Keep in mind, our players read this board

[CatchEmAll]

Re: Keep in mind, our players read this board

Playing devil's advocate...here's a quick observation. If our players read this board, and put any merit to what is said, don't the comments along the lines of "we only have 42 scholarships so that's why we can't compete" give the players reason to justify a lack of success. Why should our players put forth any effort against teams with more scholarships if they can't compete because of SDSU's lack of numbers?

I know what I said has no merit, but it could be construed to have some merit by someone who needs an excuse as to why SDSU can't compete.

Oh wait, let me switch this another way. Our MBB and WBB teams have the same number of scholarships as every other NCAA DI team, so therefore should we be more pissed at Nagy and AJ when their teams can't compete with some of the teams they face. Oh, right, different calibur of athletes at some schools. Too bad that isn't true for our FB team. A football player is a football player is a football player, right?

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: Keep in mind, our players read this board

not really following you catch em, but maybe my head is just hurting from listening to this beat down we are taking. ???

[filbert]

Re: Keep in mind, our players read this board

Playing devil's advocate...here's a quick observation. If our players read this board, and put any merit to what is said, don't the comments along the lines of "we only have 42 scholarships so that's why we can't compete" give the players reason to justify a lack of success. Why should our players put forth any effort against teams with more scholarships if they can't compete because of SDSU's lack of numbers?

I know what I said has no merit, but it could be construed to have some merit by someone who needs an excuse as to why SDSU can't compete.

Oh wait, let me switch this another way. Our MBB and WBB teams have the same number of scholarships as every other NCAA DI team, so therefore should we be more pissed at Nagy and AJ when their teams can't compete with some of the teams they face. Oh, right, different calibur of athletes at some schools. Too bad that isn't true for our FB team. A football player is a football player is a football player, right?

That would be me (at least). I don't think it's a contradiction to 1) expect that players put out their best effort and 2) realize that football is to an extent a game of attrition.

You put your best 22 on the field against the other guys and go at it. Sometimes, your guys get nicked. Sometimes, their guys get nicked. By the end of the season, who has the most "good" guys left? More scholarships = more good guys.

And, I do expect Nagy's and AJ's teams to compete with the best of them next year--mainly because that's exactly what the D-I move is about. "Compete" as in play smart and put out maximum effort, whether they're playing Kentucky or Southwest Minnesota.

I don't expect them to win every game, although that's what I'd like. I do expect them to compete consistently, though.

How's that?

[CatchEmAll]

Re: Keep in mind, our players read this board

This thread was started to point out that our players and coaches should get support and encouragement no matter what. That's fine if someone feels that way.

My point, which I knew wasn't very clear but I posted anyway, is that by continually bringing up the fact that "we played a good game, but lot because we only have 42 scholarships" kind of makes it sound like it's OK to lose because we have less scholarships. So if a player reads this board they can then justify loses by saying "we played good, but can't expect to win because we have less scholarships".

By throwing in the stuff about our basketball teams I'm basically trying to point out that it doesn't matter how many scholarships we have, some teams just have better athletes then we do and therefore are going to lay the smack down.

Personally, as a player, I'll nut up and say we just weren't good enough. Period. I don't care how many scholarships the other guy has. From my own experience, in '93 when Montana beat us not once do I remember saying, "they had more scholarships so that's why they scored the winning TD with 41 seconds left". They made more plays to win, and we were pissed that we didn't win. Just like any other game.

[filbert]

Re: Keep in mind, our players read this board

This thread was started to point out that our players and coaches should get support and encouragement no matter what. That's fine if someone feels that way.

My point, which I knew wasn't very clear but I posted anyway, is that by continually bringing up the fact that "we played a good game, but lot because we only have 42 scholarships" kind of makes it sound like it's OK to lose because we have less scholarships. So if a player reads this board they can then justify loses by saying "we played good, but can't expect to win because we have less scholarships".

By throwing in the stuff about our basketball teams I'm basically trying to point out that it doesn't matter how many scholarships we have, some teams just have better athletes then we do and therefore are going to lay the smack down.

Personally, as a player, I'll nut up and say we just weren't good enough. Period. I don't care how many scholarships the other guy has. From my own experience, in '93 when Montana beat us not once do I remember saying, "they had more scholarships so that's why they scored the winning TD with 41 seconds left". They made more plays to win, and we were pissed that we didn't win. Just like any other game.

I think fans have more trouble saying "we just got beat today" than players do sometimes. The players have the benefit of some control over their destiny. The fans don't, so they (er, we) cast about for "reasons" which sometimes turns into "let's blame the quarterback (or whoever)."

But as you say, at a basic level, sports are pretty simple. Make more plays than your opponent, you'll probably win.

The trick is to make more plays--something the players have to do, not the fans.

So here we are, talking about it.

[jackmd]

Re: Keep in mind, our players read this board

This thread was started to point out that our players and coaches should get support and encouragement no matter what.  That's fine if someone feels that way.

My point, which I knew wasn't very clear but I posted anyway, is that by continually bringing up the fact that "we played a good game, but lot because we only have 42 scholarships" kind of makes it sound like it's OK to lose because we have less scholarships.  So if a player reads this board they can then justify loses by saying "we played good, but can't expect to win because we have less scholarships".

By throwing in the stuff about our basketball teams I'm basically trying to point out that it doesn't matter how many scholarships we have, some teams just have better athletes then we do and therefore are going to lay the smack down.  

Personally, as a player, I'll nut up and say we just weren't good enough. Period. I don't care how many scholarships the other guy has.  From my own experience, in '93 when Montana beat us not once do I remember saying, "they had more scholarships so that's why they scored the winning TD with 41 seconds left".  They made more plays to win, and we were pissed that we didn't win. Just like any other game.

I share this attitude. Scholarships alone don't make an athlete and don't make a team. There is a plan in place to fully fund scholarships. Its well thought out and will be what is best for SDSU as a whole. Not trying to make excuses Catch'em just looking for explanations.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: Keep in mind, our players read this board

I guess if we are looking for an excuse, I would go with the weather. Its 80-90 degrees down their and the texas guys could suck it up better and play their best game.  We could not especially on defense, we just were never in the game.   This is a tough schedule and not having a full load of scholies hurts but when the momentum of the game is not going your way, you dont win. : We never established momentum on O or D.

[CatchEmAll]

Re: Keep in mind, our players read this board

We played Montana and Cal-Poly to within 8 points with only 42 scholarships. Would 23 more scholarships have made us 8 points better? How many total players from each team saw action during those two games? 11 each on offense and defense (=22), plus 20 substitutions (which is too many, but works), equals 42 players. So in theory, our 42 scholarship players are almost as good as Montana and Cal-Poly's top 42 players. I realize that by having 23 more scholarships there's a bigger pool of players to get your top 42 from, so don't bother bringing that up. And I know we're only in our second year of IAA, so in theory we only have two recruiting classes of IAA calibur players. But, Stig and the staff knew the move was inevitable so they were recruiting atleast a year ahead, so we have three classes of IAA players. Oh, and it seems like the old NCC was always referred to the best DII conference in the nation, and some even said it could compete with IAA schools. So in theory (not necessarily in practice), but in theory we had IAA calibur players before we even made the move.

As you can tell I'm pretty bitter after these three losses. I expect more from this program than most on this board (other former players excluded). So to me, a loss is a loss is a loss. I could give a rip if we only had 20 scholarships, if we're going to field a team I expect a W. When they come close, great, it's still an L. When they get their asses whipped like tonight I get pissed and start questioning from the top down. This f'ing chatboard just gives me an outlet for my frustrations. Sorry if I've offended or if you feel I'm singling you out.

[CatchEmAll]

Re: Keep in mind, our players read this board

Why do you guys type faster than me. I hit post and there are four posts in from the time I hit reply to post. Damn you for making me feel like I'm too bitter :-[

[filbert]

Re: Keep in mind, our players read this board

I'm not offended at all.

I have lots of opinions. Some of them are correct. Don't expect anything different from anyone else.

[jackmd]

Re: Keep in mind, our players read this board

No tolerance for losses eventually needs to be the norm at the DI level but understanding has to temper some of that desire early on. Its not happening overnight.

[CatchEmAll]

Re: Keep in mind, our players read this board

I share this attitude.  Scholarships alone don't make an athlete and don't make a team.  There is a plan in place to fully fund scholarships.  Its well thought out and will be what is best for SDSU as a whole.  Not trying to make excuses Catch'em just looking for explanations.

I just hope everyone realizes that ramping up FB scholarships won't be easy. Big thing called Title IX that needs to be watched very closely. I don't remember the plan exactly, but I think the original plan added the same number of men's and women's scholarships each year until we reached 63 in FB. Plus, how do you explain to wrestling, baseball, golf, track or swimming that, sorry, we've got to get FB to 63 before you get anymore. That's one thing I believe Fred said he wouldn't do.

[filbert]

Re: Keep in mind, our players read this board

I'm on board with the whole "move all the programs to D-I together" program.

Football is the main reason SDSU is adding equestrian. When you look at the equestrian team, you're seeing the scholarships that SDSU will be able to add to the football team.

SDSU is going D-I, not just the football and basketball teams. That's what I want, and that's what I'm seeing.

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: Keep in mind, our players read this board

I agree with you catch em that scholarships don't make the total difference but they do attract better and more talented players and that makes a team of players who hopefully don't have to say as often "i just got beat or whooped" on any given play or game.

Not to say we will fare much better when we are fully funded but scholarship limits are there for a reason and that is too level the field of competition. We also have to remember we have lost to three teams who i would guess, will probably all end up in the top 20 this year. We are not losing to the majority of D1aa, we are losing (right now anyway) to some of the top teams.

As far as expecting more from the team, i understand that as a former player that gives you a right to have your opinions about the team. But some former players don't give a rats ass about State football right now, I have seen numerous times when players will come to Coughlin from all parts of the country (maybe one time a year for the beef bowl) and then only sit out in the back yard or down at Rays and not even watch or attend the game. Maybe they are miffed because this coach got let go, we moved up a division, etc. It's their perogative, but don't say that the fans and supporters who attend every game, listen on WNAX, etc can't have the same expectation as you or the former players. especially the fans on this board as you pretty much preaching to the choir.

No offense to you catch em, just getting stuff off my chest as well.

[mmiller_34]

Re: Keep in mind, our players read this board

was i attacking paula by asking a question? :-[