GDT: @ Southern Illinois (10/21/23)

[MontanaRabbit]

Although the camera work was god awful, I enjoyed their announcers. They were prepared. Knew facts about SDSU and were very complimentary. Stone made a comment at one time, wait until they get in the red zone. I’ve got some facts for you.

[salemjack]

Salemjack: I’m curious about your extreme dislike of Coach Rogers as demonstrated by your posts during this football season. What’s up with that? It’s one thing fo post fact-based critical comments on a D1 head football coach but there seems to be some underlying problem driving your criticism of the first- year coach whose team happens to be undefeated and earning its ranking in FCS football. So now you suggest a football team should be run like a platoon of Navy Seals?

First of all, based on your last sentence, it’s obvious you have never read the book.

But I will apologize as I have been pretty brash on here — my reasoning — I loved Coach Stig. He was a man of faith and although his teams had their flaws, they were always disciplined and respectful.

This whole season we have struggled with penalties, which is frustrating, but I more concerned with the penalties of the personal foul variety. Maybe I am wrong — but we have to be on pace for the most personal fouls of all time.

I think everyone has a perception of SDSU as smart and hard working. Now that we won a singular championship we seem like we are trying to be Miami Hurricanes, and that worries me.

On a personal level — I despise excuses — and when it comes to these penalties there is always an excuse made.

I’ll try and snooze my opinions if you think I am being to brash on a first time head coach.

[jackrabit1]

Putting the drama aside, I posted these thoughts on the SDSU Jackrabbit Fans Nation page on Facebook:

“I think the lesson here is that when you’re the king (or queen), you have a big target on your back. And EVERYONE is going to do their best to knock you off, because they want to be the ones that topped the champs (like anyone that knocked off NDSU over the past 11 years).

It’s a reminder that when others are gunning for you, that you have to be ready and fight back. The Jacks have done that twice this season against quality opponents, and that sets them up for success for the rest of the season.”

TL;DR - SIU is a good team with a really good defense. Jacks struggled at times, but even with an ugly performance, we still won. Sometimes you gotta win ugly. That’s life.

[AZjack]

Fans should probably watch/listen to the entire interview before drawing conclusions that Rogers is shirking responsiblity. Sneak preview -- Rogers led with an admission that Jacks needed to clean up the penalties.

Did watch/listen to the whole interview numerous times. Jimmy has said after every game that we need to clean up penalties, yet yesterday was an insane amount of penalties.

He is/will be an awesome coach, but this needs to be addressed. Cut down on the penalties or the staff will continue to hear about undisciplined play.

Next week will be chippy and intense, officials will be quick with whistles. Will be a good game to determine if the penalty issue has been addressed.

[JackJD]

First of all, based on your last sentence, it’s obvious you have never read the book.

But I will apologize as I have been pretty brash on here — my reasoning — I loved Coach Stig. He was a man of faith and although his teams had their flaws, they were always disciplined and respectful.

This whole season we have struggled with penalties, which is frustrating, but I more concerned with the penalties of the personal foul variety. Maybe I am wrong — but we have to be on pace for the most personal fouls of all time.

I think everyone has a perception of SDSU as smart and hard working. Now that we won a singular championship we seem like we are trying to be Miami Hurricanes, and that worries me.

On a personal level — I despise excuses — and when it comes to these penalties there is always an excuse made.

I’ll try and snooze my opinions if you think I am being to brash on a first time head coach.

I haven't read the book...the stack of 'to be read books' next to my bed is too tall and I am hesitant to add to the stack until it is reduced. I am generally aware of the book and its subject: a leader must take full ownership for everything they do and everything done by those on their team. I have a friend who was a Navy Seal and my comments about running the team like a platoon of Navy Seals is tongue-in-cheek-- but if you don't like personal-foul penalties, I don't think you'd appreciate my friend's attitude when he feels challenged. .

It just seems like you've been uncharacteristically tough on the new coach, to the point that one has to wonder if there is some sort of personal problem between you and the coach.

We all love Stig and I hold him in very high regard. But you may have forgotten some of the history of penalty problems during Stig's tenure. Eventually those problems were wrestled under control. I'm confident the current coaching staff will address the penalties. I also think that the target on SDSU's back attracts not only the opposing players but also the refs who desire to facilitate a "fair game" but that desire sometimes seems to adjust in favor of a weaker team. This weekend's game with SIU had clear examples of some goofy calls by the refs (and, sure, some examples of correct calls by the refs). The Jacks were penalized for infractions that were ignored when the other team did them. That's just my observation -- I'm not making excuses and have no standing to make excuses.

I haven't heard the coach make any excuses for actual penalies commited. It has been clear to me that he doesn't like penalties and wants them reduced. I strongly disagree with the following statement you made: . "Now that we won a singular championship we seem like we are trying to be Miami Hurricanes, and that worries me." I think the opposite is the case: Our team knows that it is far from what NDSU has accomplished and we're just taking one step at a time in building the program. If we win a second national title, that still doesn't merit mention in the same paragaph that describes the Bison. I think we should all be impressed about how this team practically ignored the transfer portal (yes, I know we lost two or three from the roster) after last season and instead committed to return to be a part of the team and give their best to try and finish #1.

You shouldn't "snooze" your opinions as you put it. But when an opinion is stated in a forum of this nature, expect someone to have a different opinion.

[bigticket1]

First of all, based on your last sentence, it’s obvious you have never read the book.

But I will apologize as I have been pretty brash on here — my reasoning — I loved Coach Stig. He was a man of faith and although his teams had their flaws, they were always disciplined and respectful.

This whole season we have struggled with penalties, which is frustrating, but I more concerned with the penalties of the personal foul variety. Maybe I am wrong — but we have to be on pace for the most personal fouls of all time.

I think everyone has a perception of SDSU as smart and hard working. Now that we won a singular championship we seem like we are trying to be Miami Hurricanes, and that worries me.

On a personal level — I despise excuses — and when it comes to these penalties there is always an excuse made.

I’ll try and snooze my opinions if you think I am being to brash on a first time head coach.

Wasn't it just last season where the Jacks got called for multiple personal fouls for standing over people / taunting ?

[salemjack]

I’m not sure, I guess I am a casual.

It’s pretty simple, we have a penalty problem, and our coaches haven’t taken accountability for that.

But winning solves everything… if we lost yesterday you would all be singing a different tune.

[jackdaniel]

A high spirited horse you have to give him his head once in awhile , loosen up the reins some, if you want to get the most out of him. While stationed in Ft Campbell , Ky, I went to a horse riding stable, they gave me a horse that gave me the ride of my life, it was exhilarating to say the least, most fun I ever experienced riding,I got to take the horse out on my own, full out running, ducking under low branches galloping down the trail, just like in the movies, Ha!. Growing up in Sioux Falls, we had nothing to compare, not even close, or the Black hills either. Those were I'd deem "tourist rides" ,no running the horse, highly supervised. I kind of attributed this thrill ride to Ky, noted for raising thoroughbreds in the State.

I think the SDSU Jackrabbits Football team has thoroughbreds up and down the roster, who play all out. It's not that they consciously decide to play "undisciplined" , it's just that they are very good athletes who are at a high state of aggressiveness, who get a little too amped up occasionally. I'm very pleased we are undefeated so far this season, for a reason, these guys play hard and aggressive, I'd hate to see them become too constrained and too docile. Give the coach time , I'm sure he'll find a way to keep the guys playing aggressive, yet disciplined , without destroying their winning spirit that's such a big reason we are undefeated I think.

[jackrabit1]

It is perfectly acceptable to have a difference of opinion. I draw the line at personal attacks and call-outs. We don’t need the toxic fandom that we see in other teams’ fan forums.

Rogers has some big shoes to fill, and he will have his growing pains. But he has the team playing well, and there hasn’t been a drop-off in performance, IMO.

And while Stig established the culture here, let’s not forget that there were a few vocal posters who wanted him to step down because we could never win “the big one”. And like Rogers, there were also issues with penalties at times. It’s an issue all coaches deal with. It’s part of the game.

SDSU had an amazing game against Northern Iowa. I’d say it was probably the most complete game the Jackrabbits played this season. But I also think it’s foolish to assume that all future games would be like this. Sometimes you have to claw and fight and win ugly. That’s okay. It still counts as a win. I’m sure the coaches are busy breaking down the video with the players, point out what worked (and what didn’t), and then move on to prepare for USD.

We as fans have the luxury of ruminating on these games. Rogers, his staff, and the players don’t. USD is six days away, sans GameDay.

[JackJD]

Compare the SDSU all-time records for penalties to the penalties so far in 2023.

The following current records are taken from “The Bum” game program for October 10, 2023, Hobo Day, UNI v. SDSU, page 15, “Jackrabbit Team Records”
Game: 15, vs. Morningside, 9-30-2000 (159 yards); vs. St. Cloud State, 9-22-2001 (139 yard) ; and vs. Northern Colorado, 11-20-2004 (153 yards).
Fewest, Game: 0 vs. Mankato State, 11-14-1964, and vs. Delaware, 5-8-2021.
Season: 92 in 2021 (for 809 yards in 15 games).

Yards:
Game: 159 v. Morningside, 9-30-2000 (15 penalties)
Season: 887 in 2000 (86 penalties in 11 games)


Now, compare the current school records to the penalties incurred so far in the 2023 season (statistics from GoJacks.com website obtained 10/22/23):

Penalties in 2023 season (number / yards)
Date ---SDS stats (# / yards) --- Opponent stats (# / yards)

Aug 31 SDS 9 / 81 Western OR 3 / 32
Sept 9 SDS 7 / 75 Montana St 12 / 80
Sept 16 SDS 4 / 55 Drake 6 / 36
Sept 30 SDS 6 / 68 UND 3 / 17
Oct 7 SDS 9 / 90 IL St 3 / 15
Oct 14 SDS 6 47 UNI 2 / 15
Oct 21 SDS 13 / 125 SIU 7 / 45

SDSU totals through Oct 21: 54 penalties for 551 yards

Observation: Too many penalties this season but no records broken yet. All of the records were set during the tenure of the Jacks' most successful coach.

[jbjack]

I loved Coach Stig. He was a man of faith and although his teams had their flaws, they were always disciplined and respectful

I don't know anything about Coach Rodgers other than by all accounts, he is intense. By all appearances, he was Coach Stig's hands picked successor - some viewed his hiring as H.C. as Stig's last victory. I would assume that means that Stig saw many of the same qualities in Rodgers as he saw in himself and he obviously thought very highly of him. At the same time, Coach Rodgers was very loyal to Coach Stig and the admiration mutual. Coach Stig wasn't forced out and he was able to pick his legacy. I'd be surprised at any animosity towards Rodgers simply because he's not Coach Stig.

[jbjack]

Compare the SDSU all-time records for penalties to the penalties so far in 2023.

The following current records are taken from “The Bum” game program for October 10, 2023, Hobo Day, UNI v. SDSU, page 15, “Jackrabbit Team Records”
Game: 15, vs. Morningside, 9-30-2000 (159 yards); vs. St. Cloud State, 9-22-2001 (139 yard) ; and vs. Northern Colorado, 11-20-2004 (153 yards).
Fewest, Game: 0 vs. Mankato State, 11-14-1964, and vs. Delaware, 5-8-2021.
Season: 92 in 2021 (for 809 yards in 15 games).

Yards:
Game: 159 v. Morningside, 9-30-2000 (15 penalties)
Season: 887 in 2000 (86 penalties in 11 games)


Now, compare the current school records to the penalties incurred so far in the 2023 season (statistics from GoJacks.com website obtained 10/22/23):

Penalties in 2023 season (number / yards)
Date ---SDS stats (# / yards) --- Opponent stats (# / yards)

Aug 31 SDS 9 / 81 Western OR 3 / 32
Sept 9 SDS 7 / 75 Montana St 12 / 80
Sept 16 SDS 4 / 55 Drake 6 / 36
Sept 30 SDS 6 / 68 UND 3 / 17
Oct 7 SDS 9 / 90 IL St 3 / 15
Oct 14 SDS 6 47 UNI 2 / 15
Oct 21 SDS 13 / 125 SIU 7 / 45

SDSU totals through Oct 21: 54 penalties for 551 yards

Observation: Too many penalties this season but no records broken yet. All of the records were set during the tenure of the Jacks' most successful coach.

Throw out MSU and Drake and we're being flagged at twice the rate of our opponents. Perhaps my perception is blinded by my bias but it seems to me that the lesser team would have more penalties due to mismatches, poorer athletes, frustration, etc. I'm too lazy to look up stats but I doubt NDSU was flagged at twice the rate of its opponents during any one of its championship seasons. Perhaps we really are just undisciplined but wouldn't that trait spill into other facets of the game?

[jakejc795]

Did watch/listen to the whole interview numerous times. Jimmy has said after every game that we need to clean up penalties, yet yesterday was an insane amount of penalties.

He is/will be an awesome coach, but this needs to be addressed. Cut down on the penalties or the staff will continue to hear about undisciplined play.

Next week will be chippy and intense, officials will be quick with whistles. Will be a good game to determine if the penalty issue has been addressed.

When the opponents' own analysts are vocal about multiple penalties being iffy, I think folks should at least acknowledge that, and there was a marked difference in how Rogers interview was initially framed in this thread and how it actually began.

[jakejc795]

I’m not sure, I guess I am a casual.

It’s pretty simple, we have a penalty problem, and our coaches haven’t taken accountability for that.

But winning solves everything… if we lost yesterday you would all be singing a different tune.

What would Rogers or Sell need to do for you to say the coaches have "taken accountability"?

Rogers explicitly mentioned at 4:38 mark of the postgame interview an illegal substitution being "on us" (coaches). Otherwise, I suppose you could attribute the delay on the punt to a coaching error by not calling a timeout; however, at least one personal foul/unsportsmanlike (the "fair catch") and one roughing penalty (against Johnson) were so suspect that Stone spent decent amounts of time discussing how questionable they were

[LetsGoRabbits]

I haven't read the book...the stack of 'to be read books' next to my bed is too tall and I am hesitant to add to the stack until it is reduced. I am generally aware of the book and its subject: a leader must take full ownership for everything they do and everything done by those on their team. I have a friend who was a Navy Seal and my comments about running the team like a platoon of Navy Seals is tongue-in-cheek-- but if you don't like personal-foul penalties, I don't think you'd appreciate my friend's attitude when he feels challenged. .

It just seems like you've been uncharacteristically tough on the new coach, to the point that one has to wonder if there is some sort of personal problem between you and the coach.

We all love Stig and I hold him in very high regard. But you may have forgotten some of the history of penalty problems during Stig's tenure. Eventually those problems were wrestled under control. I'm confident the current coaching staff will address the penalties. I also think that the target on SDSU's back attracts not only the opposing players but also the refs who desire to facilitate a "fair game" but that desire sometimes seems to adjust in favor of a weaker team. This weekend's game with SIU had clear examples of some goofy calls by the refs (and, sure, some examples of correct calls by the refs). The Jacks were penalized for infractions that were ignored when the other team did them. That's just my observation -- I'm not making excuses and have no standing to make excuses.

I haven't heard the coach make any excuses for actual penalies commited. It has been clear to me that he doesn't like penalties and wants them reduced. I strongly disagree with the following statement you made: . "[I]Now that we won a singular championship we seem like we are trying to be Miami Hurricanes, and that worries me." [/I] I think the opposite is the case: Our team knows that it is far from what NDSU has accomplished and we're just taking one step at a time in building the program. If we win a second national title, that still doesn't merit mention in the same paragaph that describes the Bison. I think we should all be impressed about how this team practically ignored the transfer portal (yes, I know we lost two or three from the roster) after last season and instead committed to return to be a part of the team and give their best to try and finish #1.

You shouldn't "snooze" your opinions as you put it. But when an opinion is stated in a forum of this nature, expect someone to have a different opinion.

could not agree more JD very well stated
and Salem, as far as i recall i have not had any significant disagreement with your perspective in the past. i think if people remember, i have been about as loud a supporter of Coach Stig as anyone and i could NOT agree more with your opinion regarding him!!!

that said, i really was NOT ready for Stig to retire. i have my doubt that he really was either. i will go to my grave believing that Stig retired when he did to help Jimmy. i believe he thinks all of his players like his kids and i think Jimmy is one of the most beloved kids for Stig in all of his long tenure. i believe he retired when he did to leave Jimmy with the strongest possible roster and NOT having to take over after possibly back to back champs with a lot of established players gone. (even though the cupboard will still be FULL of very talented players, they will not be as accomplished as the group that is going to be leaving this spring)

point being if Stig believed THAT MUCH in Jimmy, and you trust and respect Stig as much as you report, then i would think you could give BOTH Stig and Jimmy a bit of benefit of the doubt.

and for ALL those acting like this team is UNDISICIPLINED ( Salem is not alone. AZ and others) take a step back please. the penalties are not wanted by ANYONE, Jimmy VERY OBVIOUSLY included, but they are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT NOT a sign of a team that lacks discipline
i feel like Mason is the face of the penalty issue (NOT to say he is the only one getting penalties by any means!!!!!!!) but he is a good example. he is just a top percent intense player. TRULY the type of player we lacked for a LONG TIME. the type of player that was always at NDSU. he has a nasty streak when he plays FOR SURE. and i agree with Jimmy that they NEVER NEVER want to coach that out of him

but i have seen Mason since he was a freshman in high school. he was a goofy kid who NEVER looked like someone you thought would likely be going to the NFL. and he did not turn himself into this player by being UNDISCIPLINED!!! he has worked his behind off for YEARS and YEARS!!!!!!!!!! he has actually been a walking breathing definition of discipline. and that is the exact same story of basically the entire team!!! their dedication and discipline to answering EVERY challenge put in front of them and doing EVERYTHING they have to do BOTH on game day and in EVERY other minute of their schedule proves that their discipline is truly beyond question

the penalties can be a LOT of things. some have already given theories. JD had a great theory about this week and the keystone refs. plenty of the penalties upon outside review after the game HAVE BEEN called out as WRONG. these are not excuses they are facts
but whatever the penalties show it is not lack of discipline. they are an issue that the entire team coaches included are definitely aware of and making plans and daily efforts to address

everything i know about Jimmy- he has very very much the same character and integrity and values that Stig has. there is absolutely zero reason to doubt it or question it. he is just a much more intense individual who does not talk publicly about loving everyone and easily show the same emotions that Stig does. but zero chance that Stig hand picks him to be the successor unless he believes in him as a person