Lickliter, Fife, Hunter

[gojacksgo]

Found this blog about the three coaches and their possibilities for next year.

http://www3.thehawkeye.com/bohnenkamp_blog/?p=813

Put it in Summit League Topic because of the talk of Fife and Hunter.

Of note: IUPUI looking at APR issues and the loss of scholarships/practice time. I was not aware of this. Anybody else heard this?

[zooropa]

Re: Lickliter, Fife, Hunter

Just checked out the IUPUI APR data from the NCAA:

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaah..._APR_Data.html

Pretty scary. They're in the lowest decile for all sports, and the second lowest for basketball.

They weren't subjected to more severe penalties this year due to 'demonstrated improvement'.

The 'contemporaneous penalty' (2009/10 season) was a limit to 10 BB scholarships--which might explain the lack of depth on the team.

---

And before anyone asks, George Hill going pro doesn't impact APR--the big schools saw to that. But a kid leaving the program and STAYING IN SCHOOL does.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Lickliter, Fife, Hunter

Not sure, but I think if an athlete leaves early, it could count against the school if they would not have been academically eligible if they had returned.

[Hammersmith]

Re: Lickliter, Fife, Hunter

And before anyone asks, George Hill going pro doesn't impact APR--the big schools saw to that. But a kid leaving the program and STAYING IN SCHOOL does.

The first part of that is true, but the second part isn't. A kid is worth two points every semester except their graduation semester(one point for that one). One point is for remaining academically eligible, the other is for staying in school. If a kid were to stay in school after leaving the team, they would earn the team at least one point; both points if they were still academically eligible when they left. I believe a kid leaving for the pros is still judged for the academic eligibility point, but the other point is either not counted at all(he was only worth a possible one point for that semester) or going to the pros counts the same as staying in school. I think the former is correct, not the latter.

So a kid who stayed academically eligible his entire career at a school before leaving for the pros after his junior year would be worth:

1st year: 2/2 points first semester, 2/2 points second semester
2nd year: 2/2, 2/2
3rd year: 2/2, 1/1
Total: 11/11

Say that same kid dropped out after becoming academically ineligible instead of going pro:

1st year: 2/2, 2/2
2nd year: 2/2, 2/2
3rd year: 2/2, 0/2
Total: 10/12

Now say he left the team for some other reason, but was still academically eligible and he stayed in school:

1st year: 2/2, 2/2
2nd year: 2/2, 2/2
3rd year: 2/2, 2/2
Total: 12/12


As you can see, kid #3 actually benefited the team a slight bit more than kid #1(the pro). Both received 100% of their possible points, but that extra point earned by kid #3 slightly reduces the impact of any points lost by other members of the team.

In any case, staying in school only helps your APR; it never hurts it*. Schools also get a bonus point if a student returns to school and graduates after dropping out or going pro(assuming they get cut or hurt after only a year or two).


*I'm going to amend this a little bit. If you transfer to another university, it hurts your school's APR. One of the purposes of APR is to discourage large-scale transferring. For that reason, a transfer is viewed the same as a dropout(with some exceptions - mainly in baseball).

[Hammersmith]

Re: Lickliter, Fife, Hunter

One last thing regarding IUPUI:

They haven't been hit with worse sanctions, in part, because IUPUI's overall graduation rate is so low(I want to say it's in the 20's%*). I believe their basketball team has a significantly higher graduation rate and academic standing than the general student body(as sad as that might be).

*my bad; it was 32% last year

[zooropa]

Re: Lickliter, Fife, Hunter

The first part of that is true, but the second part isn't.

my apologies for not being clear. I should have included the part about transferring.

I think the system, as currently structured, is flawed because of that. The year off should be sufficient disincentive.

Another problem with the system is that it has such a long lookback.

The NCAA says that a score of 925 approximates a 50% graduation rate, and that kind of irks me. If you have to explain that 925 = 50, then your whole scoring system is incomprehensible.

It is an overly complex and overly ambitious system that has, basically, just transferred the problem from students failing to graduate, to students graduating with meaningless degrees.

Katie Budahl is a perfect example: She's getting a degree in education at SDSU. Her major at Minnesota? Nutrition.

There was a lengthy article on ESPN (?) about this--about kids graduating with odd-ball degrees, and being somewhat at a loss what to do with them. I've tried googling it, but haven't gotten anywhere.

BTW: Chicago State makes IUPUI look good. Most recent numbers show what? 17% of Chicago State undergrads graduating?

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Lickliter, Fife, Hunter

It is an overly complex and overly ambitious system that has, basically, just transferred the problem from students failing to graduate, to students graduating with meaningless degrees.

Katie Budahl is a perfect example: She's getting a degree in education at SDSU. Her major at Minnesota? Nutrition.

Sorry for the thread drift. But Zooropa, I am not understanding these statements you made. What constitutes a meaningless degree to you?

Is Nutrition a meaningless degree to you?

[zooropa]

Re: Lickliter, Fife, Hunter

Sorry for the thread drift. But Zooropa, I am not understanding these statements you made. What constitutes a meaningless degree to you?

Is Nutrition a meaningless degree to you?

It is when you have no idea what to do with it.

She loved the Twin Cities, her teammates and her coaches. She also learned a lot - like the fact that she'd prefer more of a 50-50 balance between sport and school. She switched majors from nutrition to education. She spent more time with her family. She cut back the intensity of her training.

http://www.argusleader.com/article/2...-the-right-fit

--

The article that I can't find on ESPN (heck, it may have been an SI piece) pointed out that certain schools are graduating kids that have degrees that they have no idea how to use.

A popular degree at one school was one in marketing. Now, I'm a firm believer in the value of marketing, and the value of spending time at a university acquiring a sound understanding of it.

But when the kid graduates and he has no idea what to do with his degree, it's pretty meaningless, wouldn't you say?

[SturgisJeff]

Re: Lickliter, Fife, Hunter

my apologies for not being clear. I should have included the part about transferring.

I think the system, as currently structured, is flawed because of that. The year off should be sufficient disincentive.

Another problem with the system is that it has such a long lookback.

The NCAA says that a score of 925 approximates a 50% graduation rate, and that kind of irks me. If you have to explain that 925 = 50, then your whole scoring system is incomprehensible.

It is an overly complex and overly ambitious system that has, basically, just transferred the problem from students failing to graduate, to students graduating with meaningless degrees.

Katie Budahl is a perfect example: She's getting a degree in education at SDSU. Her major at Minnesota? Nutrition.

There was a lengthy article on ESPN (?) about this--about kids graduating with odd-ball degrees, and being somewhat at a loss what to do with them. I've tried googling it, but haven't gotten anywhere.

BTW: Chicago State makes IUPUI look good. Most recent numbers show what? 17% of Chicago State undergrads graduating?

You mean all those Major college football players graduating with Broadcast Jounalism degrees? ESPN is going to be a crowded place. No wonder all those new Bowl games and expanding the NCAA to 96 teams. Need games for all those guys to broadcast.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Lickliter, Fife, Hunter

But when the kid graduates and he has no idea what to do with his degree, it's pretty meaningless, wouldn't you say?

To a certain point. But they can never take the degree away from that person, so I disagree with you that getting a degree is meaningless.

[HoboD]

Re: Lickliter, Fife, Hunter

To a certain point. But they can never take the degree away from that person, so I disagree with you that getting a degree is meaningless.

What he said.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Lickliter, Fife, Hunter

Just an FYI, from the U of MN web site:

Nutritional Science Program:
The Nutritional Science option is for students planning to go from the baccalaureate program into professional programs such as medical school or to graduate school in nutrition or a related field. Students in this option should begin early exploration of admission requirements for the post-baccalaureate programs in which they are interested to determine specific admission requirements, which may need to be met. In general, a cumulative grade point average of 3.0 is recommended for admission.

Didactic Program in Dietetics (DPD):
The Didactic Program in Dietetics (DPD) is housed within the Department of Food Science and Nutrition (FScN) on the St. Paul campus. Students are admitted into the program through the College of food, Agricultural and Natural Resource Sciences (CFANS).

This option offers preparation in the basic sciences and liberal education, a background in food science, and a focus on human needs related to nutrition. The curriculum is based on the Foundation Knowledge Requirements and Learning Outcomes for entry-level dietitians as defined by the American Dietetic Association. The curriculum meets accreditation standards for a Didactic Program in Dietetics (DPD) by the Commission on Accreditation for Dietetics Education (120 South Riverside Plaza, Suite 2000, Chicago, IL 60606-6995, Phone: 800-877-1600, Website: www.eatright.org). Therefore, students who plan to become registered dietitians will be eligible to apply for a post-baccalaureate dietetic internship upon graduation. Graduates of the program who choose not to become registered dietitians will be qualified for positions in various food-related fields, including nutrition, industry, and community programs.

[zooropa]

Re: Lickliter, Fife, Hunter

To a certain point. But they can never take the degree away from that person, so I disagree with you that getting a degree is meaningless.

Well, perhaps I exaggerated a little.

But tell me what a degree is worth if no one has explained to you, over the course of obtaining the degree, what you should do with it when you graduate?

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Lickliter, Fife, Hunter

Well, perhaps I exaggerated a little.

But tell me what a degree is worth if no one has explained to you, over the course of obtaining the degree, what you should do with it when you graduate?

Not much. But it probably wouldn't be too difficult to have someone explain it to you after you graduate.

[zooropa]

Re: Lickliter, Fife, Hunter

Not much. But it probably wouldn't be too difficult to have someone explain it to you after you graduate.

Too late.

I thoroughly enjoyed my time at state in no small part because I had an exceptionally good advisor--a guy who took the time to make sure what I was taking mattered, and that I was retaining what I needed to retain from these classes.

If you've already taken 'Market Research Methods', passed the final and sold the textbook back, it's too late to learn what you should have been paying attention to.

---

Of course, I think there are no shortage of regular undergrads who end up with degrees that are quite incomprehensible to them, to accompany student athletes that wanted to be engineers and who ended up with degrees in sociology (not that I'm knocking sociology).

Four years spent studying, passing finals, selling back textbooks and summarily forgetting key ideas--while failing to learn important habits--in order to get a job you qualify for by virtue of four years of forgetting, only to have your boss complain that your school didn't teach you the stuff you needed to know.