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[jackdaniel]

GEESH NO! no reporting needed and no criticism intended!!
if it felt like i was trying to criticize or say you were dumb or something, it is purely the problem with perceiving words on a screen. totally get ya on the memory thing)!!

I was just kidding, even debated to say it, even as a joke, because it has undertones of being political, even though it was a joke and not intended to provoke, but perhaps be humorous, probably failed miserably in it being humorous. Sorry I misled you to thinking I was serious, my bad.

[LetsGoRabbits]

I was just kidding, even debated to say it, even as a joke, because it has undertones of being political, even though it was a joke and not intended to provoke, but perhaps be humorous, probably failed miserably in it being humorous. Sorry I misled you to thinking I was serious, my bad.

NO PROBLEM
i was leaning toward that was your intent! but just wanted to make it totally clear

and i did catch you poking fun at one of the current buzz words)) which is meaningless since it is used by both sides of any debate. basically means anything said by somebody else that you do not agree with)

[jackdaniel]

NO PROBLEM
i was leaning toward that was your intent! but just wanted to make it totally clear

and i did catch you poking fun at one of the current buzz words)) which is meaningless since it is used by both sides of any debate. basically means anything said by somebody else that you do not agree with)

Good deal. I was hoping you'd accept my apology.

[SteelSD]

Danni Nichols from WIU joining DP at WVU.

[OldHare]

Danni Nichols from WIU joining DP at WVU.

62 minutes of play against SDSU resulted in 17 points, 6 rebounds, 2 TO, 1 steal, & 1 block. How much playing time for her in Big 12?

[LetsGoRabbits]

62 minutes of play against SDSU resulted in 17 points, 6 rebounds, 2 TO, 1 steal, & 1 block. How much playing time for her in Big 12?

it is true that she did NOTHING special against the jacks. but against everyone else she was pretty good. and we could say the rest of the league was not good. but i think we had at least a few other teams that were respectable

and at the very least, i think we have to admit that usd was very very good defensively. i would say that they were an elite defensive team

remember WIU played much better against usd than they did against us

in 3 games vs usd, dani averaged about 32 minutes 14 points, 4 boards and about 1.5 assists. OR she averaged 5.5 more points and 1 more board per game vs usd than she averaged agains the jacks.
probably not incredible but i would say that even in the big 12 they will face some teams that will NOT be as good defensively as usd was last year

i imagine that because of the jacks playing so crappy in the SLT final that some people think usd was WAY better than the jacks last year. but i think that the evidence of the WHOLE SEASON actually paints a different picture
i think the two teams were quite even. and i think they made life tough for the jacks because of their committment to roughing up Myah. but actually the jacks were more dominant against the rest of the summit schedule than usd was
i would have love to see the jacks get to play the same draw in the ncaa that usd had. and the jacks showed in the wnit that they could be successful even agains teams with much bigger posts. they faced a 6'4 post from alabama and the seton hall starter was at least that big

anyway my point is that just because someone struggled against the jacks, it does not necessarily mean that they cannot succeed against P5 schools. also remember that Dani is a guard. remember what the jacks did to Scalia from minnesota and Osbourne from ucla. Osbourne was FIRST TEAM Pac 12 the jacks held her to 3 baskets. she ended up with 11 but she got 5 points on 2 gift foul calls. and scalia only had 8 against the jacks
the point guards for Ohio and Seton Hall were also excellent players who did NOTHING against the jacks. so obviously the jacks were able to make life pretty hard for some good guards last year

[jackdaniel]

it is true that she did NOTHING special against the jacks. but against everyone else she was pretty good. and we could say the rest of the league was not good. but i think we had at least a few other teams that were respectable

and at the very least, i think we have to admit that usd was very very good defensively. i would say that they were an elite defensive team

remember WIU played much better against usd than they did against us

in 3 games vs usd, dani averaged about 32 minutes 14 points, 4 boards and about 1.5 assists. OR she averaged 5.5 more points and 1 more board per game vs usd than she averaged agains the jacks.
probably not incredible but i would say that even in the big 12 they will face some teams that will NOT be as good defensively as usd was last year

i imagine that because of the jacks playing so crappy in the SLT final that some people think usd was WAY better than the jacks last year. but i think that the evidence of the WHOLE SEASON actually paints a different picture
i think the two teams were quite even. and i think they made life tough for the jacks because of their committment to roughing up Myah. but actually the jacks were more dominant against the rest of the summit schedule than usd was
i would have love to see the jacks get to play the same draw in the ncaa that usd had. and the jacks showed in the wnit that they could be successful even agains teams with much bigger posts. they faced a 6'4 post from alabama and the seton hall starter was at least that big

anyway my point is that just because someone struggled against the jacks, it does not necessarily mean that they cannot succeed against P5 schools. also remember that Dani is a guard. remember what the jacks did to Scalia from minnesota and Osbourne from ucla. Osbourne was FIRST TEAM Pac 12 the jacks held her to 3 baskets. she ended up with 11 but she got 5 points on 2 gift foul calls. and scalia only had 8 against the jacks
the point guards for Ohio and Seton Hall were also excellent players who did NOTHING against the jacks. so obviously the jacks were able to make life pretty hard for some good guards last year

This made me wonder too, is it just a mind thing with USD, we handle everyone else with ease mostly, but against them we struggle more, of course it was very hard to score against their defense, and we did beat them once at home, Baylor couldn't even do that. I know they had a bad game (Baylor), but if that's an excuse, you could also say we had a bad game when we lost to USD in the SLT last season. Most teams that lose had a bad game for the most part , Eh... just thinking out loud. Don't forget NC State, we beat them right about the time, a season before, they were getting really good and ranked, they had many of the same players. They were loaded with tall posts as most P-5 schools are, because they get first, 2nd , ? , pick out of all of them basically

[LetsGoRabbits]

This made me wonder too, is it just a mind thing with USD, we handle everyone else with ease mostly, but against them we struggle more, of course it was very hard to score against their defense, and we did beat them once at home, Baylor couldn't even do that. I know they had a bad game (Baylor), but if that's an excuse, you could also say we had a bad game when we lost to USD in the SLT last season. Most teams that lose had a bad game for the most part , Eh... just thinking out loud. Don't forget NC State, we beat them right about the time, a season before, they were getting really good and ranked, they had many of the same players. They were loaded with tall posts as most P-5 schools are, because they get first, 2nd , ? , pick out of all of them basically

I think a couple things

first remember for the last 4 or 5 years they have had some of the most talented teams they have EVER HAD! the Duffy girl, Lamb, and Sjerven are probably all in the top 5 players they have EVER had, along with N Seekamp and M Koupal. maybe there is another 1 or 2 i am forgetting, but the point is that they have recently been as talented as they have EVER been. and at the moment it does not look like they are going to continue to have that level of talent. i am NOT saying that they wont or cant!! but at the moment it looks like there is going to be a drop off

but that said, even with that talent, when we have been healthy we really have not actually struggled that much against them. YES we have had close games, of course, they have been very good, that should be expected, but in the time we had Macy we never lost to them in the SLT. since Macy we have had injuries. first year after Macy, Myah sat most of the year, and still we went to the SLT against them. That was the team that had ALL THREE of duffy, lamb, and sjerven. our best player was OUT and we still played them to a one possession game with about a minute to go

last year we beat them BOTH games we played them. we did not get to play them in SLT because again, INJURIES

this year we beat them at frost. and in the SLT yes we did have a terrible game. actually one of the worst i really remember from us!! and i believe it was because of ONE their familiarity with us and TWO paige being out. WITHOUT paige they just determined that they would do ANYTHING possible to NOT let MYAH beat them. they had one girl beating the crap out of her all the time!! and another two that were ready to close on her as soon as she moved toward the basket
Myah passed a lot and would have easily had 10 assists but nobody else could make a basket, except for Paiton from 3. TRULY if some team in the WNIT really wanted to beat us they should have watched that tape and tried to copy it!!
UCLA for instance, at the end of the game was trying to NOT let Tylee have the ball and trying to harass tylee, of course that worked a bit and it made tylee look like a small forward trying to be the main point guard
BUT they tried so hard to harass tylee they let Myah play one on one and score a couple buckets and set up another one in the last few minutes. she also had 24 pts.

so anyway, we have struggled, because they have been really good, and we have had injuries. the first year after macy, they had 3 all time greats and we had no myah and we were 0 and 3 vs them. that is the ONLY time that has happened!!!

since then we are 3 and 2 vs them and one of those two losses we had no paige.

OBVIOUSLY we will never know, but i would have loved to see the jacks get an ncaa draw where we get to play that close to home against two teams that were not loaded with wnba lottery picks. at the end of the year last year UCLA was a VERY GOOD team. they were really an ncaa team, like the jacks, but they had a rough beginning of the year because of injuries and that kept them out of the tourney, like the jacks!!

i venture that at the end of the year UCLA was very competitive with michigan and louisville, the teams that usd needed to beat to go to the final four. OF COURSE it helped that the jacks got to play ucla at home!! but people that i have spoken to who were at the usd vs michigan game said the arena was at least 75% usd fans. again, i would love the jacks to have that draw and get to play that close to home, instead of playing oregon in oregon

anyway, i will bring this particular novel to a close

but yes the jacks have struggled with usd as much as any team in the last 5 years. that is true! but usd has been very good. truthfully, they probably should have gone to the final four this year with the draw they had!! that means they are GOOD
but even with them having the best teams they have EVER HAD, when the jacks have had healthy teams, basically they dont beat us!! and while the jacks talent level appears to be getting better and better, usd has no current replacements for 2 or 3 all time greats

[jackdaniel]

I think a couple things

first remember for the last 4 or 5 years they have had some of the most talented teams they have EVER HAD! the Duffy girl, Lamb, and Sjerven are probably all in the top 5 players they have EVER had, along with N Seekamp and M Koupal. maybe there is another 1 or 2 i am forgetting, but the point is that they have recently been as talented as they have EVER been. and at the moment it does not look like they are going to continue to have that level of talent. i am NOT saying that they wont or cant!! but at the moment it looks like there is going to be a drop off

but that said, even with that talent, when we have been healthy we really have not actually struggled that much against them. YES we have had close games, of course, they have been very good, that should be expected, but in the time we had Macy we never lost to them in the SLT. since Macy we have had injuries. first year after Macy, Myah sat most of the year, and still we went to the SLT against them. That was the team that had ALL THREE of duffy, lamb, and sjerven. our best player was OUT and we still played them to a one possession game with about a minute to go

last year we beat them BOTH games we played them. we did not get to play them in SLT because again, INJURIES

this year we beat them at frost. and in the SLT yes we did have a terrible game. actually one of the worst i really remember from us!! and i believe it was because of ONE their familiarity with us and TWO paige being out. WITHOUT paige they just determined that they would do ANYTHING possible to NOT let MYAH beat them. they had one girl beating the crap out of her all the time!! and another two that were ready to close on her as soon as she moved toward the basket
Myah passed a lot and would have easily had 10 assists but nobody else could make a basket, except for Paiton from 3. TRULY if some team in the WNIT really wanted to beat us they should have watched that tape and tried to copy it!!
UCLA for instance, at the end of the game was trying to NOT let Tylee have the ball and trying to harass tylee, of course that worked a bit and it made tylee look like a small forward trying to be the main point guard
BUT they tried so hard to harass tylee they let Myah play one on one and score a couple buckets and set up another one in the last few minutes. she also had 24 pts.

so anyway, we have struggled, because they have been really good, and we have had injuries. the first year after macy, they had 3 all time greats and we had no myah and we were 0 and 3 vs them. that is the ONLY time that has happened!!!

since then we are 3 and 2 vs them and one of those two losses we had no paige.

OBVIOUSLY we will never know, but i would have loved to see the jacks get an ncaa draw where we get to play that close to home against two teams that were not loaded with wnba lottery picks. at the end of the year last year UCLA was a VERY GOOD team. they were really an ncaa team, like the jacks, but they had a rough beginning of the year because of injuries and that kept them out of the tourney, like the jacks!!

i venture that at the end of the year UCLA was very competitive with michigan and louisville, the teams that usd needed to beat to go to the final four. OF COURSE it helped that the jacks got to play ucla at home!! but people that i have spoken to who were at the usd vs michigan game said the arena was at least 75% usd fans. again, i would love the jacks to have that draw and get to play that close to home, instead of playing oregon in oregon

anyway, i will bring this particular novel to a close

but yes the jacks have struggled with usd as much as any team in the last 5 years. that is true! but usd has been very good. truthfully, they probably should have gone to the final four this year with the draw they had!! that means they are GOOD
but even with them having the best teams they have EVER HAD, when the jacks have had healthy teams, basically they dont beat us!! and while the jacks talent level appears to be getting better and better, usd has no current replacements for 2 or 3 all time greats

Thanks, I don't mind lengthy posts, you had a lot of interesting points to bring out, very interesting post ,enjoyed it much. I like to read from people that are way better informed and knowledgeable than me. Thanks again.

[bigticket1]

Max Abmas withdrawing from the draft and will return to ORU for his final season per Jeff Goodman.

[LetsGoRabbits]

Max Abmas withdrawing from the draft and will return to ORU for his final season per Jeff Goodman.

they should PROBABLY be the preseason favs. they have more KNOWN top players returning than any other team. they also have some potentially excellent incoming players

the jacks also have known players returning, but they lost their best 3 players off of last years roster. they have excellent players like alex and zeke returning. but it is still unknown how those guys will function as the main guy.
i believe the jacks will be very good!! they will be at the very top of the conference and have an excellent chance to go back to the ncaa! but they are going to need basically everyone on the roster to take a step up. either incoming players, most likely Mohrs, but maybe a freshman, or former role players will have to become the on the floor leaders this year!! those who do not fill the shoes of doug and baylor will have to fill the shoes of the players who move into the top spots

so while i believe in the jacks!! there is no doubt that ORU returns a much more ready to go team. their top guys from last year can very comfortably remain the top guys this year unless someone else takes the spot away from them

as for max good for him and the school to finish the journey they started together when he was a freshman. he is an excellent college player. and just like baylor he is a borderline nba guy, but nobody was able to convince him that he needed to play at a different school in order to find that out

[Justwin]

they should PROBABLY be the preseason favs. they have more KNOWN top players returning than any other team. they also have some potentially excellent incoming players

the jacks also have known players returning, but they lost their best 3 players off of last years roster. they have excellent players like alex and zeke returning. but it is still unknown how those guys will function as the main guy.
i believe the jacks will be very good!! they will be at the very top of the conference and have an excellent chance to go back to the ncaa! but they are going to need basically everyone on the roster to take a step up. either incoming players, most likely Mohrs, but maybe a freshman, or former role players will have to become the on the floor leaders this year!! those who do not fill the shoes of doug and baylor will have to fill the shoes of the players who move into the top spots

so while i believe in the jacks!! there is no doubt that ORU returns a much more ready to go team. their top guys from last year can very comfortably remain the top guys this year unless someone else takes the spot away from them

as for max good for him and the school to finish the journey they started together when he was a freshman. he is an excellent college player. and just like baylor he is a borderline nba guy, but nobody was able to convince him that he needed to play at a different school in order to find that out

I'm not sure why Max returned rather than transfer. Baylor had absolutely nothing left to prove in the summit league. If you think you have NBA talent go to the power conferences and play against top level talent every night and prove it. Time will tell on which decision works out for the best. I would say we lost 2 of the best players on the roster not 3.....

[NorCalJack]

I'm not sure why Max returned rather than transfer. Baylor had absolutely nothing left to prove in the summit league. If you think you have NBA talent go to the power conferences and play against top level talent every night and prove it. Time will tell on which decision works out for the best. I would say we lost 2 of the best players on the roster not 3.....

I disagree that you have to transfer out of the Summit or any other mid-major just so you can play in the NBA. There are a lot of examples of players in mid-majors that play in the NBA. Ja Morant played at Murray St., CJ McCollum played at Lehigh, Steph Curry played at Davidson, Damian Lillard played at Weber St. I could go on, but you either are an NBA player or your not. Just because you play for a power 5 conference does not mean you will play in the NBA. And likewise if you play in the Summit or any other mid-major does not mean you can't play in the NBA. George Hill played at IUPUI and has played in the NBA for a long time, he did not have to transfer to play in the NBA.

I just disagree with the narrative that I read that players have to transfer to give themselves a better chance of playing in the NBA. So if Max enjoys playing for ORU then he should stay. He is in a good system that allows him to show off his talents. If he is an NBA player, he will play in the NBA. If he is not an NBA player, then going to a larger conference will not make him an NBA player.

[goon]

I'm not sure why Max returned rather than transfer. Baylor had absolutely nothing left to prove in the summit league. If you think you have NBA talent go to the power conferences and play against top level talent every night and prove it. Time will tell on which decision works out for the best. I would say we lost 2 of the best players on the roster not 3.....

I think we lost the 3 best players on the team. Friedels on court talent could have been competing for conference player of the year if he would hsve stayed in the rotation.

[LetsGoRabbits]

I'm not sure why Max returned rather than transfer. Baylor had absolutely nothing left to prove in the summit league. If you think you have NBA talent go to the power conferences and play against top level talent every night and prove it. Time will tell on which decision works out for the best. I would say we lost 2 of the best players on the roster not 3.....

i guess i do not know where i have seen you make any other comments. so i do not know how much you have been paying attention to this conversation which has been going on for a LOT of months across multiple threads. and you like everyone is welcome to their opinion. and it has been a spirited discussion, which i find enjoyable))

but can someone who likes to do research maybe see if you can find some stats? SORRY not it!! i guess maybe i will look a bit but i would NOT encourage the rest of you to hold your breath waiting for me to research it extensively. THAT SAID, i will go on what i think is just a bit of a limb and say that i bet you there are FAR more players who have had meaningful roles in the nba who graduated from smaller schools vs players who transferred from a small school to a bigger school and then had a meaningful nba career

i know some of you have seen me say it before but norcal said it, and he and i have been saying it the whole time. the people who RUN NBA teams are the best basketball talent evaluators in the world!!! THEY freaking know who is an nba player and who is not. there have NOT been a bunch of nba guys who ended up on the street because they went to the wrong school!! if they were the right guys the NBA found them no matter where they went

of course some guys develop late or change something in their game and become a better player later. so MAYBE baylor or max or stanley umude or obanor will become something more down the road and have some worthwhile nba years. BUT currently NONE of them is an nba player. they are all possible end of the bench guys. they could go back and forth between nba and lesser leagues but they are NOT guys the nba is EXCITED to draft. and no school change is going to make the difference

DISCLAIMER: (for the point of pointing out that i do not think "my opinion is a fact or always correct) i know i say these things, and many things, matter of factly, as if there is a totally correct answer. and YES i do believe what i am saying and i believe i am correct!! but i do also always know there is some chance i am not

also i would say baylor definitely DID NOT accomplish everything he could accomplish in the summit. he only got his team to the ncaa ONCE for crying out loud (of course i know many extenuating events!!) but it is still true. MD made it 3 times. he did not take his team to a first ncaa win. i think those were more than worthwhile goals and they would have improved his individual status as well

also YES the jacks have other good players!! curious?? WHO do you think is the next best player? i believe it has to be zeke or AA. but come on Noah was VERY arguably the BEST basketball player on the team. remember when he and baylor were freshman? doug missed the SLT. it was Noah who totally carried the team, not baylor, and nearly beat PFW almost by himself. last year baylor hit the shot against WSU but he only had 11 that game and did not shoot well. he also had a HORRIBLE game against alabama. Noah had 23 in both of those games

i love AA!!!! i think i am nearly the president of the AA fan club)) haha and i sure hope that zeke is going to show that he is as good as any of those guys!! but i do not think there is any truly honest argument that Noah was not a basically equal part of what should have been a three headed monster of Doug, Baylor, and Noah. i do not know how he will do at JMU??? maybe it is not the best fit. i have heard he at least used to be kind of a home body, so being all the way in virginia might not work???? and as far as i know i am not positive that jmu is too good??? i do not believe noah has really ever played on a NOT GOOD team. i do have to say that i dont think a bunch of losing probably would not be the best thing for noah. so point is i have no idea how it will work our but i really think if we are honest we know that we lost the 3 top talents from last year roster