating Dead Horses

Winning puts butts in the seats.

Sioux Falls is not the answer to getting people to come to our football games. Winning is the answer to getting people to come to our football games.

And basketball games and volleyball games and........in other words I agree with you wholeheartedly. I attended the game at Howard Wood, crowd was poor, atmosphere was okay at best. I would have preferred to be at CAS. Ill. State game was damn cold last year but we tailgated and attended the whole game. I can't wait to drive up to Brookings this weekend along with a bunch of Yankton area people.

[Jacked_Up]

Re: Beating Dead Horses

Sioux Falls is not the answer to getting people to come to our football games. Winning is the answer to getting people to come to our football games.

True. Winning is the answer. But establishing a long-term tradition of winning (partly by completing stadium, ball park and other facility improvements) also will require money – probably a lot more in donations than SDSU is getting right now. More and bigger donors are needed from somewhere.