Out of Conference Schedule

[mitchell]

I know a few years back the prevailing opinion was "In order to be the best, you have to play and beat the best" but after last season I really feel a new approach to the OOC schedule needs to be taken.

Last year we finished 6-2 in conference and 1-3 in OOC, our OOC schedule was Iowa St, Cal Poly, McNeese St, & Stephen F Austin. Finishing 6-2 in the Missouri Valley is no small feat and typically when a team does they make the playoffs, as they should. But because we played a tough OOC schedule we missed the playoffs, replace one of those games, let's say Cal Poly for Southern Utah, and SDSU would have been in last year and possibly less banged up during the season.

The perfect OOC schedule in my mind would be as follows:

-1 FBS game (I believe the next three years are Nebraska, Illinois, & Minnesota)

-1 powderpuff game (a team like Indiana St where the 2nd string gets a good amount of time on the field)

-1 yearly game vs USD, I realize this is a touchy subject but currently USD is a mid level FCS team and it would be a big ticket event.
The only problem would be if this game would be too high energy/emotion and take away from a conference game. Another problem would be that Coach Meirkort(sp?) will most likely have USD running on all cylinders in a couple years and could be a pretty dangerous team, which would take SDSU back to it's original problem of having too tough of an OOC schedule.

Any thoughts?

[89rabbit]

Re: Out of Conference Schedule

I know a few years back the prevailing opinion was "In order to be the best, you have to play and beat the best" but after last season I really feel a new approach to the OOC schedule needs to be taken.

Last year we finished 6-2 in conference and 1-3 in OOC, our OOC schedule was Iowa St, Cal Poly, McNeese St, & Stephen F Austin. Finishing 6-2 in the Missouri Valley is no small feat and typically when a team does they make the playoffs, as they should. But because we played a tough OOC schedule we missed the playoffs, replace one of those games, let's say Cal Poly for Southern Utah, and SDSU would have been in last year and possibly less banged up during the season.

The perfect OOC schedule in my mind would be as follows:

-1 FBS game (I believe the next three years are Nebraska, Illinois, & Minnesota)

-1 powderpuff game (a team like Indiana St where the 2nd string gets a good amount of time on the field)

-1 yearly game vs USD, I realize this is a touchy subject but currently USD is a mid level FCS team and it would be a big ticket event.
The only problem would be if this game would be too high energy/emotion and take away from a conference game. Another problem would be that Coach Meirkort(sp?) will most likely have USD running on all cylinders in a couple years and could be a pretty dangerous team, which would take SDSU back to it's original problem of having too tough of an OOC schedule.

Any thoughts?

Rplace USD with either Cal Poly or UC Davis. We seem to be getting more and more players from CA and having a game close to them is not a bad thing. Besides if you play a cup cake you will need a little meat.


Go State!

[Nidaros]

Re: Out of Conference Schedule

I know a few years back the prevailing opinion was "In order to be the best, you have to play and beat the best" but after last season I really feel a new approach to the OOC schedule needs to be taken.

Last year we finished 6-2 in conference and 1-3 in OOC, our OOC schedule was Iowa St, Cal Poly, McNeese St, & Stephen F Austin. Finishing 6-2 in the Missouri Valley is no small feat and typically when a team does they make the playoffs, as they should. But because we played a tough OOC schedule we missed the playoffs, replace one of those games, let's say Cal Poly for Southern Utah, and SDSU would have been in last year and possibly less banged up during the season.

The perfect OOC schedule in my mind would be as follows:

-1 FBS game (I believe the next three years are Nebraska, Illinois, & Minnesota)

-1 powderpuff game (a team like Indiana St where the 2nd string gets a good amount of time on the field)

-1 yearly game vs USD, I realize this is a touchy subject but currently USD is a mid level FCS team and it would be a big ticket event.
The only problem would be if this game would be too high energy/emotion and take away from a conference game. Another problem would be that Coach Meirkort(sp?) will most likely have USD running on all cylinders in a couple years and could be a pretty dangerous team, which would take SDSU back to it's original problem of having too tough of an OOC schedule.

Any thoughts?

Out of conference is a term I am not familiar with, but if its means the same as Non-Conference, then okay I get your drift. Until USD gets in the same conference, I think a USD game would be preferrable to say a game with the Big Sky teams, where the guarentees probably do not exceed $100k. Years ago SDSU got 40k, 1993 I believe for going to Montana and I have no idea what they got in the more recent games but suspect its between 50k and 100k. So the BCS schools do not pay out the same guarentee that a FBS does. That has to be an important consideration in scheduling.

Its about money, and if its a choice between Nebraska and USD, its a no brainer. I doubt our gate receipts from a USD game would exceed the guarentee from a Nebraska game or any other B10 or B12. Going to Vermillion what kind of guarentee could you expect? I dont know but thats how I see the non conference games. They are opportunities to make money if we play FBS schools. If its a choice between Montana and USD at home, the USD game might be a better draw in terms of gate receipts and possibly a lower payout for guarentee to USD.

[HandoEX]

Re: Out of Conference Schedule

Out of conference is a term I am not familiar with, but if its means the same as Non-Conference, then okay I get your drift. Until USD gets in the same conference, I think a USD game would be preferrable to say a game with the Big Sky teams, where the guarentees probably do not exceed $100k. Years ago SDSU got 40k, 1993 I believe for going to Montana and I have no idea what they got in the more recent games but suspect its between 50k and 100k. So the BCS schools do not pay out the same guarentee that a FBS does. That has to be an important consideration in scheduling.

Its about money, and if its a choice between Nebraska and USD, its a no brainer. I doubt our gate receipts from a USD game would exceed the guarentee from a Nebraska game or any other B10 or B12. Going to Vermillion what kind of guarentee could you expect? I dont know but thats how I see the non conference games. They are opportunities to make money if we play FBS schools. If its a choice between Montana and USD at home, the USD game might be a better draw in terms of gate receipts and possibly a lower payout for guarentee to USD.

If you read the OP's post, he cleary stated both a FBS game and USD should be scheduled, not USD instead of an FBS.

I thought your schedule was nice last year. The administration scheduled a team that you beat 45-0 the year before that was coming off of an 0-11 campaign in Stephen F Austin. If that isn't a cupcake, I don't know what is. The other 2 FCS teams were pretty darn tough, but they made for quality and winnable games.

[Jacks-02]

Re: Out of Conference Schedule

I know a few years back the prevailing opinion was "In order to be the best, you have to play and beat the best" but after last season I really feel a new approach to the OOC schedule needs to be taken.

Last year we finished 6-2 in conference and 1-3 in OOC, our OOC schedule was Iowa St, Cal Poly, McNeese St, & Stephen F Austin. Finishing 6-2 in the Missouri Valley is no small feat and typically when a team does they make the playoffs, as they should. But because we played a tough OOC schedule we missed the playoffs, replace one of those games, let's say Cal Poly for Southern Utah, and SDSU would have been in last year and possibly less banged up during the season.

The perfect OOC schedule in my mind would be as follows:

-1 FBS game (I believe the next three years are Nebraska, Illinois, & Minnesota)

-1 powderpuff game (a team like Indiana St where the 2nd string gets a good amount of time on the field)

-1 yearly game vs USD, I realize this is a touchy subject but currently USD is a mid level FCS team and it would be a big ticket event.
The only problem would be if this game would be too high energy/emotion and take away from a conference game. Another problem would be that Coach Meirkort(sp?) will most likely have USD running on all cylinders in a couple years and could be a pretty dangerous team, which would take SDSU back to it's original problem of having too tough of an OOC schedule.

Any thoughts?

All good and true, but if we make one more play against McNeese and win that game or don't shoot ourselves in the foot countless times on the road at Southern Illinois and win that game we go to the playoffs anyways.

Its pretty tough when scheduling games 2 or 3 years in advance to know whether an opponent is going to be a top 25 team or not. You don't want to have the opposite problem of a very weak out of conference shedule that can hurt you if you end up 8-3 with no quality non-conference wins either.

I think playing these schools has helped our image tremendously on a national scale and that has helped us in getting regular mention in the polls. If we had played cupcakes for the four years of transition do you think that would be the case?

[zooropa]

Re: Out of Conference Schedule

If we had played cupcakes for the four years of transition do you think that would be the case?

If it had given us gaudy records in those years, yes. Pollsters won't look too closely at the schedule of a 10-1 team in FCS.

I think SDSU should have a BCS program & USD annually and a respectable if not top 20 FCS program or two for the filler.

SDSU is assured of playing top 20 teams by virtue of playing in the Valley, so, say top 50 in non-conf play, would be respectable, IMO.

(why USD? it's a good gate for a mediocre team--definitely a better gate than SFA or that OVC school that SDSU & NDSU keep pummeling--can't remember the name)

[mitchell]

Re: Out of Conference Schedule

My thoughts are if we had NDSU's schedule last year (MVC + Wyoming, Austin Peay, & Cen CN ST) we would have gone 8-3, maybe 9-2 and would have made the playoffs and we would really be able to start a football tradition at SDSU.

Instead we play a tougher schedule and lose three OOC games, and now we are where we were the year before. Just a team that's making a little noise instead of a team that has peoples attenion.

We schedule one FBS for the money/recruits, one against USD for the ticket sales/local attention, & one cupcake that we won't have to worry about being ranked by the time we play them, a la Austin Peay, C CN ST.

I think what happened was before we were in the MVC, we were trying to get home & aways with known programs like McNeese St, Georgia Southern, & Delaware. But now that we have to go through the beast that is the MVC it would be nice to fill that spot with a no-namer until we can build our program into a perennial playoff contender.

A glance at our conference mate's OOC schedules:
NDSU - Iowa St, Sam Houston St, Wagner College
UNI - Iowa, USD, St Francis(PA)
SIU - Marshall, SW Baptist, SE Missouri St

Each one has an FBS and than two very winnable games.

Our schedule:
Minnesota, Cal Poly, Georgia Southern

We actually get lucky because I believe both Cal Poly & Georgia Southern are down this year but any other year that would be a tough, tough schedule with very little room for error to make the playoffs.

[zooropa]

Re: Out of Conference Schedule

Austin Peay--that's the OVC cupcake!

I don't think, out of respect to the program building nature of SDSU vs. the allegedly sold out Fargodome, SDSU should schedule cellar dwellers. 18k will go to the Fargodome to watch NDSU dismantle Cent. Conn. How many would go to CAS for Cent. Conn.?

Also, SDSU can't buy teams for home games yet, and so good, but not great, OOC games (on home and home contracts) would be my suggestion.

Eventually, SDSU might be in a position to buy home games from craptacular teams, until then, the NDSU scheduling strategy doesn't translate.

[NoVaJack]

Re: Out of Conference Schedule

SDSU vs. USD = guaranteed big crowd, $$$, rivalry resumed, and a winnable game that counts toward postseason. Win, win, win, win.

[mitchell]

Re: Out of Conference Schedule

I don't think, out of respect to the program building nature of SDSU vs. the allegedly sold out Fargodome, SDSU should schedule cellar dwellers. 18k will go to the Fargodome to watch NDSU dismantle Cent. Conn. How many would go to CAS for Cent. Conn.?

We might not get much $$$ for scheduling a bad team, but making the playoffs would be much more rewarding, especially if we had the chance to host a game

[NoVaJack]

Re: Out of Conference Schedule

Austin Peay--that's the OVC cupcake!

I don't think, out of respect to the program building nature of SDSU vs. the allegedly sold out Fargodome, SDSU should schedule cellar dwellers. 18k will go to the Fargodome to watch NDSU dismantle Cent. Conn. How many would go to CAS for Cent. Conn.?

Also, SDSU can't buy teams for home games yet, and so good, but not great, OOC games (on home and home contracts) would be my suggestion.

Eventually, SDSU might be in a position to buy home games from craptacular teams, until then, the NDSU scheduling strategy doesn't translate.

Good point. On a larger one, why even bring up Bison in this context? Jacks are a more attractive opponent, because Jacks are a better program as witnessed by the last two Dakota Markers and conference championships or better conference finishes than NDSU. The only '09 non-conference home game for the Bison - the previously discussed Staten Island powerhouse Wagner College - might provide a gate, but what else? The football won't resemble the level one should reasonably expect this many years into D-1 (this purported D-1AA team's 3-8 year in '08 included a couple of losses to D-II teams and an RPI of 228, one spot below the transitioning USD).. Play regionally, or play competition - or preferably, both.

[zooropa]

Re: Out of Conference Schedule

We might not get much $$$ for scheduling a bad team, but making the playoffs would be much more rewarding, especially if we had the chance to host a game

SDSU, at home, should be able to beat any team lower than, say 45 in the FCS ratings.

Therefore, bringing in a #50 ranked team vs. a #100 ranked team, IMO, makes a material difference in the quality of the game and fan experience, and yet should be a comfortable win for the Jacks.

There seems to be, among SDSU boosters & staff, a disdain for NDSU's mercenary approach to scheduling.

Now that may be sour grapes (SDSU can't pay Cent. Conn. $150k to come to Brookings and get spanked) in part, but I think it's also in no small part due to a difference in institutional philosophy toward athletics.

Thus, I stand by the idea that playing UC-Davis, Texas State, or even SUU would be a better all-around game than Cent. Conn or (snort) Wagner College.

BTW: I brought NDSU up because they are in the habit of buying their non-conf games, and choosing real patsies at that.

[NoVaJack]

Re: Out of Conference Schedule

SDSU, at home, should be able to beat any team lower than, say 45 in the FCS ratings.

Therefore, bringing in a #50 ranked team vs. a #100 ranked team, IMO, makes a material difference in the quality of the game and fan experience, and yet should be a comfortable win for the Jacks.

There seems to be, among SDSU boosters & staff, a disdain for NDSU's mercenary approach to scheduling.

Now that may be sour grapes (SDSU can't pay Cent. Conn. $150k to come to Brookings and get spanked) in part, but I think it's also in no small part due to a difference in institutional philosophy toward athletics.

Thus, I stand by the idea that playing UC-Davis, Texas State, or even SUU would be a better all-around game than Cent. Conn or (snort) Wagner College.

BTW: I brought NDSU up because they are in the habit of buying their non-conf games, and choosing real patsies at that.

Your line prompts an idea. Add a third category of opponents: Conference, non conference, and real patsies.

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: Out of Conference Schedule

If it had given us gaudy records in those years, yes. Pollsters won't look too closely at the schedule of a 10-1 team in FCS.

I think SDSU should have a BCS program & USD annually and a respectable if not top 20 FCS program or two for the filler.

SDSU is assured of playing top 20 teams by virtue of playing in the Valley, so, say top 50 in non-conf play, would be respectable, IMO.

(why USD? it's a good gate for a mediocre team--definitely a better gate than SFA or that OVC school that SDSU & NDSU keep pummeling--can't remember the name)

I'm all for playing USD, so this isn't an argument against that. But I don't know if you can say it would definitely be a better gate than other non-conference games. Stephen F Austin is like the fourth or fifth largest crowd in CAS history, and quite possibly the largest all SDSU crowd as the three or four above it are NDSU and two games against USD in the eighties I believe. McNeese might be above SFA too. We played a number of games against USD that didn't draw as much as SFA, even in the late eighties through the transition.

I think the first few games against USD would be big draws possibly setting attendance records, but once the novelty wears off a little again, it will be interesting to see what the attendance will be.

SDSU fans, at this point anyway, have proven they come to games based on the time of the year and weather versus the stature or notoriety of the opponent. Games and attendance numbers against teams like GA Southern, Cal Poly, Missouri-Rolla, SFA, and Valpo prove that.

And, if my memory serves me right, we haven't ever played Austin Peay.

[zooropa]

Re: Out of Conference Schedule

Stephen F Austin is like the fourth or fifth largest crowd in CAS history

It was also Hobo Day.

And you're right. SDSU has never played Austin Peay. Must have gotten them confused with SFA and NDSU's games against them.