On to Misery... I mean Missouri State

[CappinHard]

Re: On to Misery... I mean Missouri State

It's the same (To Me) as Starting Tyrel Kool as the RB when ZZ was CLEARLY the better Back, and Kool was a HUGE asset at WR.

Exactly, and Lujan is a huge asset as a backup QB. Knowing that if the starter goes down, you have a guy of his caliber to come in is huge.

[thumper_76]

Re: On to Misery... I mean Missouri State

I agree about pulling TC's redshirt, but for different reasons. I understand the thought process and advantages of having a kid for 5 years, however TC was ready to play this year. If they are ready, play them. I think we sometimes get into the habit of always playing for the future. We have a hell of a team despite some recent events. Our defense is playing at a really high level and when that happens you are in a position to win any game. We may not be in that position when TC would have been a red-shirted senior.

That really doesn't hold much water to me, the whole if he's ready play him. You really think that a kid playing as a true frosh is going to have a season even slightly comparable to what he can't do as a 5th year SR? That's what you are trading for. And to trade just three games for that 5th year is absolute lunacy to me.

[TK22867]

Re: On to Misery... I mean Missouri State

I think a lot of posters on this board believe in the misguided notion that just because TC is "mobile" and has a stronger arm that it automatically makes him the better choice. I disagree.

Go look at the top 25. Better yet, go take a look at the past champions. The notion that a mobile QB is always the better option is folly.

[TK22867]

Re: On to Misery... I mean Missouri State

And to trade just three games for that 5th year is absolute lunacy to me.

This brings up a good point. Would you rather A.) Miss the playoffs to guarantee a 5th year for TC or B.) Burn TC's redshirt and make the playoffs?

Personally, I support B and fully support the coaches in that decision - the decision to WIN, and WIN NOW.

[thumper_76]

Re: On to Misery... I mean Missouri State

This brings up a good point. Would you rather A.) Miss the playoffs to guarantee a 5th year for TC or B.) Burn TC's redshirt and make the playoffs?

Personally, I support B and fully support the coaches in that decision - the decision to WIN, and WIN NOW.

Using that argument your re saying that having TC in those two W's is a 20 pt swing in each game. So by saying you think Lujan is a better option you are also saying that Lujan is a bigger swing than that, which is a big swig either way. Both QBs are good as heck if you ask me, but I don't necessarily think they make that big of a pt spread in the game. So the assumption we wouldn't make playoffs without burning the redshirt is a big assumption to me. But hindsight is 20/20, im just a fan, and these decisions don't have and impact on me being hired or fired, so I don't have to factor that into it. I feel the decision is looking more and more like it was made because it made those two wins a sure thing and more comfortable wins. I think that bites us in the ass. But that's just me. We'll see in four years.

[CappinHard]

Re: On to Misery... I mean Missouri State

I think a lot of posters on this board believe in the misguided notion that just because TC is "mobile" and has a stronger arm that it automatically makes him the better choice. I disagree.

Go look at the top 25. Better yet, go take a look at the past champions. The notion that a mobile QB is always the better option is folly.

I think you are mistaken. Posters on this board believe that TC gives us a better chance to win games. Lujan has shown that he struggles against MVFC teams, TC has shown that he can win against MVFC, and at the very least, give us a chance to win.

TC is 2-1 against MVFC teams. I would argue that you can't really pin that loss on him considering he didn't start and didn't get 1st team reps all week at practice.

Lujan is 2-3 against MVFC teams. The offense that we run with him in the game does not work against MVFC teams. It worked twice last year, when he had the best back in FCS history behind him. One of those wins was against Misery St., who went 1-7 in MVFC play last year, and we only beat them by 4 at home after having to come from behind to win.

Take the blinders off and realize that Lujan's success has largely been against non-MVFC (weaker) defenses. Who do we play the rest of the year? MVFC teams.

[TK22867]

Re: On to Misery... I mean Missouri State

Using that argument your re saying that having TC in those two W's is a 20 pt swing in each game. So by saying you think Lujan is a better option you are also saying that Lujan is a bigger swing than that, which is a big swig either way. Both QBs are good as heck if you ask me, but I don't necessarily think they make that big of a pt spread in the game. So the assumption we wouldn't make playoffs without burning the redshirt is a big assumption to me. But hindsight is 20/20, im just a fan, and these decisions don't have and impact on me being hired or fired, so I don't have to factor that into it. I feel the decision is looking more and more like it was made because it made those two wins a sure thing and more comfortable wins. I think that bites us in the ass. But that's just me. We'll see in four years.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. You're forgetting that Lujan was hurt and COULD NOT PLAY. I'm saying that the coaches felt that the other backup QB's couldn't get the job done and that they would likely miss out on the playoffs unless they pulled TC's redshirt.

[Justwin]

Re: On to Misery... I mean Missouri State

This brings up a good point. Would you rather A.) Miss the playoffs to guarantee a 5th year for TC or B.) Burn TC's redshirt and make the playoffs?

Personally, I support B and fully support the coaches in that decision - the decision to WIN, and WIN NOW.

I also agree with B. But B only works if you make a decision! At this point our coaches are not willing to make a decision. This part of having TC for a 5th year...... He is only gonna be on the field for 4 any way you slice it. I just don't think practice time equals game time. I will take talent over experience any day of the week and Twice on Saturdays. Let's face it if we are recruiting like we should be, we better have a QB as good or better in 3 years anyway to replace him.

[westernjack]

Re: On to Misery... I mean Missouri State

I think a lot of posters on this board believe in the misguided notion that just because TC is "mobile" and has a stronger arm that it automatically makes him the better choice. I disagree.

Go look at the top 25. Better yet, go take a look at the past champions. The notion that a mobile QB is always the better option is folly.

Since you told me too and I had some free time I went back and looked at the last 10 years FCS champions and their QB rushing stats for that year. These are net yards so negative yards for sacks are included
2014- NDSU- Carson Wentz +642 yards
2013- NDSU- Brock Jenson +479 yards
2012- NDSU- Brock Jenson +357 yards
2011- NDSU-Brock Jenson +173 yards
2010- EWU- Bo Mitchell +47 yards
2009- Villanova- Chris Whitney +987 yards
2008- Richmond- Eric Ward +440 yards
2007- App. St- Armanti Edwards +1588 yards (11 games) Trey Elder +501 yards (4 games)
2006- App St. Armanti Edwards +1153 yards
2005- App St.- Richie Williams +936 yards
2004- JMU- Justin Rascoti +375 Yards

Zach Lujan has -10 yards total rushing in his career.


These stats might show that having a QB with some mobility is quite helpful

[NWHSUandSDSU]

Re: On to Misery... I mean Missouri State

Since you told me too and I had some free time I went back and looked at the last 10 years FCS champions and their QB rushing stats for that year. These are net yards so negative yards for sacks are included
2014- NDSU- Carson Wentz-642 yards
2013- NDSU- Brock Jenson- 479 yards
2012- NDSU- Brock Jenson- 357 yards
2011- NDSU-Brock Jenson- 173 yards
2010- EWU- Bo Mitchell- 47 yards
2009- Villanova- Chris Whitney- 987 yards
2008- Richmond- Eric Ward- 440 yards
2007- App. St- Armanti Edwards- 1588 yards (11 games) Trey Elder- 501 yards (4 games)
2006- App St. Armanti Edwards- 1153 yards
2005- App St.- Richie Williams- 936 yards
2004- JMU- Justin Rascoti- 375 Yards

Zach Lujan has -10 yards total rushing in his career.

These stats might show that having a QB with some mobility is quite helpful

From your table it looks like they all had negative yardage. Did Edwards run backwards on every play? I kid, I kid couldn't resist.

[westernjack]

Re: On to Misery... I mean Missouri State

From your table it looks like they all had negative yardage. Did Edwards run backwards on every play? I kid, I kid couldn't resist.

Fixed it, probably should have noticed that before posting it

[TK22867]

Re: On to Misery... I mean Missouri State

Since you told me too and I had some free time I went back and looked at the last 10 years FCS champions and their QB rushing stats for that year. These are net yards so negative yards for sacks are included
2014- NDSU- Carson Wentz +642 yards
2013- NDSU- Brock Jenson +479 yards
2012- NDSU- Brock Jenson +357 yards
2011- NDSU-Brock Jenson +173 yards
2010- EWU- Bo Mitchell +47 yards
2009- Villanova- Chris Whitney +987 yards
2008- Richmond- Eric Ward +440 yards
2007- App. St- Armanti Edwards +1588 yards (11 games) Trey Elder +501 yards (4 games)
2006- App St. Armanti Edwards +1153 yards
2005- App St.- Richie Williams +936 yards
2004- JMU- Justin Rascoti +375 Yards

Zach Lujan has -10 yards total rushing in his career.


These stats might show that having a QB with some mobility is quite helpful

Nice research. I'd like to see the figures on a RPG or RYPG for a true comparison. With the exception of the Villanova and Appalachian State quarterbacks I'm not sold on giving all of the other quarterbacks a mobile/dual threat designation, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

For clarification, when I state "mobile" I'm more along the lines of "dual threat", read-option, will carry it at any time type of quarterback. I stand by my claim that just because a QB is dual-threat it does not automatically make him the better choice over the pure pocket passer. I think some posters are too much in love with that aspect of TC.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: On to Misery... I mean Missouri State

I hope to see very few plays by our starters vs Msu. Hope to help our walking wounded, and give backups opportunity to get game experience. Likewise, I think lots of reps for Lujan = good. A few reps for Christian = good.

No matter who'said in for Jacks, a 28 pt half time lead should be goal.

[thumper_76]

Re: On to Misery... I mean Missouri State

Nice research. I'd like to see the figures on a RPG or RYPG for a true comparison. With the exception of the Villanova and Appalachian State quarterbacks I'm not sold on giving all of the other quarterbacks a mobile/dual threat designation, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

For clarification, when I state "mobile" I'm more along the lines of "dual threat", read-option, will carry it at any time type of quarterback. I stand by my claim that just because a QB is dual-threat it does not automatically make him the better choice over the pure pocket passer. I think some posters are too much in love with that aspect of TC.

So you are trying to cherry pick stats that fit your argument and remove the people you know won't? Wentz has been known for killing us with his legs at crucial moments, Edwards won the Peyton Award several times, and the three other top Peyton Award QBs were dual threat this year in Vad Lee for JMU, Roberson at ISU, and Robertson at Villanova. Now two are hurt, so I am more than willing to concede injury is more likely, but let's look at other recent great college QBs. Top ones are Vince Young, Tim Tebow, RGIII and as much as I hate him, Johnny Maziel. All running QBs. That's just the way college is going. It doesn't work in the NFL, but the read option is the way of college football right now, and if you can't see it you are just putting your head in the sand.

[slosho]

Re: On to Misery... I mean Missouri State

So you are trying to cherry pick stats that fit your argument and remove the people you know won't? Wentz has been known for killing us with his legs at crucial moments, Edwards won the Peyton Award several times, and the three other top Peyton Award QBs were dual threat this year in Vad Lee for JMU, Roberson at ISU, and Robertson at Villanova. Now two are hurt, so I am more than willing to concede injury is more likely, but let's look at other recent great college QBs. Top ones are Vince Young, Tim Tebow, RGIII and as much as I hate him, Johnny Maziel. All running QBs. That's just the way college is going. It doesn't work in the NFL, but the read option is the way of college football right now, and if you can't see it you are just putting your head in the sand.

Running QB, NFL, Gives options that a pocket passer does not. Even Arron Rodgers can't argue. Feel free to watch from 1:20 on. THE QB put them in the position to win (Of course your coaches have to be on board). Discuss.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/greatest-g...nts-highlights