Thoughts about moving up to FBS

[filbert]

How strict is the NCAA in the 15000 average attendance deal? There are only a few MVFC schools who would meet that requirement. Heck, USD can't even seat 10,000 if they were ever sell a game out.

That's one of the division-specific requirements that I think that the big football schools are trying to get delegated from the NCAA down to their "Our Football Programs Are Too Big For The NCAA" Division ("Too Big Division" for short). Then they can set it at 25,000 or 35,000 average attendance per game as one of the criteria to qualify in the Too Big Division. The big criterion however will be, I suspect, membership in one of the Too Big Conferences (you know, like that NCAA rule that Augie has found terribly awkward to get around in their quest to be D-I).

Those pesky MACs and MWCs and Sun Belts and C-USAs having been weeded out of the big boys' private party, the sixty or so now-FBS schools which are frozen out of the Too Big Division will get to/have to organize their own new Division I (or whatever) under the NCAA. They might be okay just staying at around 60 schools in their division, or they will look to add some number of the more healthy FCS programs in some way. If they want to add more than three or four FCS programs, the 15,000 average attendance requirement will need to be modified.

But take this with the large grain of salt, representing the fact that I'm pulling this completely out of thin air. I don't think anybody really knows what college football at all levels will look like this time next year. The changes could be minimal, or the changes could be significant.

[mnjackrbt]

Without getting into the financials, title ix, etc... I am not in favor of moving up to FBS. I would rather be the big fish in the little pool and compete for national championships than the little fish in the big pool and compete for weeknight TV games and undervalued bowl games. That said, if all the top FCS teams move up, is an FCS title still a "big deal"? Does the FCS just become a slightly better D2? I still want quality football to be played, and hopefully that can still happen at the FCS level.

[FrontRowObserver]

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Last point, agree with a previous poster that I think SDSU fits best with New Mexico, Colorado St, Utah St, & Wyoming as larger state institutions in the fly-over states. The travel isn't ideal but would like to see a conference of:
Colorado State, Utah State, New Mexico, Wyoming, Montana, Montana State, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Idaho and Nevada.

I don't know much about Univ of Wyoming, but if they can have an FBS football team and be part of a 'Group of Five' conference, why can't SDSU?

Those schools are very largely subsidized by their state tax dollars (especially Wyoming). Their budgets are at a minimum twice the size of ours. And in the case of Wyoming, they are the only show in town. They get 24,000+ per game because they are the only football team (or university) in the state. The only way we go FBS is to drag the great caravan from Sioux Falls. We need to get better commitment from the fan base. With only 19,000 seats, sellouts need to be the norm.

[gabe01]

How strict is the NCAA in the 15000 average attendance deal? There are only a few MVFC schools who would meet that requirement. Heck, USD can't even seat 10,000 if they were ever sell a game out.

Here's a good article
https://www.wmbfnews.com/2019/12/17/...rs-calculated/

It's paid attendance, not actual butts in seats. Even your students and band members count.

How closely is it enforced? Not very. Technically you have to average 15k paid every other year.

Coastal Carolina was way below that number in FCS and they built an addition.

Last week they played a Conference Game on ESPN prime time vs Appalachian State as the #11 ranked team in the nation

If it was enforced, the MAC would have lost 25% of their teams

Besides you guys hit that vs something called Dixie State and Lindenwood. NDSU hit it vs VALPARAISO

That would make USD and UND ineligible.

[Jacks#1Fan]

A quick and short comment.: There is no way a university in a city of 24,000 (counting some students) should ever think of leaving the FSC football division for FBS competition....period!! If NDSU wants to go...great. I won't miss them. They have the local population which gives them a huge advantage, which is one of the major problems we have in competing in football with them. Just to get 15,000 fans to Brookings in great weather is a problem for half of our games. We are doing great in the FCS....and I am quite sure we will be just fine where we are at.

[UWMandSDSU]

FBS schools in a city population <24,000 (https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comment...ollment_and/):
Appalachian State (Boone, NC)
Army (West Point, NY)
Clemson, SC (Clemson, SC)
Coastal Carolina (Conway, SC)
Connecticut (East Hartford, CT)
Eastern Michigan (Ypsilanti, MI)
Louisiana Tech (Ruston, LA)
Miami OH (Oxford, OH)
Ole Miss (Oxford, MS)
Ohio (Athens, OH)
Penn State (University Park, PA)
SMU (University Park, TX)
Troy (Troy, AL)
UMASS (Hadley, MA)

*I am not advocating for a move to FBS. Just providing some research.

[da_coach]

I am not in favor of moving to FBS in it's current form.

IF, however, like Filbert mentioned...the Power 5 conferences leave and start their own division. I could see SDSU move up with the rest in his Div I-A scenario.

But that is the only time I would be in favor of it.

I think NDSU should go. Now. Why wait, except for a conference invitation. I'm serious. They should go. With what they have done at our current level, they deserve to move up a class. It's like in the English soccer leagues... you can move up or move down... Move em up!

[filbert]

FBS schools in a city population <24,000 (https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comment...ollment_and/):
Appalachian State (Boone, NC)
Army (West Point, NY)
Clemson, SC (Clemson, SC)
Coastal Carolina (Conway, SC)
Connecticut (East Hartford, CT)
Eastern Michigan (Ypsilanti, MI)
Louisiana Tech (Ruston, LA)
Miami OH (Oxford, OH)
Ole Miss (Oxford, MS)
Ohio (Athens, OH)
Penn State (University Park, PA)
SMU (University Park, TX)
Troy (Troy, AL)
UMASS (Hadley, MA)

*I am not advocating for a move to FBS. Just providing some research.

I think the criterion isn't necessarily just population of the city where the university is, it's population within say 50 miles (an easy hour's drive). Almost all of Sioux Falls is just beyond that 50 mile radius for SDSU.

[JACKGUYII]

A quick and short comment.: There is no way a university in a city of 24,000 (counting some students) should ever think of leaving the FSC football division for FBS competition....period!! If NDSU wants to go...great. I won't miss them. They have the local population which gives them a huge advantage, which is one of the major problems we have in competing in football with them. Just to get 15,000 fans to Brookings in great weather is a problem for half of our games. We are doing great in the FCS....and I am quite sure we will be just fine where we are at.

I'm estatic about what we have done at the FCS level since we have moved up and give all the credit to the administration, coaches, donors and players for their role in improving the product and facilities. However some of that success is because some of the better programs have or are moving up to FBS. I repeat population or enrollment has nothing to do with success on the field. Were you also against moving up to FCS? I agree with Filbert that there will be a new subdivision soon and we should be prepared to be part of it and not just be happy with where we are at as the landscape is changing.

[ringthebells]

I just read a 23 page thread on Bisonville about the subject. There are some great reasons to move if what is being said is true. I have no idea what is real and what is just people hoping to make a move. Definitely something an AD should be looking at and potentially prepare for. The conference changes are going to really mess with stuff. A war chest might be needed to stay relevant.

[da_coach]

I just read a 23 page thread on Bisonville about the subject. There are some great reasons to move if what is being said is true. I have no idea what is real and what is just people hoping to make a move. Definitely something an AD should be looking at and potentially prepare for. The conference changes are going to really mess with stuff. A war chest might be needed to stay relevant.

You read a 23 page thread on Bisonville on purpose?

No way I can submit myself to that. I read 1 page of the SDSU game thread, and had enough. There's so much chest thumping on that board, you'd swear those guys were the actual players.

[ringthebells]

You read a 23 page thread on Bisonville on purpose?

No way I can submit myself to that. I read 1 page of the SDSU game thread, and had enough. There's so much chest thumping on that board, you'd swear those guys were the actual players.

Haha! I'm not proud of it, but it was an all day affair as I watched football. Turns out they are as big of a-holes to each other as they are to everyone else. Lots of different takes on potential conference scenarios. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

[jakejc795]

Haha! I'm not proud of it, but it was an all day affair as I watched football. Turns out they are as big of a-holes to each other as they are to everyone else. Lots of different takes on potential conference scenarios. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

You deserve at least a gallon of the SDSU ice cream flavor(s) of your choice for enduring that masochism.

[jakejc795]

I'm estatic about what we have done at the FCS level since we have moved up and give all the credit to the administration, coaches, donors and players for their role in improving the product and facilities. However some of that success is because some of the better programs have or are moving up to FBS. I repeat population or enrollment has nothing to do with success on the field. Were you also against moving up to FCS? I agree with Filbert that there will be a new subdivision soon and we should be prepared to be part of it and not just be happy with where we are at as the landscape is changing.

What are you basing that statement on?

The Jacks have competed with teams like Missouri State, UNI, NDSU, Nebraska, Minnesota, Iowa, and Iowa State for recruits. None of those teams have changed subdivisions (and neither have JMU or SHSU, who are/are rumored to be on the move to FBS)

[jakejc795]

I think the criterion isn't necessarily just population of the city where the university is, it's population within say 50 miles (an easy hour's drive). Almost all of Sioux Falls is just beyond that 50 mile radius for SDSU.

TV Designated Market Areas (DMAs) are sometimes used as a proxy measure by those who are "researching" FCS to FBS moves.