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NCAA FCS semi-final: vs Montana State

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Cats2506 View Post
    What is the deal with your attendance. Your a successful team at the top of the FCS, and have been for years, good facilities, good stable coaching staff, obviously have university administrative support, no FBS teams in the area. I would expect you to have a fanbase like NDSU, MSU or UM. Must be some factor that I am not seeing.
    It’s growing a lot and our regular season attendance was our best ever this year. Sold out two non-marker games (which usually only happens when we play NDSU), had over 15000 for every other game except for ISU. But playoffs are a struggle for our fan base, and no one knows exactly why. It’s some combination of fans not being used to going to cold December games and not making playoff football a priority in December over other things. Compared to the other schools you mentioned, we have a good and growing fan base and may well be on that same level in a few year time, but our fan base is much more casual for football than our program deserves.

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    • #17
      Attendance will be better this game. Brand recognition matters. Nobody knows where Holy Cross is, what their mascot is, or even what their colors were. People recognize Montana State, and there will be at least 10K. We better be ready to play. This is going to be a really tough game to win. Hopefully we can make some adjustments to slow down the QB run this time around.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Cats2506 View Post
        What is the deal with your attendance. Your a successful team at the top of the FCS, and have been for years, good facilities, good stable coaching staff, obviously have university administrative support, no FBS teams in the area. I would expect you to have a fanbase like NDSU, MSU or UM. Must be some factor that I am not seeing.
        This has been minimized by some, but consider the populations for cities housing the teams you mentioned;
        • Fargo = nearly 126k
        • Bozeman = 53k
        • Missoula = nearly 73.5k
        • Brookings = nearly 23.4k
        Yes, all three also have fans that commute to those games, but the Jacks rely on commuters significantly more, which means that the fans also must absorb concomitant travel costs that lower percentages of Bison, 'Cats, and Grizz fans do.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by jakejc795 View Post

          This has been minimized by some, but consider the populations for cities housing the teams you mentioned;
          • Fargo = nearly 126k
          • Bozeman = 53k
          • Missoula = nearly 73.5k
          • Brookings = nearly 23.4k
          Yes, all three also have fans that commute to those games, but the Jacks rely on commuters significantly more, which means that the fans also must absorb concomitant travel costs that lower percentages of Bison, 'Cats, and Grizz fans do.
          You are correct. 23K, not all are jacks fans. Not all are into football. Not all are capable of attending a game. It really whittles down quickly. And when you commute to a game, somethings gotta give. Casual fans are not traveling fro.SF to Brookings. Die hard fans have to make a choice between family/kid activities and going g to a game. The entire playoffs I am out because of kids activities, and I know that's the same for a lot of diehards around my age
          With fans like this who needs enemas.....

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          • #20
            Originally posted by jakejc795 View Post

            This has been minimized by some, but consider the populations for cities housing the teams you mentioned;
            • Fargo = nearly 126k
            • Bozeman = 53k
            • Missoula = nearly 73.5k
            • Brookings = nearly 23.4k
            Yes, all three also have fans that commute to those games, but the Jacks rely on commuters significantly more, which means that the fans also must absorb concomitant travel costs that lower percentages of Bison, 'Cats, and Grizz fans do.
            Didn't realize that Brookings was that much smaller of a population base. The Montana schools typically have 50% of the people at games that travel for games (100 - 500+ miles.) Bozeman population has exploded in the last 10 years, that has made us sellout most regular season games the last few years.

            I am hoping we can get a couple thousand to the game this week, we have quite a few alumni in the Minneapolis area that will be there, its actually close for an away playoff game, especially for the Eastern Montana fans in Billings ect ... I haven't heard yet if there are any charters, should find out sometime today. Usually we are able to get 1-3 charters for away playoff games.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by jakejc795 View Post

              This has been minimized by some, but consider the populations for cities housing the teams you mentioned;
              • Fargo = nearly 126k
              • Bozeman = 53k
              • Missoula = nearly 73.5k
              • Brookings = nearly 23.4k
              Yes, all three also have fans that commute to those games, but the Jacks rely on commuters significantly more, which means that the fans also must absorb concomitant travel costs that lower percentages of Bison, 'Cats, and Grizz fans do.
              This, but even more exaggerated because the numbers you list are just the city populations and don't include the nearby areas. Cass county has another 60k. Missoula county another 50k. Gallatin county has another 70k. Brookings county only has 10k more. The population base is down in Sioux Falls and my experience is that casual fans there don't really care to travel to watch anything in person, even if alumni (SDSU or USD).

              There really isn't a good comparison to the situation in Montana. Yes, similar population state, two FCS universities, no FBS in state, but the population in proximity to the schools is, in my opinion, the big driver. Despite Sioux Falls being much bigger than any Montana city, they're not going to be driving up en masse for a playoff game in December.

              There is another factor that I think is an issue (in my opinion). Casual sports fans in SD who are unaffiliated with the universities don't care one bit about the sports there. They either are fans of the pro teams in the Cities or fans of Minnesota, Iowa, and/or Nebraska. Casual sports fans in Montana will still have picked Griz or Cats. The culture around the football teams in Montana absolutely permeates the state and has for a long time. I know of SDSU alumni who have gone to a handful of Jacks football games in their lives, but catch almost every Nebraska game they can on TV, despite never having gone to school there.

              But as Mr._Tibbs said, it is growing so I'm hopeful that we can start putting big crowds in the stadium for the playoffs.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Bozemaniac View Post



                There is another factor that I think is an issue (in my opinion). Casual sports fans in SD who are unaffiliated with the universities don't care one bit about the sports there. They either are fans of the pro teams in the Cities or fans of Minnesota, Iowa, and/or Nebraska. Casual sports fans in Montana will still have picked Griz or Cats. The culture around the football teams in Montana absolutely permeates the state and has for a long time. I know of SDSU alumni who have gone to a handful of Jacks football games in their lives, but catch almost every Nebraska game they can on TV, despite never having gone to school there.

                .

                This is a big deal. Lincoln NE is less than 4 hours from Sioux Falls. Lots of people I know in SE SD go to at least one Husker game annually (yes, even when they are terrible). This includes SDSU alumni that never go to SDSU games. Nebraska was a power program in our backyard for decades while SDSU was barely making a peep in D2. That seems to have sealed the deal with the casual football fans we need to get to Brookings. There was progress this fall for sure, but apparently not enough that the non-diehards are willing to sit outside in December. It's too bad - they're missing out.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Theee Catrabbit View Post

                  You are correct. 23K, not all are jacks fans. Not all are into football. Not all are capable of attending a game. It really whittles down quickly. And when you commute to a game, somethings gotta give. Casual fans are not traveling fro.SF to Brookings. Die hard fans have to make a choice between family/kid activities and going g to a game. The entire playoffs I am out because of kids activities, and I know that's the same for a lot of diehards around my age
                  That's one of the most disappointing things for me. I'll drive up to the game and think it's awesome seeing scores of "Bring The Blue" Jacks signs, banners, etfc. and wonder how many of those folks aren't attending games.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cats2506 View Post

                    Didn't realize that Brookings was that much smaller of a population base. The Montana schools typically have 50% of the people at games that travel for games (100 - 500+ miles.) Bozeman population has exploded in the last 10 years, that has made us sellout most regular season games the last few years.

                    I am hoping we can get a couple thousand to the game this week, we have quite a few alumni in the Minneapolis area that will be there, its actually close for an away playoff game, especially for the Eastern Montana fans in Billings ect ... I haven't heard yet if there are any charters, should find out sometime today. Usually we are able to get 1-3 charters for away playoff games.
                    I'd be fascinated to see research on attributes such as commuter percentage vs. local area event attendees, etc. even for the subsample we're discussing.

                    For instance, let's say 1/3 of the Jacks fans attending at least five games per season are commuting from at least 50 miles from Brookings, might that temper posts on opponents' forums about how "pathetic" the crowds are were we to find that only 15 percent of 'Cats fans commute that distance?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Bozemaniac View Post

                      This, but even more exaggerated because the numbers you list are just the city populations and don't include the nearby areas. Cass county has another 60k. Missoula county another 50k. Gallatin county has another 70k. Brookings county only has 10k more. The population base is down in Sioux Falls and my experience is that casual fans there don't really care to travel to watch anything in person, even if alumni (SDSU or USD).

                      There really isn't a good comparison to the situation in Montana. Yes, similar population state, two FCS universities, no FBS in state, but the population in proximity to the schools is, in my opinion, the big driver. Despite Sioux Falls being much bigger than any Montana city, they're not going to be driving up en masse for a playoff game in December.

                      There is another factor that I think is an issue (in my opinion). Casual sports fans in SD who are unaffiliated with the universities don't care one bit about the sports there. They either are fans of the pro teams in the Cities or fans of Minnesota, Iowa, and/or Nebraska. Casual sports fans in Montana will still have picked Griz or Cats. The culture around the football teams in Montana absolutely permeates the state and has for a long time. I know of SDSU alumni who have gone to a handful of Jacks football games in their lives, but catch almost every Nebraska game they can on TV, despite never having gone to school there.

                      But as Mr._Tibbs said, it is growing so I'm hopeful that we can start putting big crowds in the stadium for the playoffs.
                      I'd be curious about the number of "casual" sports fans in places like Sioux Falls who opt to attend games at USF or Augie because they only need to drive 15mins and pay half the price they might to attend Jacks games.

                      Having said that, I think the "blue state" vs "red state" sports rhetoric could be beneficial because it can encourage folks to pick a side. Then again, maybe they'll all be outliers like the dude I saw at HyVee today wearing a Bison hoodie

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by jakejc795 View Post

                        I'd be fascinated to see research on attributes such as commuter percentage vs. local area event attendees, etc. even for the subsample we're discussing.

                        For instance, let's say 1/3 of the Jacks fans attending at least five games per season are commuting from at least 50 miles from Brookings, might that temper posts on opponents' forums about how "pathetic" the crowds are were we to find that only 15 percent of 'Cats fans commute that distance?
                        I actually did a sort of report on this years ago in a class. MSU, UM, NDSU, and UND all have lower populations in their periphery (more than 100 miles) from the home team than SDSU and USD. But USD and SDSU have much lower populations within 35 miles than all of those teams. I think plenty of Montana fans drove great distances to get to their games, more than many Jacks fans. But there is no question all of those other schools have a more local fan base population to pull from in their towns than SDSU or USD.

                        All that being said, it’s no excuse. Fans drive from Helena and Billings through passes to get to Griz and Bobcat games and that’s a lot farther and more treacherous than driving an hour from Sioux Falls in the interstate. So until we activate the Sioux Falls metro and can count on 10k per game coming up, what we see in the playoffs is the die hards who will be there no matter what and the locals that live in and around Brookings, which is much smaller than Bozeman, Missoula, Fargo, and Grand Forks.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by jakejc795 View Post

                          I'd be curious about the number of "casual" sports fans in places like Sioux Falls who opt to attend games at USF or Augie because they only need to drive 15mins and pay half the price they might to attend Jacks games.

                          Having said that, I think the "blue state" vs "red state" sports rhetoric could be beneficial because it can encourage folks to pick a side. Then again, maybe they'll all be outliers like the dude I saw at HyVee today wearing a Bison hoodie
                          If they are "casual" fans, they likely sit on the couch and watch games on TV, or go to bars to socialize and watch.

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                          • #28
                            Montana State have any injuries???

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Mr_Tibbs View Post

                              I actually did a sort of report on this years ago in a class. MSU, UM, NDSU, and UND all have lower populations in their periphery (more than 100 miles) from the home team than SDSU and USD. But USD and SDSU have much lower populations within 35 miles than all of those teams. I think plenty of Montana fans drove great distances to get to their games, more than many Jacks fans. But there is no question all of those other schools have a more local fan base population to pull from in their towns than SDSU or USD.

                              All that being said, it’s no excuse. Fans drive from Helena and Billings through passes to get to Griz and Bobcat games and that’s a lot farther and more treacherous than driving an hour from Sioux Falls in the interstate. So until we activate the Sioux Falls metro and can count on 10k per game coming up, what we see in the playoffs is the die hards who will be there no matter what and the locals that live in and around Brookings, which is much smaller than Bozeman, Missoula, Fargo, and Grand Forks.
                              Your assumption seems to be that a greater percentage of their fans commute than Jacks fans, and I haven't seen research demonstrating that. You may very well be correct, but it could also be that the majority reside in locales nearer their universities.

                              Limiting this to Sioux Falls -- there are two universities there that could pull fans from Jacks games due to reduced expense, and if the choice is between USD and SDSU, they may opt to go south to stay indoors.

                              If your argument is that those factors (two local universities) are also present in MT, I'd question that. Sure, Helena has Carroll College, but I think their intervening variables impacting commuter attendance differ. Notice anything else these Montana cities share? They're all along interstates. Now, if your assumption about their "fan commuter" percentage dwarfing Jacks' is correct, then we need to adapt the approach. That adaptation could involve conceding that overreliance on winning Sioux Falls is a suspect strategy.

                              Conversely, if we're finding that "commuter" fans, particularly those attending playoff games, are traveling from distances equal to or exceeding that from Sioux Falls to Brookings, then we'd need to ask how we might be able to reduce attrition among the "local" fans who attended games earlier in the season.

                              I'll say this, on my drives to games from Sioux Falls, I'm always passed by at least a dozen vehicles with Jacks window/license plate decals bearing SD Minnehaha, Lincoln, and Yankton County, NE, and IA plates. Yes, I'm generally driving 80, so they must be in a hurry to get there.

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                              • #30
                                A major difference between South Dakotans and Montanans is the willingness to drive. Montana is such a big state it’s nothing to drive 2, 3, or 4 hours one way. My hometown is 120 miles from Brookings. Not a ton of people willing to make that drive. In Montana you’ve got people that routinely make the pilgrimage from Billings to Missoula or Bozeangeles.

                                Also our program is in its relative infancy in FCS. And prior to FCS we just weren’t terribly successful to build a rabid base like NDSU.

                                Attendance has improved consistently.

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