Sioux Falls Arena Problem

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

And no way is giving anyone the tourney indefinitely a good idea. We'll see what the interest is here in year four. But I'll predict year four might just be the best year yet. The SDSU men should be top 3, NDSU should be good as well and it's the first year for USD.

Again, what's in the best interest? Fairness or making dollars? I know which I think D1 is all about.

I don't think IUPUI, UMKC, SUU, IPFW or WIU will ever offer up much support attendance-wise unless it's played in their backyard and their team is a top seed.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

Absolutely agree. I would go so far as to say that if SF was awarded the Summit indefinitely, not only would the push for a new events center go stale, teams like ORU and Oakland would be Conference USA and Horizon bound in a second.

Are you saying that OU and ORU can just jump to those conferences if and when they choose? If that were the case they would be gone already. Heck, ORU would jump to the Sun Belt in a heartbeat.

C-USA isn't taking anyone without a football program...same goes for the Sun Belt. ORU also dreams of playing in the Valley, but I think that is even more of a pipe dream. ORU isn't going anywhere.

I know nothing about Oakland to the Horizon or Horizon expansion, but I could see that. They are sitting at 10 right now. Oakland would pair w/ Detroit-Mercy quite well and then the Horizon would probably look for a 12th, preferably an Ohio school.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

Anyone that thinks that Sioux Falls has a lock on the Summit for years to come is just delusional. The other teams are not going to put up with the home court advantage that it gives to the SD teams indefinetly. They all get to vote and eventually they will block vote to move it around. The SF arena is a pit. The best thing that could happen for Sioux Falls is for the tournament to be moved after this contract as a way to get the need for a new facility on the front burner.

Who has the final say? Douple or the schools? I agree that the schools do not want to see the Dakota schools get the homecourt advantage (I remember the Big XII schools freaking out a few years ago when the tourney was always held in KC), but then they need to step up and put a similar bid on the table and offer a similar or better experience. Can anyone, outside of maybe Fargo, do that? Very, very doubtful. Do we move this to Detroit or Indy only to see it not get half the attendance or half the excitment just so 2-3 Dakota schools don't have an advantage? Is that in the best interest of the league? I wouldn't be surprised at all to see this in SF at least 75% of the time. Heck, we'll host the thing our first 4 years of NCAA tourney eligibility. Who would have thought that was possible 5 years ago?

The SF Arena isn't exactly the Staples Center but it's not a "dump".

[propar80]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

Anyone that thinks that Sioux Falls has a lock on the Summit for years to come is just delusional. The other teams are not going to put up with the home court advantage that it gives to the SD teams indefinetly. They all get to vote and eventually they will block vote to move it around. The SF arena is a pit. The best thing that could happen for Sioux Falls is for the tournament to be moved after this contract as a way to get the need for a new facility on the front burner.

Absolutely agree. I would go so far as to say that if SF was awarded the Summit indefinitely, not only would the push for a new events center go stale, teams like ORU and Oakland would be Conference USA and Horizon bound in a second.

One of the attendees at SF Stater's asked Justin Sell what he thought it would take for SF to get the 1st round of the NCAA Women's Tourney and he pretty much said "a new arena". I thought it was a perfect answer, especially since Mike Heuther(sf mayor canidate) was in attendence.

Go Jacks!!

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

Anyone that thinks that Sioux Falls has a lock on the Summit for years to come is just delusional. The other teams are not going to put up with the home court advantage that it gives to the SD teams indefinetly. They all get to vote and eventually they will block vote to move it around. The SF arena is a pit. The best thing that could happen for Sioux Falls is for the tournament to be moved after this contract as a way to get the need for a new facility on the front burner.

I agree, although I think the best thing would be for Sioux Falls to get a new event center under construction BEFORE the contract expires.

[HoboD]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

Anyone that thinks that Sioux Falls has a lock on the Summit for years to come is just delusional. The other teams are not going to put up with the home court advantage that it gives to the SD teams indefinetly. They all get to vote and eventually they will block vote to move it around. The SF arena is a pit. The best thing that could happen for Sioux Falls is for the tournament to be moved after this contract as a way to get the need for a new facility on the front burner.

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

I think the failure of the events center tax measure is, in some ways, a blessing in disguise.

Since there is a need for a HS football facility, and the events task force has no intentions of razing the Arena, it's time for the city & school board to invest in these facilities.

Sitting around and letting these facilities go to seed because of a pie-in-the-sky events center plan is irresponsible, seeings how the events center plan doesn't anticipate tearing down the Arena, and can accommodate Howard Wood in its present location.

The arena should be replaced with something at least twice its size, but that's not going to happen for a while. In the meantime, money can be found to fix up the Arena, including better concourses, locker rooms, etc.

The city has deferred investment in the Arena for what? ten years? because a huge new arena was always over the next hill. They've now missed their window to bond it, need to take out a regular loan for it, and can't afford that. Not to mention the scattered shot-gun blast of a 'plan' on the drawing board, the unfavorable environment for funding it with the means available, etc.

Therefore, the city's got the option of investing in the Arena, and continuing to be an outstanding host for the Summit, or continuing to have such quaint 'features' as the scoreboard from Hoosiers (complete with the incredibly stuck horn), beer sold from folding tables, and hopelessly inadequate restroom facilities.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

I don't think this thing will ever get stale in Sioux Falls. I think people showed up to watch mediocre Jacks men's teams in the past and the future is certainly brighter. And as for the women, I only see the Jacks being top-3 forever in the Summit, so there will always be the possibility of rooting them on to the NCAA's and attendance will always be strong.

USD:
Sure, USD is "only" 4 hours to Fargo, but it's only 1 hour to SF and the alum base in both towns is not even close. If and when SDSU or USD challenge for the title.....look out. Attendance for both would be 50% less in Fargo in the same case. And when USD is added the Summit has 4 teams within 5 hours of SF. Even w/ best case scenario I can't see 12,000 ppl wanting tix for any Summit game anytime soon. If it sells out, Midcontinent is happy. They broadcast the game locally and easily sell ad slots. Bars are thrilled as well. As Michael Scott would say "win-win-win".

History:
SF has passed with flying colors. Quite possibly the best low-major tourney in the country. If the next two years go like the first two did (and given the state of both SDSU bball programs, they will both be, at least, top 4) then SF will continue to be very successful. So what would you do as commish? Roll the dice a w/ Fargo or go safe, the record setting SF?

Facility:
In two years, when the bid is up, I expect ground to be broke on a new SF facility. So let's say SF wins another 2-3 year bid. That would mean the next time the bid came up SF is boasting a brand new facility that will help even MORE in bringing out the fans.

Coorporate sponsorship:
We've seen it w/ the Force, Storm, Stampede and Canaries (among others like Augie and USF). The coorporate sponsorship in this city is very committed and very impressive. If anyone in this league can beat them then I'll eat my hat. Not to mention that Mike Sullivan is the real deal (assist to Brad Coleman).

Brrrr:
Fargo is another 4 hours north. If Summit fans are already nervous or unexcitied or scared to get stuck in a blizzard to come to SF then what will they think about going another 4 hours north to Fargo?

2nd place is first loser:
I think Fargo would do a fine job. I think SDSU and USD ppl would travel pretty well, rest of the league not as well. I know the local ppl will support it. I think cooperate would be alright. I think the women's side would suffer. If SF were not able to host it I think Fargo is a solid 2nd choice (only show in town vs. alot of other potential destinations). I just feel the bar has been set so high that it's gonna take everything falling into place (the right seedings, local teams doing well, etc) for Fargo to be in the same ballpark. Douple was at the USD-SDSU women's game....with mouth wide open and brain racing. He's no dummy. At this point I think Fargo would need to hit a hole-in-one in the biding process.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

You do realize the BSA is about the worst venue in college basketball, it holds attendance back severely it seats about 5,000 people comfortably. Despite that we have been second in attendance for conference games three years running and we have only had one doubleheader.

If you want to use attendance, the game should have never moved from Tulsa since ORU is 1st in attendance every year by a mile.

I only said Sanford would be a sponsor, I never said they would break the bank. Fargo has history of bringing in big events, if SF doesn't get a new arena and there are no conflicts the dome will put forward a significant bid.

With all due respect, BSA is far, far from the worst arena to watch a CBB game. You must not watch many lower level D1 programs and must have forgotten that the Dakotadome is now a D1 facility.

Also, ORU reports on tix sold and definetly NOT butts in seats. I have watched games where 500 appeared in attendance only to read 4,500 reported in the box score the next day.

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

If you want to use attendance, the game should have never moved from Tulsa since ORU is 1st in attendance every year by a mile.

Of course, Tulsa didn't draw for -jack- when the Eagles weren't playing.

Not to mention the pitiful support for WBB there, even when the Eagles -were- playing.

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It's not just about attendance, though. It's about money and publicity and atmosphere.

Frankly, I don't think Fargo can put together a compelling case that they would be better than Sioux Falls at this--even if one assumed that the sponsorship commitments were equal (which is a big assumption, IMO).

The SF Arena seats about 6500 and 3,000 all event passes were sold this year; given that attendance at the 'non-local' sessions was up year over year, I would expect that even more all event passes will be sold next year. If you're up to, say, 3,800 all event passes, you've pre-sold half the arena for -every single session-.

I think there's a real question whether or not Fargo could deliver those kind of numbers.

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Understand, I'm not trying to be a jerk about this. I just don't see how Fargo can make a compelling case for moving the tournament--even when it comes to money.

[FargoBison]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

What don't you understand? Fargo doesn't do that great a job at supporting its own basketball--let alone the prospect of paying to see teams like Oakland and IUPUI when a local team ain't playing.

The BSA didn't come close to selling out last year, when the 'fab four' were playing. If NDSU couldn't even scrape together 6,000 Fargoans to pay to see the Fab Four in their best and farewell season, in the same season that SDSU drew 5,700 to the Oakland doubleheader (and that's 5700 in attendance), what are the odds that more than 2k would show up for a non-NDSU final in the vast echoing expanse of the Fargodome?

Further, I doubt that Sanford would offer more sponsorship money to Fargo's bid than they would for Sioux Falls. Would Microsoft outbid Daktronics? And then, who's going to pony up what SD tourism paid? Or what First Premier paid?

You do realize the BSA is about the worst venue in college basketball, it holds attendance back severely it seats about 5,000 people comfortably. Despite that we have been second in attendance for conference games three years running and we have only had one doubleheader.

If you want to use attendance, the game should have never moved from Tulsa since ORU is 1st in attendance every year by a mile.

I only said Sanford would be a sponsor, I never said they would break the bank. Fargo has history of bringing in big events, if SF doesn't get a new arena and there are no conflicts the dome will put forward a significant bid.

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

I don't know what Zoo is talking about when it comes to attendance, NDSU was second in the league this season. I don't know why you are even talking about the CBA, pro basketball has no chance in this market with NDSU, high school sports, and Sioux hockey. Fargo is not like Sioux Falls, it is a college town.

What don't you understand? Fargo doesn't do that great a job at supporting its own basketball--let alone the prospect of paying to see teams like Oakland and IUPUI when a local team ain't playing.

The BSA didn't come close to selling out last year, when the 'fab four' were playing. If NDSU couldn't even scrape together 6,000 Fargoans to pay to see the Fab Four in their best and farewell season, in the same season that SDSU drew 5,700 to the Oakland doubleheader (and that's 5700 in attendance), what are the odds that more than 2k would show up for a non-NDSU final in the vast echoing expanse of the Fargodome?

Further, I doubt that Sanford would offer more sponsorship money to Fargo's bid than they would for Sioux Falls. Would Microsoft outbid Daktronics? And then, who's going to pony up what SD tourism paid? Or what First Premier paid?

[FargoBison]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

The Fargodome is planning on bidding at least from what I have heard.

Midcon does serve parts of Fargo, so they do have a presence. Fargo would have the sponsors, Sanford-Merticare and Microsoft could be some major sponsors. The city would also have an interest.

Of course if SF builds a new arena this probably doesn't matter, but with USD and UND probably joining a 11,000 seat arena could be attractive.

I don't know what Zoo is talking about when it comes to attendance, NDSU was second in the league this season. I don't know why you are even talking about the CBA, pro basketball has no chance in this market with NDSU, high school sports, and Sioux hockey.

Fargo is not like Sioux Falls, it is a college town. The only pro team that has worked is the Redhawks and that has more to do with people liking to drink beer and be outside in the summer.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

Here is the thread discussing the change of focus with a link to the Forum article.

http://sdsufans.com/board/showthread.php?t=9577

[jackmd]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

How long ago? Last I saw NDSU was backing off on a new arena and looking at an extensive BSA renovation.

So your telling me that guy was full of crap? I thought he might be. He was very convincing and pretty bold in his assertion that the rumor of the buildings demise was greatly over exaggerated.

In all seriousness, my point is, the current facility can be buffed and polished as much as they want, what Sioux Falls really needs is a real events center. Does that mean they should build it? I say yes, but what do I know. Great job securing the tourney for an additional 2 years, I expect that was with the contingency that a new facility would be in the works.