Sioux Falls Arena Problem

[BTownJack]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

I'll just say this...if any team from the Summit League gets an invitation from a better, more stable conference they are gone. Nothing else would matter.

[propar80]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

Exactly. If hosting the tournament every year wouldn't keep them out of the Horizon, hosting it every 2 years wouldn't, hosting it every 4 years wouldn't, etc.

That's why it's a good thing the president's council votes on these things.

If Beckie Francis had her way, the tournament would probably be held on one of the Grizzlies' practice courts, with fans limited to OU players' friends and family.

And so on and so forth......

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The presidents, OTOH, have enough perspective to know that the Summit couldn't possibly draw at a truly neutral venue (what tournament outside the Big Six + MWC + "A"-"10" + Valley can?), which means -someone- is going to get a home court advantage.... and if that home court advantage is profitable and looks great on TV (stuck scoreboard aside), well............????????

Glad you allowed yourself to see both sides of the arguement.

Go Jacks!!

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

Would Oakland bolt to the Horizon no matter what?? They probably would.

Exactly. If hosting the tournament every year wouldn't keep them out of the Horizon, hosting it every 2 years wouldn't, hosting it every 4 years wouldn't, etc.

That's why it's a good thing the president's council votes on these things.

If Beckie Francis had her way, the tournament would probably be held on one of the Grizzlies' practice courts, with fans limited to OU players' friends and family.

And so on and so forth......

--

The presidents, OTOH, have enough perspective to know that the Summit couldn't possibly draw at a truly neutral venue (what tournament outside the Big Six + MWC + "A"-"10" + Valley can?), which means -someone- is going to get a home court advantage.... and if that home court advantage is profitable and looks great on TV (stuck scoreboard aside), well............????????

[propar80]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

Tell me if I misunderstand you.

The way I read this, you're saying the following, in effect, would take place:

"Hi, this is the Horizon League. Because ______ left for the "Atlantic" "10", we're evaluating new schools for membership. Oakland is one of the strongest programs in our footprint that is not a member of the Horizon League. Would you be interested in applying to join?"

"Nah. We get to host the Summit League tournament every year."

Stick a fork in me, I'm done.

I'm not turning this now into a discussion about Oakland hosting the tournament every year. Don't get me wrong, I know what you're getting at. Would Oakland bolt to the Horizon no matter what?? They probably would.

We'll just have to see how it plays out.

Hope you're right and I'm wrong...honestly I do. I like the way the Summit is shaping up and if that means the Tournament stay's in SF forever....for me, since I live in SF and am an SDSU fan...that's great!!!!

Go Jacks!!

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

If Oakland and ORU eventually have to play in Vermillion, Grand Forks, Brookings, Fargo and then again in Sioux Falls (3 games potentionally) every-single-year, Men and Women...yes I do.

Tell me if I misunderstand you.

The way I read this, you're saying the following, in effect, would take place:

"Hi, this is the Horizon League. Because ______ left for the "Atlantic" "10", we're evaluating new schools for membership. Oakland is one of the strongest programs in our footprint that is not a member of the Horizon League. Would you be interested in applying to join?"

"Nah. We get to host the Summit League tournament every year."

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

Until one of the MBB programs from the Dakota schools wins the tournament multiple times or in consecutive years as a lower seeded team, there is no way that the league moves the tournament because of a perceived home court advantage. Based on our first two years, that home court advantage hasn't mattered as the better/best teams have still made it to the finals and advanced to the NCAA tourney.

I don't ever envisioning them moving it based on a home court advantage for our women's team, no matter how many times we win the women's tournament - and that's not intended to be a slight on the women's tournament. WBB just doesn't pay the bills like MBB does with the NCAA or at most of the Summit schools (thankfully at SDSU it competes). Sorry Becky Francis and Jerry Finkenbeiner.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

Not unless Duke joined the Summit League.

Here's a prediction for you RO: within 10 years the SDSU/USD regular season game in Frost will be broadcast on ESPN (or at the very least ESPN U, 2, etc).

[propar80]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

[QUOTE=zooropa;150312]Let me ask you this, then:

Would hosting the Summit tournament every year keep Oakland from bolting to the Horizon if it were invited?




If Oakland and ORU eventually have to play in Vermillion, Grand Forks, Brookings, Fargo and then again in Sioux Falls (3 games potentionally) every-single-year, Men and Women...yes I do.

Go Jacks!!

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

I absolutely agree with you that it is up to the other institutions to put in a comparible bid if they don't want to have to travel to SF every March.

But if you don't think that the potential of losing good team in the "current" Summit League isn't a bad thing for SDSU/NDSU and USD because they feel like the Summit League is becoming too "Dakota-Centric", then I can't help you there.

Like I said in the previous post, which you conveniently decided to leave out. Maybe teams like ORU and Oakland don't mine coming to the Dakota's every year, because they enjoy the atmosphere, which they might not get at their chosen venue...I guess we'll see. I'm just trying to see things from their perspective...I know that's tough for us around here sometimes.

Go Jacks!!

I highly doubt the location of the conference basketball tournament is going to influence whether a team decides to remain in the league. Maybe they think this league gives them the best chance to get to the big dance?

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

But if you don't think that the potential of losing good team in the "current" Summit League isn't a bad thing for SDSU/NDSU and USD because they feel like the Summit League is becoming too "Dakota-Centric", then I can't help you there.

Let me ask you this, then:

Would hosting the Summit tournament every year keep Oakland from bolting to the Horizon if it were invited?

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I understand your concerns, but I don't think they're well-founded. Oakland would leap at the chance to join the Horizon, regardless of whether they host the tournament or not--that's what I see from their perspective.

[propar80]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

Know who votes on tournament location?

Players? No.
Coaches? No.
ADs? No.

Presidents? Yes.

If Oakland doesn't like it, if IUPUI doesn't like it, if ORU doesn't like it, then the onus is on THEM to figure out how to get the tournament away from Sioux Falls.

2800 tickets distributed for the game OU/IPUPI game in Rochester, 1200 tickets distributed for the game in Indianapolis, 3100 IN ATTENDANCE at the game in Sioux Falls.

If that doesn't explain why the tournament is in Sioux Falls instead of Oakland, I have no earthly idea what will.

The basketball tournament is put up for BID because the Summit expects to make money off it.

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This carping about 'Dakota-centric' this and 'bolting for the Horizon' that is nonsense.

The tournament is HERE because THERE IS FAN SUPPORT HERE.

Look at those numbers again. 2800 for -the- premier OU matchup (OU/IUPUI).

2800

And that's NOT butts in the seats.

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That's pathetic.

Can you imagine a tournament put on at the PALACE, hosted by a school that can't even fill its own venue for the biggest game of its season?

--

If ORU & OU were such magnificent schools, SDSU & NDSU would have never gotten a sniff at Summit League membership.

Rather, SDSU & NDSU brought something to the table that the Summit hadn't hardly seen in years. FANS.

Not surprisingly, then, the BB tournament is located in close proximity to the schools with the best FAN SUPPORT, not necessarily the basketball powers.

I absolutely agree with you that it is up to the other institutions to put in a comparible bid if they don't want to have to travel to SF every March.

But if you don't think that the potential of losing good team in the "current" Summit League isn't a bad thing for SDSU/NDSU and USD because they feel like the Summit League is becoming too "Dakota-Centric", then I can't help you there.

Like I said in the previous post, which you conveniently decided to leave out. Maybe teams like ORU and Oakland don't mine coming to the Dakota's every year, because they enjoy the atmosphere, which they might not get at their chosen venue...I guess we'll see. I'm just trying to see things from their perspective...I know that's tough for us around here sometimes.

Go Jacks!!

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

The final decision maker is who comes up with the bucks. Until someone can top what Sioux Falls is doing which is essentially guaranteeing the conference makes a nice profit than it will remain there. Sioux Falls needs to make the new event center a reality, but the need for a new facilty goes far beyond a 5 day basketball tournament. I'm still under the opinion that it would be a waste to try and put more lipstick on a pig. A state of the art new center scoreboard that can me moved eventually to a new facilty should happen as soon as possible. I think the capacity of the current arena is fine and while it does not have the nice new amenities it is a classic basketball arena with great site lines. Weren't they playing the tournament in Tulsa in a High School Basketball facility? I'm disappointed the legislature did not give the cities the automony to decide if they want to increase taxes by a penny after it's agreed to by a public vote/referendum. I'm not disappointed that the current plan seems to be dead. Let the school board and city fix up Howard Wood with the dollars they have allocated and put the new arena downtown where there is the greatest economic impact. SDSU Men do not have a homecourt advantage until they have a team with the talent that is capable of taking advantage of it. I don't think Sioux Falls will lose the tournament because of the condition of the arena, but I hope that perception is out there so the city leaders take action soon.

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

maybe teams like Oakland and ORU enjoy traveling to Sioux Falls, SD for 5 days and playing in front of their families, band and cheerleaders if they're not playing SDSU.

Know who votes on tournament location?

Players? No.
Coaches? No.
ADs? No.

Presidents? Yes.

If Oakland doesn't like it, if IUPUI doesn't like it, if ORU doesn't like it, then the onus is on THEM to figure out how to get the tournament away from Sioux Falls.

2800 tickets distributed for the game OU/IPUPI game in Rochester, 1200 tickets distributed for the game in Indianapolis, 3100 IN ATTENDANCE at the game in Sioux Falls.

If that doesn't explain why the tournament is in Sioux Falls instead of Oakland, I have no earthly idea what will.

The basketball tournament is put up for BID because the Summit expects to make money off it.

----

This carping about 'Dakota-centric' this and 'bolting for the Horizon' that is nonsense.

The tournament is HERE because THERE IS FAN SUPPORT HERE.

Look at those numbers again. 2800 for -the- premier OU matchup (OU/IUPUI).

2800

And that's NOT butts in the seats.

--

That's pathetic.

Can you imagine a tournament put on at the PALACE, hosted by a school that can't even fill its own venue for the biggest game of its season?

--

If ORU & OU were such magnificent schools, SDSU & NDSU would have never gotten a sniff at Summit League membership.

Rather, SDSU & NDSU brought something to the table that the Summit hadn't hardly seen in years. FANS.

Not surprisingly, then, the BB tournament is located in close proximity to the schools with the best FAN SUPPORT, not necessarily the basketball powers.

[Roy]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

And no way is giving anyone the tourney indefinitely a good idea. We'll see what the interest is here in year four. But I'll predict year four might just be the best year yet. The SDSU men should be top 3, NDSU should be good as well and it's the first year for USD.

Again, what's in the best interest? Fairness or making dollars? I know which I think D1 is all about.

I don't think IUPUI, UMKC, SUU, IPFW or WIU will ever offer up much support attendance-wise unless it's played in their backyard and their team is a top seed.

It is my understanding that USD is not tournament eligible the first year. They won't play at the Arena under the existing Summit League contract (2011 & 2012). They are eligible for League play for the 2011-2012 season however.

[propar80]

Re: Sioux Falls Arena Problem

Are you saying that OU and ORU can just jump to those conferences if and when they choose? If that were the case they would be gone already. Heck, ORU would jump to the Sun Belt in a heartbeat.

C-USA isn't taking anyone without a football program...same goes for the Sun Belt. ORU also dreams of playing in the Valley, but I think that is even more of a pipe dream. ORU isn't going anywhere.

I know nothing about Oakland to the Horizon or Horizon expansion, but I could see that. They are sitting at 10 right now. Oakland would pair w/ Detroit-Mercy quite well and then the Horizon would probably look for a 12th, preferably an Ohio school.

No...what I'm saying is the more-"Dakota Centric" the Summit gets the less interested the "high-end" teams are going to be in keeping their membership when they get the chance to leave, IMHO of course.
I could be totally off...maybe teams like Oakland and ORU enjoy traveling to Sioux Falls, SD for 5 days and playing in front of their families, band and cheerleaders if they're not playing SDSU. And if they are, they get to play against a HUGE homecourt advantage if they are playing SDSU or in the future, USD.
The upside is that they actually get to play in front of fans that do care, in a city that obviously cares about the Summit League Tournament. This could be enough to offset my previous point, I don't know.

It's a double-edge sword that SDSU/USD fans don't have to worry about if the Tournament is always in SF/Fargo, but IMO it is a problem if another conference has an opening for one of these "high-end" conference mates and they take it. Then all of a sudden the Summit is faced with replacing them with...who?????

But alas, why do I worry about this stuff...I'm sure Augie will eventually come to their senses and drop football and move up, and the Minnesota Legislature will allow UMD, SCSU and Mankato to move up. Then it will be one big happy family again.

Go Jacks!!