2022 and 2023 Champs and the All Time Jacks

[LetsGoRabbits]

I never saw Ranek play, but I think Strong definitely merits consideration. RB is complicated because one could argue that it's likely Zenner and Ranek would've been even more prolific with OLs of our current era.

I think Jason Schneider or Josh Davis merit consideration at WR, but I can't say I would "bench" anyone in your top 3. However, if Johnson spends a couple years as KR, then I could see moving Schneider up the list.

i definitely agree with you on that point. i also think one could argue that maybe Davis would put up bigger numbers if he played on an offense that leaned on him more heavily. i think both points are reasonable. i do feel like there is some evidence that Davis might not hold up to being used as heavily game in and game out as Ranek and Zenner were used.

Strong and similarly Schneider and Davis had unquestionably GREAT careers!! there is no shame in getting mentioned in the conversation but not quite getting over the hump when compared to another all time player. for me personally, Pierre was a blast to watch!! but the line feels pretty clear, Ranek, Zenner, and Davis are unbelievably close and I honestly dont think i could disagree with anyone who put any of them at number one, but there is a definite separation between them and the next few guys. I feel like Pierre is very likely number four but i do think there is room for debate about that

the WR question- can anyone make a case for Weineke not being the clear number one? I feel like I may have some recency bias, but i think we can argue that none of our other receivers have been as good in playoff games as the Jankes have. I think that is the one area that they might surpass Jake. i am not going to go into it more, but I think one could also argue that circumstances were not the same for other WRs

in the end, I still see Jake as the top guy and for me personally it is really close between him and Ranek for my all time favorite player to watch and to cheer for. I think there is a pile of WRs after Jake and people could make argument for any of them being number two- or i would love to hear the arguments for them being number one. I hope some more people will make the argument for their guy!! that is the fun of this discussion))!

the group is the Jankes, Schneider, Tiefentahler, Davis, Cade J, and is Dale Moss in anyones discussion based on one excellent year and multiple years on the fringe of the NFL?? i have the Jankes, Schneider, and Tiefentahler separated by a tiny tiny margin from the rest of those. i have those four as basically a dead heat, but I give the Jankes the nod, because they have done it in the biggest games the Jacks have ever played and they have been absolutely great in playoff games

[salemjack]

Recency bias is a hell of a drug

[jakejc795]

i definitely agree with you on that point. i also think one could argue that maybe Davis would put up bigger numbers if he played on an offense that leaned on him more heavily. i think both points are reasonable. i do feel like there is some evidence that Davis might not hold up to being used as heavily game in and game out as Ranek and Zenner were used.

Strong and similarly Schneider and Davis had unquestionably GREAT careers!! there is no shame in getting mentioned in the conversation but not quite getting over the hump when compared to another all time player. for me personally, Pierre was a blast to watch!! but the line feels pretty clear, Ranek, Zenner, and Davis are unbelievably close and I honestly dont think i could disagree with anyone who put any of them at number one, but there is a definite separation between them and the next few guys. I feel like Pierre is very likely number four but i do think there is room for debate about that

the WR question- can anyone make a case for Weineke not being the clear number one? I feel like I may have some recency bias, but i think we can argue that none of our other receivers have been as good in playoff games as the Jankes have. I think that is the one area that they might surpass Jake. i am not going to go into it more, but I think one could also argue that circumstances were not the same for other WRs

in the end, I still see Jake as the top guy and for me personally it is really close between him and Ranek for my all time favorite player to watch and to cheer for. I think there is a pile of WRs after Jake and people could make argument for any of them being number two- or i would love to hear the arguments for them being number one. I hope some more people will make the argument for their guy!! that is the fun of this discussion))!

the group is the Jankes, Schneider, Tiefentahler, Davis, Cade J, and is Dale Moss in anyones discussion based on one excellent year and multiple years on the fringe of the NFL?? i have the Jankes, Schneider, and Tiefentahler separated by a tiny tiny margin from the rest of those. i have those four as basically a dead heat, but I give the Jankes the nod, because they have done it in the biggest games the Jacks have ever played and they have been absolutely great in playoff games

The Jankes benefitted from having two RBs In Strong and Davis that were either drafted or almost inevitably will be during their tenures, which I would think folks must consider when comparing Weineke's and the Jankes' production

[Walrus]

One name I haven't seen mentioned and he probably doesn't belong in the discussion anyway, is Lynn Boden. He was the Lions pick in the first round of the 1975 draft, 13th overall. He played in at least parts of 5 NFL seasons and likely wasn't considered to be a great first round pick. I think he was the NCC's only first round pick. At 6'3" and 270 lbs, he would be too small for today's Div 1 game. Most of the participants in this discussion probably weren't born in 1975, but I'm old and while I don't know much about football, I've been a Jacks fan since 1969 or so.

I don't think Jim Langer was drafted at all.

[SlapJack]

i will leave special teams open for now. i am sure i already wrote enough to piss off several people. the all time Kicker seems kinda obvious, but I think you can find reasons that Dustman stays the starter in 2023 or for someone other than Adam

Much respect for both Dustman and Vinnie, but for his Jackrabbit career: Parker Douglass.

It stinks he never got a real shot at the pro's.

[WestSideRabbit]

Here is how I'd go. I'm sorry but I don't have much context of the guys before D1 so apologies if someone is missed. It is so hard to compare eras because the nutrition, training, equipment is all so much more advanced than it was then. Here is my best guess.

QB: Mark, TC
RB: Isaiah, Zenner, Ranek
TE: Dallas, Tucker, Heiden/Heinz
WR: Wieneke, Janke, Janke, Cade Johnson
LT: Bryan Witzman
LG: Mason McCormick
C: Jacob Ohnesorge, Langer
RG: Adam Timmerman
RT: Garret Greenfield

DE: Winkelman, Terveer
DT: Sanders, Cole Langer (Imagine how good he could have been as part of a rotation instead of playing 80%+ of snaps)
DT: Soulek, Eric Schroeder
DE: Battan
Sam: Domino, Stalbird
Mike: Rozeboom
Will: Bock, Freeman
CB: Jordan Brown, Don Gardner
CB: Gales, Beanum
FS: Large, Conrad Kjerstad (he was awesome before injury)
SS: Scott Connet, Mears

P: Dustman
K: Douglass
LS: Trenhaile

[Jacked_Up]

Good list, WSR. But I'd add Wayne Rasmussen, who was a multi-sport star for the Jacks in the 1960s and went on to play for eight years for the Detroit Lions as a safety. Lynn Boden, an o-lineman for the Jacks in the 1970s, was drafted by the Lions in the first round and played five years in the NFL. He also deserves consideration.

[mitchell]

My all time lineup from when I started watching (fcs 2004):

QB Gronowski
RB Zenner or Davis or Strong
WR Wieneke
WR Cade Johnson or Jankes
TE Goedert
LT Witzmann
LG McCormick
OC Ohnesorge or Miller
RG Pupungatoa
RT Greenfield

DE Batten
DT Sanders
DT Soulek or Schroeder
DE Winkleman or Earith
OLB/S Stahlbird or Rogers or Dallas Brown
MLB Rozeboom or Bock
OLB Domino
CB Jordan Brown
CB Winston Wright or Don Gardner or Cole Brodie
SS Large or Mears
FS Griffin

PK Douglas
P Dustman or Bainbridge

[LetsGoRabbits]

I would not ask or expect anyone to give a break down of their thoughts at every position, but isnt part of the fun of something like this sort of debating the merits of one player over another? maybe I am the only one who enjoys that. would love to hear some of your reasons for Mark over TC? or Davis over Zenner? etc...

seems like some of the reasoning for some is never seeing the old guys. I encourage you at least look at Raneks stats. I am going to make Ranek my starter unless someone could give me a real reason that they believe he would not put up numbers equal to Isaiah if we put him on the team for the last two years. I am not saying Ranek is better. I am saying Ranek, Zenner, and Davis are in a dead heat tie. it is absolutely unbelievable that we have had three RBs as good as these three!! any one of they would be the head and shoulders best RB ever at many many many schools, including plenty of FBS and also including NDSU. for being a school known for running the ball the Bison have never had a back close to these three

Ranek was good for 4 years, unbelievable for 3 years, and OTHER WORDLY for 2 years. his final two years he had over 2300 yards from scrimmage in ONLY 11 games both years. Isaiah played 15 games this year and he did not come within 500 yards of what Ranek did TWICE

Zenner did top Raneks top yards from scrimmage total. he had 2351 yards from scrimmage his final year, but he did play in 14 games.

I totally agree Ranek does not have the size of Davis and Zenner, but he was a workhorse and unbelievably durable. he averaged over 30 touches a game for TWO YEARS. and he did it with not near the O Line Davis had. Josh could make his own hole, but he also ran over and through guys on a regular basis. I really believe Isaiah has a shot to be a serious player in the NFL. if that happens, maybe he will prove I am wrong about this, but I dont think that he could have held up to the amount of touches that Ranek did for a whole season, let alone 2 whole seasons

it probably sounds like i am trying to make the point that Josh is better than Zach or Isaiah. I am not. I am offering the evidence that makes me believe these 3 are equal or at least the difference between them is so slim it is meaningless

Remember in our D2 days the NCC was basically the MVFC of D2. the NCC was a beast!! both ND schools won multiple NC, UNC was great and i believe also won at least one NC before their coach went to Montana, UNO was great, and several other of the schools had at least a good year or more

Remember Josh played on teams that were good but never great, he DID NOT have the talent around him that Zach and Isaiah had. his senior year they went 5 - 6, which was really pretty respectable, with a one score loss to NDSU and competitive losses to UNC and UNO

and they played few if any cupcakes. he put up BIG numbers against teams that had serious contender goals.
UNO 32 touches, 192 total yards, 2 TDs
NDSU ran for 254, 31 touches, 302 total yards, 3 TDs
UNC 107 total yards, 2 TDs
W Washington 29 touches, 261 total yards, 4 TDs

those are just some numbers he put up in losses against 4 good teams. if you have not, you should look at the stats, they are the definition of video game stats.

my belief is Josh played on good teams that were overmatched against great competition. Zach played on teams that had great skill positon players. the O and D lines were probably good enough to compete against almost anyone, but not the very best teams and they were overmatched against NDSU. Davis has played with the most complete teams with EASILY the best O and D lines that we have ever had.

i believe that these 3 players are too close to call, but I have little doubt that if you put Zenner or Ranek on the 2022 and 2023 Jacks they would still be GREAT. Davis would also still be great playing on the teams of the other two AND he would probably put up some bigger numbers given greater opportunity. I do, however, doubt that Davis is as durable as the other two

when you are ranking your all time best, there is only 1 #1 and 1 #2, etc... i honestly believe these 3 are equal, but i would be very interested to have someone tell me why they are not!!

somebody claimed i had recency bias about the Jankes (I did first and someone seemed to make a strong agreement). what is my bias on this? old man bias?

my all time RB rank is Ranek, Zenner, Davis

oh BTW, i also believe that Strong and Minnett are too close to call for who is #4

AGAIN dont expect anyone / everyone to give near that amount of explanation!! but can some of ya make a bit of a case for your guy?