Summit League Building Boom

[Southeast]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

I sat in the upper sideline bleachers for NDSU this year and felt pretty good about sightlines. The chairbacks behind the benches were fixed so they didn't block views from above. Last year I sat in the baseline upper bleachers, and it was awful. I enjoyed both games, but I won't be paying to sit on the end bleachers again. I would pay to sit in the upper bleachers on the sideline.

How quickly we've forgotten how terrible the sight lines were on the sideline with a standing student section behind the benches. The last time I sat there under that configuration, I couldn't see at least 1/3 of the court. At that time, the upper end bleachers were a much better viewpoint.

Sightlines were better, but not that much better in bleacher packed Frost. I had terrible views for some USD games back in the day when people were crammed standing at the railings and walking by on 3 foot wide concourses. And there was no video board to try to watch what you couldn't see either.

I sat in the sideline bleachers for NDSU also, and "sightlines" did not cross my mind once because I could see the whole court fine. I was in the top row, however - but way down even with the baseline on the end. I love those top row seats. Built in back rest, no one's knees in your back, close enough to the action in a small arena, and you can stand as much as you want without bugging anyone.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

I think I've heard that too. I'm just saying once they start looking at cost, roll out will be attractive because it will be much cheaper. I'm no engineer, but it seems like a MAJOR undertaking to install permanent seating in the upper level.

Understand the cost, but a big upgrade needs to be made in restrooms and concessions. With a roll-out where would you construct these amenities?

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

Understand the cost, but a big upgrade needs to be made in restrooms and concessions. With a roll-out where would you construct these amenities?

I agree with you. Don't forget to add suites or box seating to the list of needed upgrades.

I'm just saying it would be a pretty major renovation to install permanent seating (including premium boxes), restrooms, and concessions.

Faced with spending $30 million or $5 million, it becomes a more difficult choice. I'm pulling these numbers from the air, but the idea is that it will not be easy or cheap to renovate the upper level for permanent seating. My dad (and many other South Dakotans) would quickly go into want vs. need mode when the cost of choice A was triple the cost of choice B.

[MaddogJack]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

I would say during my years in school 98-2002, most of the NCC games had a larger crowd then the current Summit games. According to the media guide, the average attendance in 1997-98 was 5350. Last years average attendance (the highest since DI) was 3625. Somethings not right. They messed up the sight lines for G.A. to the point that alot of people don't enjoy going. Including me. I only go if I get reserved seats from someone.

I might be part of the problem.

Yeah, me too. In the late 80's and early 90's - we used to be squeezed in on the bleachers, pretty tight. You could barely get a bottle of Southern Comfort between you and your neighbor. Come to think of it, if we had taken out all the bottles - we might have topped 10,000!

Now - I'm like you, I don't mind the chairbacks and I shudder to think of sitting on a bleacher. <<spoiled?>>

[jack power]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

I agree with you. Don't forget to add suites or box seating to the list of needed upgrades.

I'm just saying it would be a pretty major renovation to install permanent seating (including premium boxes), restrooms, and concessions.

Faced with spending $30 million or $5 million, it becomes a more difficult choice. I'm pulling these numbers from the air, but the idea is that it will not be easy or cheap to renovate the upper level for permanent seating. My dad (and many other South Dakotans) would quickly go into want vs. need mode when the cost of choice A was triple the cost of choice B.

FWIW this is what i was told a couple of months ago. After the performance center comes on line,that will clear out a lot of congestion in Frost (obviously). Major redo of bathrooms and concessions,how they do it and improve overall congestion ,i don't know. Get rid of wooden bleachers,replace with seat backs including bowling in the corners except for allowing area that allows fans to access seats. Plan is also to have suites on east and west sides at the track level. Redo the seating above and below the suites.

[filbert]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

Are they still thinking about putting a dedicated wrestling/volleyball facility south of Frost and building some kind of common mezzanine/concessions/rest room area between that facility and Frost?

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

Are they still thinking about putting a dedicated wrestling/volleyball facility south of Frost and building some kind of common mezzanine/concessions/rest room area between that facility and Frost?

You and many others have probably seen the 2025 Master Plan. In the plan there is a dedicated volleyball/wrestling competition and basketball practice facility south of Frost and wrestling practice addition to the east. Haven't heard or seen if any of the 2025 master plans have been changed.
http://www.gojacks.com/downloads2/39...2208&DB_LANG=C

[goon]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

You and many others have probably seen the 2025 Master Plan. In the plan there is a dedicated volleyball/wrestling competition and basketball practice facility south of Frost and wrestling practice addition to the east. Haven't heard or seen if any of the 2025 master plans have been changed.
http://www.gojacks.com/downloads2/39...2208&DB_LANG=C

I think think they should renovate the barn, take out the classrooms, and put in a new floor, and hoops and make it the basketball practice facility, new modern lockerrooms, and a weight room just for basketball with some meeting and game film rooms for practice. take out the racketball courts and baseball and softball stuff there and let basketball and maybe volley ball and wrestling move into there. at least basketball. If i had oodles of money that would be one thing i would pay for. It would be an old history rich building but with modern hoops and locker rooms etc and dont use it for class space anymore.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

I think think they should renovate the barn, take out the classrooms, and put in a new floor, and hoops and make it the basketball practice facility, new modern lockerrooms, and a weight room just for basketball with some meeting and game film rooms for practice. take out the racketball courts and baseball and softball stuff there and let basketball and maybe volley ball and wrestling move into there. at least basketball. If i had oodles of money that would be one thing i would pay for. It would be an old history rich building but with modern hoops and locker rooms etc and dont use it for class space anymore.

The Barn is going to be renovated but probably not what you are looking for. When the HPER (now called Dept. of Health & Nutritional Sciences) broke away from the Athletic Dept. they moved their offices/labs to the Barn.

The College’s of Education and Human Sciences current priorities:
The Barn Restoration will create academic and research space in the Intramural Building for students and faculty in the Health and Nutritional Sciences Department. The restoration of the Intramural Building will include additional goals to retain, restore and emphasize the architectural features that reinforce its historical appearance.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

You and many others have probably seen the 2025 Master Plan. In the plan there is a dedicated volleyball/wrestling competition and basketball practice facility south of Frost and wrestling practice addition to the east. Haven't heard or seen if any of the 2025 master plans have been changed.
http://www.gojacks.com/downloads2/39...2208&DB_LANG=C

Here's what the master plan says about Frost:

Frost Arena – Update with modern seating, remodeled restrooms and concession venues

To play devil's advocate, modern seating could mean a whole host of things. One of which is permanent seating. But roll out chairbacks or even new bleachers could be considered more modern than the existing wooden bleachers also.

Remodeled restrooms and concession venues sounds like fixing up the existing facilities, not building new ones.

The master plan leaves a lot of room for interpretation, and people will read it quite differently based on their viewpoint. I would wager that the financial conditions at the time of the project will determine what kind of improvements go into Frost. Maybe that's Dr. Obvious.

[goon]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

The Barn is going to be renovated but probably not what you are looking for. When the HPER (now called Dept. of Health & Nutritional Sciences) broke away from the Athletic Dept. they moved their offices/labs to the Barn.

The College’s of Education and Human Sciences current priorities:
The Barn Restoration will create academic and research space in the Intramural Building for students and faculty in the Health and Nutritional Sciences Department. The restoration of the Intramural Building will include additional goals to retain, restore and emphasize the architectural features that reinforce its historical appearance.

Crud. well i could think of worse things to do. Being a hHPER major thats good, they needed out of the hper, or a better space there. Its like their offices were in a boiler closest it felt like. I suppose getting kicked out of the hper and no other building to really call home, but i cant imagine that the barn would be the most ideal spot. Under the circumstances of adding a new building or building on to the HEN house or nursing building or what ever its called now. not many other options left. to bad they couldnt get space in the performance center.

[goon]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

Here's what the master plan says about Frost:

Frost Arena – Update with modern seating, remodeled restrooms and concession venues

To play devil's advocate, modern seating could mean a whole host of things. One of which is permanent seating. But roll out chairbacks or even new bleachers could be considered more modern than the existing wooden bleachers also.

Remodeled restrooms and concession venues sounds like fixing up the existing facilities, not building new ones.

The master plan leaves a lot of room for interpretation, and people will read it quite differently based on their viewpoint. I would wager that the financial conditions at the time of the project will determine what kind of improvements go into Frost. Maybe that's Dr. Obvious.

When i was a student, I am pretty sure the idea was to try to put permanant seating in and now pullout seats. atleast on the upper level. I am sure it will be dictated by the money available but they wanted to fill it in as much as possible and have seating in the corners to help off set the loss by putting in chairback seating.

[Hammersmith]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

Not trying to flame , but isn't that basketball capacity for the NDSU new building kind of low ? You would think that you would have the capability to draw more than 6,000 in a new building. If SDSU were building a new basketball facility , you would think 7,500 - 8,000 would be a realistic capacity.

I don't want to derail the nice thread you've got going, but I want to add to FargoBison's answer to your question.

When it come down to it, NDSU had to make a choice: 2000-3000 more seats or $10-15 million and 2-5 years. I'm not sure how well you guys know the BSA, but the arena is only 1/3 - 1/2 of the total square footage of the building. The rest is offices, locker rooms for a bunch of sports, training facilities, classrooms, weight rooms, and the like. That stuff is all getting redone and it's spendy. The current plan is to demolish the BSA to its steel frame and some concrete. Within that frame, we can only fit about 5700-6000 seats with modern amenities. But saving that frame and concrete is saving us $10-12 million in materials and labor. Plus, we don't have luxury of bonding a portion of the cost like you guys can. North Dakota is stupid in that it requires us to have 100% of the cost raised before the shovel hits dirt. It has taken us forever to raise the $38-ish million we've got, and another $10-15 million would add another 2-5 years of fundraising not to mention an additional year of construction.

Because of the compromise, I have to believe NDSU does not consider this project as a true long term fix. It's definitely better than a short term fix, so consider it a medium(10-15 years?). We will need to build a brand new, standalone facility at some point in the 7-000-10,000 range, but this will get us through the next decade or so.

[goon]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

I don't want to derail the nice thread you've got going, but I want to add to FargoBison's answer to your question.

When it come down to it, NDSU had to make a choice: 2000-3000 more seats or $10-15 million and 2-5 years. I'm not sure how well you guys know the BSA, but the arena is only 1/3 - 1/2 of the total square footage of the building. The rest is offices, locker rooms for a bunch of sports, training facilities, classrooms, weight rooms, and the like. That stuff is all getting redone and it's spendy. The current plan is to demolish the BSA to its steel frame and some concrete. Within that frame, we can only fit about 5700-6000 seats with modern amenities. But saving that frame and concrete is saving us $10-12 million in materials and labor. Plus, we don't have luxury of bonding a portion of the cost like you guys can. North Dakota is stupid in that it requires us to have 100% of the cost raised before the shovel hits dirt. It has taken us forever to raise the $38-ish million we've got, and another $10-15 million would add another 2-5 years of fundraising not to mention an additional year of construction.

Because of the compromise, I have to believe NDSU does not consider this project as a true long term fix. It's definitely better than a short term fix, so consider it a medium(10-15 years?). We will need to build a brand new, standalone facility at some point in the 7-000-10,000 range, but this will get us through the next decade or so.

Thats sort of what i think frost needs. a better fix for the next 10-20 years then look at a new facility in that 8-10 range. I dont see front meeting our needs in 15 years. Totally makes sense why they would do as they are planning.

[FargoBison]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

UNO arena update....

http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/U...298920221.html