Summit League Men's BBall Attendance

[89rabbit]

One of our friends over on the ORU board did a little research and came up with this:

http://www.ncaa.org/stats/m_basketba...all_attend.pdf


ORU - 6,484 (ranked 84th)
NDSU - 2,625
Southern Utah - 2,604
Oakland - 2,334
SDSU - 1,850
UMKC - 1,505
IPFW - 1,491
IUPUI - 1,437
Western Illinois - 996
Centenary - 649


I expect that we would be near the top very shortly.


Go State!  

[SDSUcks]

Re: Summit League Men's BBall Attendance

One of our friends over on the ORU board did a little research and came up with this:

http://www.ncaa.org/stats/m_basketba...all_attend.pdf


ORU - 6,484 (ranked 84th)
NDSU - 2,625
Southern Utah - 2,604
Oakland - 2,334
SDSU - 1,850
UMKC - 1,505
IPFW - 1,491
IUPUI - 1,437
Western Illinois - 996
Centenary - 649


I expect that we would be near the top very shortly.


Go State!  

D1 or not that is not the kind of attendance that a conference at the highest level should expect. I definately wouldn't call that the increased exposure for programs that many SDSU fans expect either. This is not smack but an honest opinion. I think the Summit League might need some turnover of teams just to get some respectability from a fan perspective. The thing is these are not programs in transition that are struggling to find an identity unless most of the Summit League is still searching for an identity. The old Dakota State-U games themselves (counting both games) would outdraw an entire season worth of home games for some of these schools. That is not good folks. To say that the Summit would not welcome the State U rivalries in both states is probably not a good line of thinking after seeing those above numbers.

[2002jack]

Re: Summit League Men's BBall Attendance

[quote author=89rabbit link=1185420494/0#0 date=1185420494]One of our friends over on the ORU board did a little research and came up with this:

http://www.ncaa.org/stats/m_basketba...all_attend.pdf


ORU - 6,484 (ranked 84th)
NDSU - 2,625
Southern Utah - 2,604
Oakland - 2,334
SDSU - 1,850
UMKC - 1,505
IPFW - 1,491
IUPUI - 1,437
Western Illinois - 996
Centenary - 649


I expect that we would be near the top very shortly.


Go State!  

D1 or not that is not the kind of attendance that a conference at the highest level should expect.  I definately wouldn't call that the increased exposure for programs that many SDSU fans expect either.  This is not smack but an honest opinion.  I think the Summit League might need some turnover of teams just to get some respectability from a fan perspective.  The thing is these are not programs in transition that are struggling to find an identity unless most of the Summit League is still searching for an identity.  The old Dakota State-U games themselves (counting both games) would outdraw an entire season worth of home games for some of these schools.  That is not good folks.  To say that the Summit would not welcome the State U rivalries in both states is probably not a good line of thinking after seeing those above numbers.
[/quote]

Well I guess you have not been paying attention to what took place with the MidCon over the last half a year. The Summit League members have made a commitment to improve things. The name change and the new members are just part of an overall plan to improve quality, attendance, academics, etc. It will be interesting to see where the Summit League is at 5 to 10 years from now.

[89rabbit]

Re: Summit League Men's BBall Attendance

While I will admit that some of the schools in the Summit seem to need some attendance help (a topic that the Summit plan addresses), you also need to keep a few things in mind before you start puffing up your D-II chest.  When USD makes the move to D-I you will have very few Men's and Women's double headers, and in most cases you can't count on the opposing team bringing many fans.  The numbers that USD "generates" will for the most part be all on your faithful.  Like most things about the two NCAA divisions, it is nearly impossible to draw relevant conclusions by looking purely at a statistical comparison between D-II and D-I.  D-I is just a different bread of cat.  So don't go throwing stones at our Summit League brothers, you will find out what it is all about it in a little over a year.

Go State!  


P.S.  

Just for fun,

The Mid-Con Avg. 2,530 per game good enough for 17th place in D-I

The NCC Avg. 1,948 per game that would be good enough for 24th if it was a D-I conference

[SDSUcks]

Re: Summit League Men's BBall Attendance

I am not even speaking of women's attendance. At most schools the womens games don't draw many additional fans to the mens games. Maybe at SDSU but not at most places. Certainly it will hurt the women's attendance much more. I really have nothing to puff my chest out about regarding D2 because I have been in favor of USD and/or the NCC to move to D1 for awhile. Well before SDSU and NDSU announced their intentions. The point I am making is that just because something is labeled D1 doesn't make it necessarily better. Would I choose D1, sure I would but that isn't in anyway to knock the NCC because in many aspects the NCC was a D1 conference with a D2 label.

If you look at the numbers would that conference be better or would a conference of USD, UND, SDSU, NDSU, UNC, UNO, Augie, MSU, SCSU and Morningside be better as a D1 conference. Right now the old NCC would be, maybe that will change but it is what it is.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Summit League Men's BBall Attendance

I am not even speaking of women's attendance.  At most schools the womens games don't draw many additional fans to the mens games.  Maybe at SDSU but not at most places.  Certainly it will hurt the women's attendance much more.  I really have nothing to puff my chest out about regarding D2 because I have been in favor of USD and/or the NCC to move to D1 for awhile.  Well before SDSU and NDSU announced their intentions.  The point I am making is that just because something is labeled D1 doesn't make it necessarily better.  Would I choose D1, sure I would but that isn't in anyway to knock the NCC because in many aspects the NCC was a D1 conference with a D2 label.  

If you look at the numbers would that conference be better or would a conference of USD, UND, SDSU, NDSU, UNC, UNO, Augie, MSU, SCSU and Morningside be better as a D1 conference.  Right now the old NCC would be, maybe that will change but it is what it is.  

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. SDSU is going to look ahead and not look at what might have been if the other NCC schools would have joined in on the move.

[jackmd]

Re: Summit League Men's BBall Attendance

I am not even speaking of women's attendance.  At most schools the womens games don't draw many additional fans to the mens games.  Maybe at SDSU but not at most places.  Certainly it will hurt the women's attendance much more.  I really have nothing to puff my chest out about regarding D2 because I have been in favor of USD and/or the NCC to move to D1 for awhile.  Well before SDSU and NDSU announced their intentions.  The point I am making is that just because something is labeled D1 doesn't make it necessarily better.  Would I choose D1, sure I would but that isn't in anyway to knock the NCC because in many aspects the NCC was a D1 conference with a D2 label.  

If you look at the numbers would that conference be better or would a conference of USD, UND, SDSU, NDSU, UNC, UNO, Augie, MSU, SCSU and Morningside be better as a D1 conference.  Right now the old NCC would be, maybe that will change but it is what it is.  

You just don't get it do you? There is NO COMPARISON between DII and DI, none, stop trying to rationalize. These are two completely different leagues. Its like saying the best AAA baseball team could compete at the major league level. They might win a game or two or even draw more fans for certain games, but there is no way to compete because the leagues are different. You can keep telling yourself whatever you want to but that doesn't make it correct.

You're flat out wrong and thats not meant to be an insult.

[SDSUcks]

Re: Summit League Men's BBall Attendance

[quote author=SDSUcks link=1185420494/0#4 date=1185424393]I am not even speaking of women's attendance.  At most schools the womens games don't draw many additional fans to the mens games.  Maybe at SDSU but not at most places.  Certainly it will hurt the women's attendance much more.  I really have nothing to puff my chest out about regarding D2 because I have been in favor of USD and/or the NCC to move to D1 for awhile.  Well before SDSU and NDSU announced their intentions.  The point I am making is that just because something is labeled D1 doesn't make it necessarily better.  Would I choose D1, sure I would but that isn't in anyway to knock the NCC because in many aspects the NCC was a D1 conference with a D2 label.  

If you look at the numbers would that conference be better or would a conference of USD, UND, SDSU, NDSU, UNC, UNO, Augie, MSU, SCSU and Morningside be better as a D1 conference.  Right now the old NCC would be, maybe that will change but it is what it is.  

You just don't get it do you?  There is NO COMPARISON between DII and DI, none, stop trying to rationalize.  These are two completely different leagues.  Its like saying the best AAA baseball team could compete at the major league level.  They might win a game or two or even draw more fans for certain games, but there is no way to compete because the leagues are different.  You can keep telling yourself whatever you want to but that doesn't make it correct.

You're flat out wrong and thats not meant to be an insult.
[/quote]

Actually you are wrong. The lower level D1 leagues and high level D2 leagues are comparable in basketball. My gosh there is a much bigger difference between the Summit league and the Big Ten then there is between the Summit League and the most D2 leagues. If you took Winona State and put them in the Summit league next year there in no way that they would finish any lower than 2nd or 3rd place. Anyone that thinks different just doesn't get it. USD right now would finish no worse than .500 in the Summit League. I have no doubt about that. Those schools are not that good at basketball except for Oral Roberts. If Oral Roberts and Winona played a 7 game series I would put my money on the Warriors. They are actually more battle tested in D2 than Oral Roberts is in D1.

[89rabbit]

Re: Summit League Men's BBall Attendance

Oral Roberts beat Kansas in Allan Fieldhouse last season.  :  ;D  How many Mid-Con games have you seen?  My guess is Zero.  How did I do?  It is a waste of time to formulate opinions without fact.

Go State!  

[SDSUcks]

Re: Summit League Men's BBall Attendance

Oral Roberts beat Kansas in Allan Fieldhouse last season.  :  ;D  How many Mid-Con games have you seen?  My guess is Zero.  How did I do?  It is a waste of time to formulate opinions without fact.


Go State!  

If your guess would be zero that would actually be a troubling train of thought considering that SDSU is supposed to get more "exposure" by being in a D1 conference.

[89rabbit]

Re: Summit League Men's BBall Attendance

Answer the question.  How many Mid-Con games have you seen?  Please let us know so we can give your assertions their due.  As far as exposure goes, read the Argus Leader lately?  South Dakota's only D-I school seems to be getting the lion's share of the ink!   ;D

Better yet let's talk about ESPN appearances.  Our Men's team has been on Three times since we moved to D-I, I think that is one more then even the mighty Winona State Warriors, and three times more then USD has ever been on the network.  Maybe you would have been better off going to the NSIC with Augie.  ;D





Go State!  

[mitchell2006]

Re: Summit League Men's BBall Attendance

Ucks is right about one thing, The Summitt isn't exactly the most prestigious league in DI, though they are starting to take the correct steps to improve.

He is wrong about the level of competition though. I suggest you come up and catch a SDSU game next year Ucks. Even the amatuer eye can realize that these DI players are Bigger, Faster, Stronger and can jump out of the building. The difference between a DI and DII player isn't necessarily basketball skill, at least not at the lower levels, but size and athleticism.
Just look at SDSU, we have had players that would have been quality DII players in the NCC and have been below average players at the DI level. If it wasn't that different, than SDSU's transition probably would have looked alot better. And I know this is really gonna get you, but if SDSU played USD this year, SDSU would win. I know it's not even worth argueing about because it's not going to happen, but they would.

[Haldersham]

Re: Summit League Men's BBall Attendance

Ucks is right about one thing, The Summitt isn't exactly the most prestigious league in DI, though they are starting to take the correct steps to improve.

He is wrong about the level of competition though. I suggest you come up and catch a SDSU game next year Ucks. Even the amatuer eye can realize that these DI players are Bigger, Faster, Stronger and can jump out of the building. The difference between a DI and DII player isn't necessarily basketball skill, at least not at the lower levels, but size and athleticism.
Just look at SDSU, we have had players that would have been quality DII players in the NCC and have been below average players at the DI level. If it wasn't that different, than SDSU's transition probably would have looked alot better.  And I know this is really gonna get you, but if SDSU played USD this year, SDSU would win. I know it's not even worth argueing about because it's not going to happen, but they would.

I would generally agree with everyone's comments about the Summit League and the improvement by going to D1. I do think that this coming year is a big question mark. I would like to see this year as big improvement, but until the current roster finds a way to play as a unit, we are going to struggle. No question there is more talent than in the past 3 years, but can it play as a unit? I not agreeing with Ucks, just being a little skeptical. When we play as a unit, we usually win and attendence will greatly improve.

[juice]

Re: Summit League Men's BBall Attendance

Wow, I had no idea that the Summit League was struggling that much with attendance. They only had a couple of teams draw over an average of 2,400 fans. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see SDSU be #2 in attendance next year. I didn't really have much hope for USD to be accepted into the Summit League anytime soon, but I have to think that we would look a little bit appealing to them. There just doesn't seem to be much interest at all at some of these Schools. While the Summit isn't a top level D-I conference, I certainly don't think it's one of the bottom either. I wonder what the attendance figures are for some of the conferences that I do consider to be the bottom of D-I. I will be very happy if USD can get a bid into the Summit in the near future.

Not that it matters, but since it has been brought up, I thought I would weigh in on the topic. I do think that Winona St. would have faired very well in the Mid-Con these last couple of years, maybe second place. I saw them beat the Gophers last year, and they also beat Drake.

In response to Jacksfan06, a big reason the transition hasn't gone that well for the men is because your men haven't been as good as they used to be. Even Nagy, and many on here, have admitted that. We all know that's true, but we also know that it won't stay like that forever, and that you are probably starting to get things turned around already. If I was a Jack fan I would be encouraged by the fact that we haven't been as good recently as we were during the last 10 years of DII. Because that would tell me that we aren't that far off from competing for a conference title. I would think if we could just get to where we were at the end of our DII days (which shouldn't be hard now that you are completing the transition) then we will be right in the thick of things, and if we improve on where we were at then we will be a major contender. I would be encouraged by the fact that we wouldn't have to be getting a team full of unbelievable athletes that we've never seen in these parts before. To win the conference you will probably have to get a few players that you were unable to get as a DII, but not that many. I'm very confident that your 1997 and 98 teams would have been in the top half of the Mid-Con. Obviously I'm talking just the guys here. Let's face it, your women are already the best team in the Summit.

[JimmyJack]

Re: Summit League Men's BBall Attendance

I'm one of those people who would like to see USD in the Summit League. Why not? If the reasoning is "just so they struggle in transition like we did" that's not really good enough. Why would we wish ill for those student athletes, many of them from South Dakota? They're not part of the century of bad blood between the two universities. They're just college students, like our athletes, trying to have a good experience and get a degree. I would love an opportunity to match our student athletes against theirs.

Regarding the MBB team: This year will be the first where we have a full complement of D1-caliber players. Combine that with more regular scheduling of games (Thursdays and Saturdays) and you'll see significantly better attendance. It's a good year to get season tickets and start building up your priority, because before too long seats are going to be at a premium in Frost just as they were for the Women's NIT.