Pride won't play at November games?

[tattoo]

Re: Pride won't play at November games?

This is a Football Thread! Not a BAND THREAD. Let's move this and take football.

[pb]

Re: Pride won't play at November games?

I'm guessing a lot of people haven't thought about what happens to instruments in the cold weather. Keep in mind instruments are designed to perform at room temperature. As the temperature goes up or down, instruments just don't work the same way. Brass instruments go flat in colder weather and at sufficiently cold temperatures, the valves freeze. By blowing warm air into the instrument, it will unfreeze for a short time, but keep in mind, your breath is air and water vapor. So you're just adding more water vapor into the instrument making for a worse problem when it freezes again in a few minutes. Mallet percussion instruments go sharp in colder temperatures. Can you see where this is going (some instruments go sharp + some instruments go flat = a band that sounds like crap)? That only describes the physical difficulties of the instruments themselves. Just imagine what it would be like to continually get your lips moist for the entire football game. That is what brass players deal with whenever the band plays in the temperature range of 20-40 degrees. It's not fun, and a week later when your lips still hurt, it's still not fun.

McKinney has spent the last 20+years building the band to the point it is at. Is it really a good idea to go out in front of potentially the biggest crowd of the year (NDSU) knowing that the instruments are not capable of producing a good sounding band at that temperature? All it takes is one or two bad performances to ruin the public perception of the band. That is the last time most people will hear the band that year. The last two one or two bad performances is what everyone will remember about the band. This is a really bad analogy, but I think you'll get the point. We wouldn't want the football team to go to the last two home games every year with their muscles (comparison to instruments) not working properly. Let's say that their muscles weren't working properly because of the cold weather. The quarterback and the kicker have probablems with their aim (off anywhere from 25% left of the target to 25% right of the target, but not consistently one direction or the other). Sometimes the quarterback's arm freezes in place during the middle of a play and all he can do is rub it with the other hand to try to warm it up. Meanwhile, the other team has no difficulties at all (comparison to the same band from several weeks ago). If that's what happened in football, no one would want to have football games in November in SD because it was pretty much a guaranteed loss. The band doesn't have an opponent to go against, only the bands own past performances. Most spectators would hear how bad the band sounds compared to several weeks ago and think the band got lazy or really wasn't that good to start with, not knowing the physics of instruments. I know that's kind of a weird analogy, but I think you can why the band doesn't get too excited for games in November. There's really no way they can win.

In Brookings, the weather is generally cold and sometime even snowy starting at the end of October. It's hard to have a rehearsal in 30 degree weather with a 15 mph wind and 3 inches of snow and ice underneath your feet. I'm guessing most people would call McKinney an idiot if the band was out there practicing in those conditions and somebody carrying a bass drum or a tuba slips on the ice and busts their head open (keep in mind, the band practices on the stadium's parking lot). As someone else pointed out, Ohio State and Michigan will have their bands at their rivalry games. I have first hand experience with Columbus, Ohio weather this past fall. I am going to grad school at Ohio State. Most of the fall, the high temps were in the 70's. I wore t-shirts and sweatshirts to school all fall, I didn't even get out my coat until about January 10th. And there was definitely no snow until January. While I was waiting for the bus to go home from school everyday, band rehearsal would finish and I would see the band kids walking back to their dorms, almost always sweating because it was still that warm outside. That's why Ohio State can have their band at the games in November. It's usually not as cold as SD for the game day, and it's not continually as cold as SD for rehearsals in the weeks before November games.

I really don't think this is some ploy to get everyone to think the band is the reason people go to games. I think 98% of the people go to watch the game, 2% go to watch their kids in the band and just don't like football. I'm sure most people enjoy seeing the band at halftime, but really, how many people decided to go to the game based on whether the band is there or not?

I realize that it's rivalry week everywhere else in the country, but if it's important to have a band at the rivalry game, maybe it shouldn't be rivalry week in the middle of November in SD, unless they build a dome. Other bands across the country maybe have to deal with this weather a couple of times a decade, at SDSU it's that cold every November. Go easy on the band, you can't blame the weather on the band and you can't blame the band for scheduling the biggest game of the year when it the mostly likely time their instruments won't work.

[GoJacks]

Re: Pride won't play at November games?

I still think the band shoud be at the NDSU game. Even if they didn't perform at halftime they should still be in the stands during the game. If it is cold that just part of the experience. Maybe we can convince the NDSU band to come and perform.

As for practicing in cold weather. its South Dakota deal with it. Maybe we should cancel the trip to the Rose Bowl because the band will not / can not practice in the cold weather in November and December. We wouldn't want them to be less than there best during the Rose Bowl Parade. Maybe the Rose Bowl parade can be held in September so the the Pride can prepare in adequate weather.

[NightHawk78]

Re: Pride won't play at November games?

A few points:

1) I understand that cold weather can be a problem for a band, but IMHO, the Pride should be scheduled to play at the NDSU, weather permitting. If the conditions are awful that day, cancel the performance...simple as that.

2) The Pride took the field last season during TGTSNBM even though the field was in horrible shape....and they only had a few days of practice at that point!

3) Columbus, OH is definitely further south than Brookings. Ann Arbor, MI (where this year's UM-OSU game will be played on 11/17) is a little warmer than Brookings at that time of year, but the potential for a chilly day is still quite possible.

4) Something else to ponder: Would the Pride turn a "hypothetical invite" to play outside when SDSU plays the Gophers on 11/14/09 at the new TCF Stadium? Or, does one think that no bands will be playing when the U of M hosts Iowa on 11/20/10?

[2002jack]

Re: Pride won't play at November games?

I'm guessing a lot of people haven't thought about what happens to instruments in the cold weather.  Keep in mind instruments are designed to perform at room temperature.  As the temperature goes up or down, instruments just don't work the same way.  Brass instruments go flat in colder weather and at sufficiently cold temperatures, the valves freeze.  By blowing warm air into the instrument, it will unfreeze for a short time, but keep in mind, your breath is air and water vapor.  So you're just adding more water vapor into the instrument making for a worse problem when it freezes again in a few minutes.  Mallet percussion instruments go sharp in colder temperatures.  Can you see where this is going (some instruments go sharp + some instruments go flat = a band that sounds like crap)?  That only describes the physical difficulties of the instruments themselves.  Just imagine what it would be like to continually get your lips moist for the entire football game.  That is what brass players deal with whenever the band plays in the temperature range of 20-40 degrees.  It's not fun, and a week later when your lips still hurt, it's still not fun.  

McKinney has spent the last 20+years building the band to the point it is at.  Is it really a good idea to go out in front of potentially the biggest crowd of the year (NDSU) knowing that the instruments are not capable of producing a good sounding band at that temperature?  All it takes is one or two bad performances to ruin the public perception of the band.  That is the last time most people will hear the band that year.  The last two one or two bad performances is what everyone will remember about the band.  This is a really bad analogy, but I think you'll get the point.  We wouldn't want the football team to go to the last two home games every year with their muscles (comparison to instruments) not working properly.  Let's say that their muscles weren't working properly because of the cold weather.  The quarterback and the kicker have probablems with their aim (off anywhere from 25% left of the target to 25% right of the target, but not consistently one direction or the other).  Sometimes the quarterback's arm freezes in place during the middle of a play and all he can do is rub it with the other hand to try to warm it up.  Meanwhile, the other team has no difficulties at all (comparison to the same band from several weeks ago).  If that's what happened in football, no one would want to have football games in November in SD because it was pretty much a guaranteed loss.  The band doesn't have an opponent to go against, only the bands own past performances.  Most spectators would hear how bad the band sounds compared to several weeks ago and think the band got lazy or really wasn't that good to start with, not knowing the physics of instruments.  I know that's kind of a weird analogy, but I think you can why the band doesn't get too excited for games in November.  There's really no way they can win.

In Brookings, the weather is generally cold and sometime even snowy starting at the end of October.  It's hard to have a rehearsal in 30 degree weather with a 15 mph wind and 3 inches of snow and ice underneath your feet.  I'm guessing most people would call McKinney an idiot if the band was out there practicing in those conditions and somebody carrying a bass drum or a tuba slips on the ice and busts their head open (keep in mind, the band practices on the stadium's parking lot).  As someone else pointed out, Ohio State and Michigan will have their bands at their rivalry games.  I have first hand experience with Columbus, Ohio weather this past fall.  I am going to grad school at Ohio State.  Most of the fall, the high temps were in the 70's.  I wore t-shirts and sweatshirts to school all fall, I didn't even get out my coat until about January 10th.  And there was definitely no snow until January.  While I was waiting for the bus to go home from school everyday, band rehearsal would finish and I would see the band kids walking back to their dorms, almost always sweating because it was still that warm outside.  That's why Ohio State can have their band at the games in November.  It's usually not as cold as SD for the game day, and it's not continually as cold as SD for rehearsals in the weeks before November games.  

I really don't think this is some ploy to get everyone to think the band is the reason people go to games.  I think 98% of the people go to watch the game, 2% go to watch their kids in the band and just don't like football.  I'm sure most people enjoy seeing the band at halftime, but really, how many people decided to go to the game based on whether the band is there or not?

I realize that it's rivalry week everywhere else in the country, but if it's important to have a band at the rivalry game, maybe it shouldn't be rivalry week in the middle of November in SD, unless they build a dome.  Other bands across the country maybe have to deal with this weather a couple of times a decade, at SDSU it's that cold every November.  Go easy on the band, you can't blame the weather on the band and you can't blame the band for scheduling the biggest game of the year when it the mostly likely time their instruments won't work.

Very long post...but pointless. I don't give an owl's hoot how good the band sounds. They should be there.

[2002jack]

Re: Pride won't play at November games?

If we put together a good season and we are playing for a conference championship (knock on wood) I gaurantee the band will be there. It wouldn't be the band director's choice.

[SDSUJack3031]

Re: Pride won't play at November games?

I'm guessing a lot of people haven't thought about what happens to instruments in the cold weather.  Keep in mind instruments are designed to perform at room temperature.  As the temperature goes up or down, instruments just don't work the same way.  Brass instruments go flat in colder weather and at sufficiently cold temperatures, the valves freeze.  By blowing warm air into the instrument, it will unfreeze for a short time, but keep in mind, your breath is air and water vapor.  So you're just adding more water vapor into the instrument making for a worse problem when it freezes again in a few minutes.  Mallet percussion instruments go sharp in colder temperatures.  Can you see where this is going (some instruments go sharp + some instruments go flat = a band that sounds like crap)?  That only describes the physical difficulties of the instruments themselves.  Just imagine what it would be like to continually get your lips moist for the entire football game.  That is what brass players deal with whenever the band plays in the temperature range of 20-40 degrees.  It's not fun, and a week later when your lips still hurt, it's still not fun.  

McKinney has spent the last 20+years building the band to the point it is at.  Is it really a good idea to go out in front of potentially the biggest crowd of the year (NDSU) knowing that the instruments are not capable of producing a good sounding band at that temperature?  All it takes is one or two bad performances to ruin the public perception of the band.  That is the last time most people will hear the band that year.  The last two one or two bad performances is what everyone will remember about the band.  This is a really bad analogy, but I think you'll get the point.  We wouldn't want the football team to go to the last two home games every year with their muscles (comparison to instruments) not working properly.  Let's say that their muscles weren't working properly because of the cold weather.  The quarterback and the kicker have probablems with their aim (off anywhere from 25% left of the target to 25% right of the target, but not consistently one direction or the other).  Sometimes the quarterback's arm freezes in place during the middle of a play and all he can do is rub it with the other hand to try to warm it up.  Meanwhile, the other team has no difficulties at all (comparison to the same band from several weeks ago).  If that's what happened in football, no one would want to have football games in November in SD because it was pretty much a guaranteed loss.  The band doesn't have an opponent to go against, only the bands own past performances.  Most spectators would hear how bad the band sounds compared to several weeks ago and think the band got lazy or really wasn't that good to start with, not knowing the physics of instruments.  I know that's kind of a weird analogy, but I think you can why the band doesn't get too excited for games in November.  There's really no way they can win.

In Brookings, the weather is generally cold and sometime even snowy starting at the end of October.  It's hard to have a rehearsal in 30 degree weather with a 15 mph wind and 3 inches of snow and ice underneath your feet.  I'm guessing most people would call McKinney an idiot if the band was out there practicing in those conditions and somebody carrying a bass drum or a tuba slips on the ice and busts their head open (keep in mind, the band practices on the stadium's parking lot).  As someone else pointed out, Ohio State and Michigan will have their bands at their rivalry games.  I have first hand experience with Columbus, Ohio weather this past fall.  I am going to grad school at Ohio State.  Most of the fall, the high temps were in the 70's.  I wore t-shirts and sweatshirts to school all fall, I didn't even get out my coat until about January 10th.  And there was definitely no snow until January.  While I was waiting for the bus to go home from school everyday, band rehearsal would finish and I would see the band kids walking back to their dorms, almost always sweating because it was still that warm outside.  That's why Ohio State can have their band at the games in November.  It's usually not as cold as SD for the game day, and it's not continually as cold as SD for rehearsals in the weeks before November games.  

I really don't think this is some ploy to get everyone to think the band is the reason people go to games.  I think 98% of the people go to watch the game, 2% go to watch their kids in the band and just don't like football.  I'm sure most people enjoy seeing the band at halftime, but really, how many people decided to go to the game based on whether the band is there or not?

I realize that it's rivalry week everywhere else in the country, but if it's important to have a band at the rivalry game, maybe it shouldn't be rivalry week in the middle of November in SD, unless they build a dome.  Other bands across the country maybe have to deal with this weather a couple of times a decade, at SDSU it's that cold every November.  Go easy on the band, you can't blame the weather on the band and you can't blame the band for scheduling the biggest game of the year when it the mostly likely time their instruments won't work.

Really lame excuse and I really hope this isn't why...band should play(weather permitting) Cancelling playing 6 months ahead of time is just ridiculous!!

[89rabbit]

Re: Pride won't play at November games?

As someone who has given to the band ($$$) in the past . . . I think they need to be there.


Go State!

[Haldersham]

Re: Pride won't play at November games?

As a very general comment, the thing I have notice most about the SDSU community and that is when a faculty member, coach, dean, you name it has a very successful thing going for them on campus, and attracts interest statewide, they tend to get kind of territorial and demanding and in some cases turn into a Dr. Worzella. In other words they like to be the tail waging the dog.

You have to be an old f@rt to get the Worzella comment, but the I think its included in the College on the Hill book.

In Professor McKinney's situation, he does not need to go underhandly to the legislature for money as donations for the band are pretty going good. I might be wrong, but dont think so. Yes I think I have made one or two dontations to the Pride, they are great.  I too hope there will be a way for the Pride to perform in November, especially if our team has a very successful season. The comments on the weather and affects on musical instruments probably have merit.
If the Gold Star band from NDSU is the only one that shows up on November 19th, thats sad. Bisonville will never let us go on that one. Don't be surprise if they show up in Brookings.

I dont know if it is this coming year or not, but if they are going to appear in the Rose Bowl parade, it seems like November practice would help out on Jan 1.

[wr54]

Re: Pride won't play at November games?

Ok, there are some things that need to be righted! As a second year Pride member, I have to say that I have always thought the collegiate marching band as part of football, and I love both to death. I would be in the stands regardless or not if the Pride plays. I think it is terrible that there is even mention of not playing...as far as ruining the public perception, not to worry, with a band like ours, we can still put out a big sound without hitting every little detail. I think most people wouldnt even notice-and I've seen more than one game on tv where the band(s) had to play in the elements, most of us arent pansies, thats why we go to school in South Dakota where the weather is erratic and crappy during most of the school year and its nothing compared to Northern Minnesota where I come from anyways! Last fall we practiced in downright ****ty weather many times and we got through it just fine. I have good reason to believe the GSMB will be at the Dakota Marker game this year, and that would be a [b]HORRIBLE thing if the visiting band came 180 some miles and we didnt show. The GSMB also doesnt get treated like **** when they come to Coughlin, unlike the stories I've heard about when the Pride has traveled to Fargo. McKinney is a great guy, as is all of the music staff for the Pride, but he can get lazy at times...other Pride members know what i mean. If this is all because of the Rose Parade, I guarantee the other two school bands whose teams are playing in the game arent taking it easy, in fact they're probably working twice as hard. That's what it takes to be great, and it pays off many times over. Thats one of the reasons I came to SDSU! GO JACKS!

[90Jackrabbit]

Re: Pride won't play at November games?

Ok, there are some things that need to be righted! As a second year Pride member, I have to say that I have always thought the collegiate marching band as part of football, and I love both to death. I would be in the stands regardless or not if the Pride plays. I think it is terrible that there is even mention of not playing...as far as ruining the public perception, not to worry, with a band like ours, we can still put out a big sound without hitting every little detail. I think most people wouldnt even notice-and I've seen more than one game on tv where the band(s) had to play in the elements, most of us arent pansies, thats why we go to school in South Dakota where the weather is erratic and crappy during most of the school year and its nothing compared to Northern Minnesota where I come from anyways! Last fall we practiced in downright ****ty weather many times and we got through it just fine. I have good reason to believe the GSMB will be at the Dakota Marker game this year, and that would be a [b]HORRIBLE thing if the visiting band came 180 some miles and we didnt show. The GSMB also doesnt get treated like **** when they come to Coughlin, unlike the stories I've heard about when the Pride has traveled to Fargo. McKinney is a great guy, as is all of the music staff for the Pride, but he can get lazy at times...other Pride members know what i mean. If this is all because of the Rose Parade, I guarantee the other two school bands whose teams are playing in the game arent taking it easy, in fact they're probably working twice as hard. That's what it takes to be great, and it pays off many times over. Thats one of the reasons I came to SDSU! GO JACKS!  

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
wr54 I agree with you 110%, now it is your job to get your fellow members of the Pride fired up for this game and demand that you are allowed to perform at this game.

[footballfan]

Re: Pride won't play at November games?

I sure hope The Pride plays and like a few of the posters said.....its South Dakota deal with it...... Either way, I will be there to watch the Jacks beat the Bison...








Go Jacks  !!!!!!!!

[goon]

Re: Pride won't play at November games?

It seems many people here think the band only plays for football games and thats all they are allowed to do. But that is not the case. The weather and field conditions suck at that time of in, and in a bout a months time after that game, the Band is going to be flying out for the rose bowl parade again. The first college band to ever be invited to the parade twice with out a team playing in the game. My guess is that the field is going to be muddy as hell. The last think Mkinney is going to be doing in marching 400 students through a muddy field just to get all the uniform pants dirty a month before they are on the worlds largest stage. For those of you who want to take back your donations to the band, maybe if you pony up the dry cleaning bill to clean all 400 uniforms with in a month before they leave, be my guest. The band I doubt would perform even in jeans and shoes because the band does care about the qaulity of the show it puts on for the fans. I am sorry so many people feel that the band is only important for playing at football games but that is not the case. try talking to the people who schedule the teams and play the game not the last game of the year. When was the last time that the band even played the last home game in November? it never does so why should it make an expception now, regardless who they play. The band will be practicing and preparing for the rose parade this fall. That is their biggest concern, its not who is going to be your halftime entertainment in Nov 17th.

[SDSU_TUBA]

Re: Pride won't play at November games?

For those of you who want to take back your donations to the band, maybe if you pony up the dry cleaning bill to clean all 400 uniforms with in a month before they leave, be my guest.

Last time we went to the Rose Parade they had our uniforms dry cleaned for us before we left, so I'm sure its already in the budget, but I'm sure they'd gladly take the donation. All the other years the band members had to bring their uniforms to a dry cleaners and pay for it themselves.

[jackmd]

Re: Pride won't play at November games?

It seems many people here think the band only plays for football games and thats all they are allowed to do. 

I'm pretty sure nobody here thinks that. Great attitude by the way. Good luck with that. I for one would like the band to be at the NDSU game. I also realize what I want doesn't really matter that much when it comes to The Pride. I guess we'll see.