SDSU/USD Share Open Date in 2010

[jackmd]

Re: SDSU/USD Share Open Date in 2010

WNAX has a poll, share your opinion as many times as you would like.

http://wnax.com/

Right know the yes vote is dominating.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: SDSU/USD Share Open Date in 2010

Close but not quite. USD NEEDS to get the rivalry started again, SDSU does not. Have vs have not. The haves have it.

Please explain your definition of need. The human body needs food and water or it will eventually die but it doesn't need a diet of steak and potatoes everyday to survive and prosper. USD does not NEED SDSU. They have played for half a decade without SDSU and their program is as healthy as ever. The attendance is better as well so your notion that USD needs SDSU is on shakey ground.

USD's and SDSU's attendance numbers have both gone up since they stopped playing one another. SDSU's probably because of going D1 and because of some success and USD's primarily because of the dramatic upswing of the program in the past handfull of years.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: SDSU/USD Share Open Date in 2010

When it comes to attendance figures you can't just compare SDSU's average attandance numbers now compared to when they played USD in D2. You would need to compare SDSU's current attandance numbers vs a USD game that happened as a battle of D1's. SDSU obviously has a much larger average attandance for all games now than they did in their D2 days so it's not an accurate comparison. I am sure the games against NDSU in the D2 days in Brookings did not draw what they do today. If SDSU fans want to draw a comparison look at the attendance numbers of the NDSU games in the last 10 years or so of D2 and compare them to the attendance numbers vs USD. When USD last played SDSU they were probably averaging 4,000 per game at home and their road attendance at places such as Morningside, Augie and SDSU was not as good either. A typical USD road attendance in a game vs Augie was probably around 500 a game for USD fans back in the 90's. The last couple of years USD has played in Sioux Falls I would venture to say that they had 3K-4K in 2005 and about 2K-2,500 in 2007. Why because the program is on a winning track. During the down years when they were lucky to finish 4-5 in the NCC the interest level was not as high and it even carried over to games against SDSU.

If USD plays a game at Brookings in 2010 you can be absolutely gauranteed there will be a minimum of 3K Coyote fans at that game. Probably more and maybe much more than that. Ok if the weather is bad maybe fewer but that will be true for SDSU as well. SDSU fans just don't really know much about the USD football program anymore. The fan interest is higher now than it was last time the two teams met. SDSU's fan interest is also higher than the last time the two schools met. That is why there would be a liklihood of a large crowd even if the weather isn't all that good. If the game was played on a late September afternoon at Coughlin I could see the attendance being at least 15,000 and for all the SDSU fans that claim they wouldn't attend or wouldn't care any more than a regular game I bet that 90% of those fans that might skip another game for whatever reason wouldn't skip the USD game. You can bang your chests and claim that USD is no big deal but that is just trying to ignore reality. There is no better gauge of interest in a game or rivalry than actual fan attendance at the game.

[6-4-3 Jackrabbit]

Re: SDSU/USD Share Open Date in 2010

Really, the paper that added/dedicated a beat writer to SDSU when it went D-1? The paper that employs TV that almost everyone on the board thinks does a fabulous job? The paper that has increased its coverage of SDSU both in terms of column inches and financial resources?

Wow! It was the biggest no-brainer in the history of journalism & business. Let's see cover the D-1 program or a bunch of NAIA and D2 schools. Pat yourself on the back Argus. You're sooooo smart.

[filbert]

Re: SDSU/USD Share Open Date in 2010

This thread seems to be degenerating a bit into the usual State-U woofing (woofing is kind of like smack, but not as intense, not as funny, and much, much more boring.)

IMHO, of course.

I can see a scenario going forward where SDSU plays late-season home games vs. NDSU and USD in alternate years. That would, it seems to me, make sense, putting your closest "rival" (however defined) in the classic D-I November rivalry weekend, and providing a late-season home "rivalry" game.

Naturally, the other schools, and the MVFC, will have a say in this scheduling, but from my point of view, that would be a desirable scheduling outcome for SDSU in the long run. But I can see you'd want to consider the opportunity cost of that game vs. playing another FBS guarantee game or playing another quality FCS opponent, or playing the rivalry game(s) earlier in the season to maximize the gate income.

What I want more than anything else is for SDSU to make an economically rational decision, maximizing the benefit to my school.

Since it's quite obviously the USD side of things who are pushing to play sooner rather than later, I think it's a perfectly reasonable conclusion to say that USD wants/needs/whatever the game more than SDSU wants/needs it. I don't see that as a value judgement regarding the two schools, but more of a simple recognition of where each one is in the D-I transition process. That's not saying that USD needs the game and SDSU doesn't, but simply that the relative priority is seen differently by the two schools.

SDSU is through the tunnel and establishing our place in D-I, USD is still in the process of going through the same tunnel. USD's place in D-I isn't established yet. Playing SDSU early and often would greatly assist in establishing USD in D-I--that seems obvious to me. This has nothing whatsoever to do with one school perceiving itself as "better" than another one, but a simple recognition of where each one is in the overall process.

So, resuming play in the revenue sports is a simply a higher priority for USD than it is for SDSU. I know if I was USD's AD I'd be pounding the podium for getting SDSU on the schedule ASAP and if I was a USD fan I'd be hitting the discussion boards and the letters to the editor and the radio shows, agitating for resuming the play in revenue sports.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: SDSU/USD Share Open Date in 2010

I have to disagree with this, Meierkort clearly was laying the fact that the game wasn't scheduled already at the feet of SDSU.

Yes he was, but NorCal was saying that it implies blame to SDSU for ending the rivalry. I think he was implying blame to SDSU for not restarting the rivalry.

[jackmd]

Re: SDSU/USD Share Open Date in 2010

SDSU is through the tunnel and establishing our place in D-I, USD is still in the process of going through the same tunnel. USD's place in D-I isn't established yet. Playing SDSU early and often would greatly assist in establishing USD in D-I--that seems obvious to me. This has nothing whatsoever to do with one school perceiving itself as "better" than another one, but a simple recognition of where each one is in the overall process.

So, resuming play in the revenue sports is a simply a higher priority for USD than it is for SDSU. I know if I was USD's AD I'd be pounding the podium for getting SDSU on the schedule ASAP and if I was a USD fan I'd be hitting the discussion boards and the letters to the editor and the radio shows, agitating for resuming the play in revenue sports.

Stop it! With all this logic emotion will get stifled and we'll all be smarter.

I didn't say anything about SDSU being better than USD as the reason we shouldn't necessarily have USD on the football schedule. In fact, I said if USD is the best fit for that date we should have them on our FB schedule.

As for the attendance, I don't know if you could count on 3,000 USD fans at CAS in November, I wouldn't bet on it. The dome wouldn't be able to hold the SDSU fans alone.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: SDSU/USD Share Open Date in 2010

I knew this would be a thread when I saw the article, beginning to wish I had let some one else start. Not sure that I like seeing my name under it every time I open the board.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: SDSU/USD Share Open Date in 2010

Wow! It was the biggest no-brainer in the history of journalism & business. Let's see cover the D-1 program or a bunch of NAIA and D2 schools. Pat yourself on the back Argus. You're sooooo smart.

OK, so how were they supposed to cover this?

[1bunnies]

Re: SDSU/USD Share Open Date in 2010

Please explain your definition of need. The human body needs food and water or it will eventually die but it doesn't need a diet of steak and potatoes everyday to survive and prosper. USD does not NEED SDSU. They have played for half a decade without SDSU and their program is as healthy as ever. The attendance is better as well so your notion that USD needs SDSU is on shakey ground.

USD's and SDSU's attendance numbers have both gone up since they stopped playing one another. SDSU's probably because of going D1 and because of some success and USD's primarily because of the dramatic upswing of the program in the past handfull of years.

It is apparent to me that your definition of a dramatic upswing in a program is winning 75% of your games in a conference where the good teams left and you scheduled NAIA cupcakes.

[EQguy]

Re: SDSU/USD Share Open Date in 2010

I want to take this back to what Stig said on the radio the other day because, I feel it is the big picture. I am going to paraphrase and add my own thoughts. I am sure Stig stated it much more succinctly than I will.

Back in 05 I believe, we played Missouri Rolla for Hobo Day in a Snow/Wind/Rain/Sun game and drew 13,000, the next home game was against #2 Georgia Southern on a beautiful fall day and there were 4500 there.

The problem is that fans have to have time to figure out what a quality opponent is and what that means. If you took a poll of the 13,000 people in attendance at one of last years games how many do you think would know who Appalachian State or Richmond is? I would bet fairly low (mostly the people that frequent here). Having USD on the schedule only muddies that fact. People will then look at the schedule and see that one game and not take the time to care or learn about the Delaware's of the world. This in the end will only hurt attendance and only hurt the state of SDSU football. Our fandome isn't nearly as developed as NDSU's is, so the school has to take steps to ensure that they are teaching people about the quality of football being played here. That will take time. As soon as they are comfortable that people are getting it then they can afford to bring in USD again as it will be a big game (don't kid yourself) but it won't be to the detriment of the other big games on the schedule.

[rcjacks]

Re: SDSU/USD Share Open Date in 2010

I want to take this back to what Stig said on the radio the other day because, I feel it is the big picture. I am going to paraphrase and add my own thoughts. I am sure Stig stated it much more succinctly than I will.

Back in 05 I believe, we played Missouri Rolla for Hobo Day in a Snow/Wind/Rain/Sun game and drew 13,000, the next home game was against #2 Georgia Southern on a beautiful fall day and there were 4500 there.

The problem is that fans have to have time to figure out what a quality opponent is and what that means. If you took a poll of the 13,000 people in attendance at one of last years games how many do you think would know who Appalachian State or Richmond is? I would bet fairly low (mostly the people that frequent here). Having USD on the schedule only muddies that fact. People will then look at the schedule and see that one game and not take the time to care or learn about the Delaware's of the world. This in the end will only hurt attendance and only hurt the state of SDSU football. Our fandome isn't nearly as developed as NDSU's is, so the school has to take steps to ensure that they are teaching people about the quality of football being played here. That will take time. As soon as they are comfortable that people are getting it then they can afford to bring in USD again as it will be a big game (don't kid yourself) but it won't be to the detriment of the other big games on the schedule.

Are you serious? I guarantee you that the same fans that don't know App. State, U of Richmond, etc. will still not know them whether or not we play USD. Just because we don't play USD does not mean fans will get to know the top teams in FCS/D1-AA from other parts of the country. There are 12 games a year? USD would be one of 12.

Filbert is right that USD needs this game more than SDSU does, but USD is a counter so there is no reason for us not to play them. I want what is best for SDSU as well, but ducking/avoiding USD, in my personal opinion, is not best for SDSU. This is just my opinion.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: SDSU/USD Share Open Date in 2010

For those that say scheduling USD for this open date, I would like to know how you can say that must be in SDSU's best interest when we don't know what the other options being explored are?

All I know is that I am glad that we are in the position that we are. Since this has started I have been trying to think of an instance where the party in negotiation says we will accept any of your terms, is in the position of making demands on those terms? I can't think of one.

Why can SDSU afford to wait on deciding if this game is in its best interest? Because it has many more options than USD.

I still think that in essence, this comes down to USD having only 4 conference games a year and we have 8. If the situations were that both schools had 8 conference games, USD would position would change. And if SDSU had 4 conference games a year and USD had 8, does anyone seriously beieve that USD would have the exact same position as they do today? I don't. Oh, and I also believe SDSU's position would be different also.

[EQguy]

Re: SDSU/USD Share Open Date in 2010

Are you serious? I guarantee you that the same fans that don't know App. State, U of Richmond, etc. will still not know them whether or not we play USD. Just because we don't play USD does not mean fans will get to know the top teams in FCS/D1-AA from other parts of the country. There are 12 games a year? USD would be one of 12.

Filbert is right that USD needs this game more than SDSU does, but USD is a counter so there is no reason for us not to play them. I want what is best for SDSU as well, but ducking/avoiding USD, in my personal opinion, is not best for SDSU. This is just my opinion.

Things have already started to change. People were genuinely excited to see McNeese and Poly this year. Interest in SDSU football is at an all time high. I don't know why people feel that anyone is ducking USD. Stig and Rob P. have shown they have no problem playing the best that FCS has to offer what is there to be afraid of with USD? Nothing.

[bison8xchamp]

Re: SDSU/USD Share Open Date in 2010

I doubt USD brings more than NDSU but I havn't been to a USD-SDSU game in some time. Would be a nice crowd.

In my eyes USD is the worst team in the Dakota's. Hopefully they can win up in grand forks though.