Investigate the Big Sky?

[Nidaros]

Re: Investigate the Big Sky?

Discussion on the state of various conferences seem to focus on the present with no mention of the near-term future. Are there other mid-major conferences in which the member schools are improving and adding facilities at the rate taking place in the Summit League? USD, SDSU, NDSU all have new projects either in process, starting this summer, or starting in the next year. Three to four years from now, Summit facilities will be some of the best mid-major facilities.

I'm with filbert in his assessment that all conferences, except those at the very top of the food chain, have a certain amount of shakiness. If one takes a little longer-term view, the Summit has the foundation to be one of the more attractive mid-majors.

I think our moderators are on to something. This and other posts make a great deal of sense. Oakland leaves and we kind of panic. Have no fear little flock.

[Nidaros]

Re: Investigate the Big Sky?

I was wondering if anyone would call him out on that. The Big Sky is a terrible BB conference. Take UM and Weber away and the entire conference is IUPUI circa 2012/13. And yes that inclues the Whioux.

As for the OP, living in Colorado I would love to see SDSU come this way. However, when I think logically the Big Sky isn't an option unless the western schools split from the Montana/Utah/Colorado schools. There is no way I see that happening so lets see what Douple has in mind.

To you Yote fans, how would you propose that USD pay for a move to the Big Sky? From everything I have read and heard USD has no money. That seems to be the biggest reason they took the MVFC/Summit membership over the Big Sky.

I would have to agree, with this as well. I seen one BSC opponent play in Brookings and that was Montana, when we were just starting the transition period. Seems like one of the players for Montana was from Spearfish or Sturgis. But we came back and beat them on their own floor this year in double overtime so BB at SDSU has progressed, meanwhile Montana is the same or about the same and thoroughly got romped by Syracuse in the first round of the big dance 88 to 37. I believe that was the final.
BTW Yoteforever was a very good football player for USD, so that would explain his bias towards the BSC.

[joeboo22]

Re: Investigate the Big Sky?

With Idaho joining the Big Sky for all sports but football would they let UND and or UNC leave in all sports but football?

[yoteforever]

Re: Investigate the Big Sky?

I would have to agree, with this as well. I seen one BSC opponent play in Brookings and that was Montana, when we were just starting the transition period. Seems like one of the players for Montana was from Spearfish or Sturgis. But we came back and beat them on their own floor this year in double overtime so BB at SDSU has progressed, meanwhile Montana is the same or about the same and thoroughly got romped by Syracuse in the first round of the big dance 88 to 37. I believe that was the final.BTW Yoteforever was a very good football player for USD, so that would explain his bias towards the BSC.

Quite frankly I don't have a bias now one way or another. I thought I said it pretty well in that the MVC is a great league, and I feel very fortunate to be part of it. If I only looked at it from a football perspective, I would have never started this thread. In all candor, I am not advocating any school in the Dakotas apply to the Big Sky Conference. What I simply meant when I started this thread, as any good businessman should do, and that is be constantly be aware of the current environment we are in, and do "due diligence" in exploring any alternative avenues. I won't argue that there isn't a league that doesn't have some risk. And I am not saying we should join the BSC. What I am saying is our AD's and Presidents be aware of any alternatives that might be out there in the event of a implosion of our current league. If the crap hit the fan, and you as boosters went to your AD and said what are we going to do now, and his response was..."I never saw this coming"......,would you really think your AD was on top of the situation? I would say no, but you all might disagree. As to whether USD could afford the travel, I'm sure it would have an impact. And if you think for one moment your department is flush with cash, you have you heads in the sand. However, if the Summit would implode, and say become a 6 team league, think of the travel expenses you would incur in all sports trying to get full schedule. I know from history on here that because I am a Yote, your natural tendency is to discount or rip apart anything I say. But from a business point of view, doesn't it make sense to keep all options open? We certainly feel that if you the the opportunity to go elsewhere you wouldn't think for 5 seconds the implication it had on USD, and the same would go for us. That's why you need to know just what in the hell is going on, and what the landscape out there is at all times. I love the MVFC. Great football. I am just thinking about all sports.

[OldHare]

Re: Investigate the Big Sky?

YF; You had indicated that there is a concern for all sports. For example the baseball members are now treading water for the required teams for any AQ situations. What other sports on the landscape might bring a warning light? At the same time, I see the basketball and the track & field programs as healthy. Are the cons strong enough for everyone to be milling around looking for an escape at the first tremor?

[Nidaros]

Re: Investigate the Big Sky?

Quite frankly I don't have a bias now one way or another. I thought I said it pretty well in that the MVC is a great league, and I feel very fortunate to be part of it. If I only looked at it from a football perspective, I would have never started this thread. In all candor, I am not advocating any school in the Dakotas apply to the Big Sky Conference. What I simply meant when I started this thread, as any good businessman should do, and that is be constantly be aware of the current environment we are in, and do "due diligence" in exploring any alternative avenues. I won't argue that there isn't a league that doesn't have some risk. And I am not saying we should join the BSC. What I am saying is our AD's and Presidents be aware of any alternatives that might be out there in the event of a implosion of our current league. If the crap hit the fan, and you as boosters went to your AD and said what are we going to do now, and his response was..."I never saw this coming"......,would you really think your AD was on top of the situation? I would say no, but you all might disagree. As to whether USD could afford the travel, I'm sure it would have an impact. And if you think for one moment your department is flush with cash, you have you heads in the sand. However, if the Summit would implode, and say become a 6 team league, think of the travel expenses you would incur in all sports trying to get full schedule. I know from history on here that because I am a Yote, your natural tendency is to discount or rip apart anything I say. But from a business point of view, doesn't it make sense to keep all options open? We certainly feel that if you the the opportunity to go elsewhere you wouldn't think for 5 seconds the implication it had on USD, and the same would go for us. That's why you need to know just what in the hell is going on, and what the landscape out there is at all times. I love the MVFC. Great football. I am just thinking about all sports.

Thanks for your clarification. I do agree, we have to be aware of alternatives, and I think we are aware. David Chicoine is the president of the SL president's council or is that the MVFC. Not sure, but he is a very astute man, having been a faculty rep at the U of Ill for several years before coming to SDSU. I suspect he is fully aware of what is going on and he is known to speak very often with President Abbott. But with new facilities and new members to D1 such as USD and UNO, the SL will not drop to 5 or 6 school member leagues. Add Denver and drop UMKC and you have a move to more solidarity. For that Trojan guy from Arkansas to suggest that UMKC leaving the Summit was proof that they did not like the Dakota's and their winters is just plain stupid. Maybe it's the other way around. I suspect as in Omaha, in KC there are people who hardly know these institutions exist, let alone they support these empty gyms with their butts in the seats which is often the case in KC and at times it holds true for Omaha.

Lastly when you folks at USD find out that SDSU has more cash on hand, you often get your rears in gear and raise more. After all we are just a bunch of farmers. Do you suppose President Abbott has nudged someone shoulder at the Foundation and shown them the SDSU number of 255 million and change?

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Investigate the Big Sky?

Quite frankly I don't have a bias now one way or another. I thought I said it pretty well in that the MVC is a great league, and I feel very fortunate to be part of it. If I only looked at it from a football perspective, I would have never started this thread. In all candor, I am not advocating any school in the Dakotas apply to the Big Sky Conference. What I simply meant when I started this thread, as any good businessman should do, and that is be constantly be aware of the current environment we are in, and do "due diligence" in exploring any alternative avenues. I won't argue that there isn't a league that doesn't have some risk. And I am not saying we should join the BSC. What I am saying is our AD's and Presidents be aware of any alternatives that might be out there in the event of a implosion of our current league. If the crap hit the fan, and you as boosters went to your AD and said what are we going to do now, and his response was..."I never saw this coming"......,would you really think your AD was on top of the situation? I would say no, but you all might disagree. As to whether USD could afford the travel, I'm sure it would have an impact. And if you think for one moment your department is flush with cash, you have you heads in the sand. However, if the Summit would implode, and say become a 6 team league, think of the travel expenses you would incur in all sports trying to get full schedule. I know from history on here that because I am a Yote, your natural tendency is to discount or rip apart anything I say. But from a business point of view, doesn't it make sense to keep all options open? We certainly feel that if you the the opportunity to go elsewhere you wouldn't think for 5 seconds the implication it had on USD, and the same would go for us. That's why you need to know just what in the hell is going on, and what the landscape out there is at all times. I love the MVFC. Great football. I am just thinking about all sports.

In this light, I can agree with you. Another reason to keep options open and explore alternatives, is that it would give the league and its members leverage with other conferences. For example, if there was a standing invite to take USD/SDSU/NDSU/WIU into the BSC, would the MVFC schools become a little more interested in letting us into the real MVC? Or if the Summit could sponsor football...

One other thing people have touched on is the basketball tournament. We are all biased because of geography, but this is a really big deal for the conference. They make a ton of money by having the tournament in Sioux Falls in front of sold out crowds.

A question for someone more knowledgable: how does Summit tournament revenue compare to the NCAA tournament share received by the conference? I would guess the dollars are relatively comparable.

[FargoBison]

Re: Investigate the Big Sky?

If the Summit wants to strengthen itself long term it needs to add one or two MN schools. The conference needs more schools closer to the Dakotas. It basically needs to become a DI NCC, I know some people don't like that idea but it is the reality of our situation.

[jackmd]

Re: Investigate the Big Sky?

My personal feeling is that a viable Summit league is a much better option than a shift to the Big Sky. If the Summit is not viable I would prefer exhausting every opportunity to find a midwest league before settling on a Big Sky invite. I am in no way inferring that SD State would be or is being considered for any of these things. The Big Sky is not a better conference than the Summit/MVFC arrangement we have now.

[joeybrownerHOF]

Re: Investigate the Big Sky?

My personal feeling is that a viable Summit league is a much better option than a shift to the Big Sky. If the Summit is not viable I would prefer exhausting every opportunity to find a midwest league before settling on a Big Sky invite. I am in no way inferring that SD State would be or is being considered for any of these things. The Big Sky is not a better conference than the Summit/MVFC arrangement we have now.

I second the above. However, as a Yote fan, I do feel that USD has to be aware of the possiblilty that NDSU/SDSU/UNO are much more attractive to the HL if such league decides to move west. Again, I prefer the SL/MVFC combo over the BSC but USD might not have the HL option and could then be looking at the WAC.

[LakeJack]

Re: Investigate the Big Sky?

Quite frankly I don't have a bias now one way or another. I thought I said it pretty well in that the MVC is a great league, and I feel very fortunate to be part of it. If I only looked at it from a football perspective, I would have never started this thread. In all candor, I am not advocating any school in the Dakotas apply to the Big Sky Conference. What I simply meant when I started this thread, as any good businessman should do, and that is be constantly be aware of the current environment we are in, and do "due diligence" in exploring any alternative avenues. I won't argue that there isn't a league that doesn't have some risk. And I am not saying we should join the BSC. What I am saying is our AD's and Presidents be aware of any alternatives that might be out there in the event of a implosion of our current league. If the crap hit the fan, and you as boosters went to your AD and said what are we going to do now, and his response was..."I never saw this coming"......,would you really think your AD was on top of the situation? I would say no, but you all might disagree. As to whether USD could afford the travel, I'm sure it would have an impact. And if you think for one moment your department is flush with cash, you have you heads in the sand. However, if the Summit would implode, and say become a 6 team league, think of the travel expenses you would incur in all sports trying to get full schedule. I know from history on here that because I am a Yote, your natural tendency is to discount or rip apart anything I say. But from a business point of view, doesn't it make sense to keep all options open? We certainly feel that if you the the opportunity to go elsewhere you wouldn't think for 5 seconds the implication it had on USD, and the same would go for us. That's why you need to know just what in the hell is going on, and what the landscape out there is at all times. I love the MVFC. Great football. I am just thinking about all sports.

This is going to sound snarky or maybe smacky, but that is not my intent. I have every faith that our leadership is aware of their surroundings and is working for the best interests of our school. After all they saw that a move from D-II to D-I was ultimately in the best interests of our institution. We have a track record of having vision. This is the snarky part - as a USD fan I can understand why you might feel the need to sound the alarm to make sure your leadership is on the ball. I believe in our leaders and I have faith that they will do what is best for SDSU. I am confident that they know more about what is going on then anyone on this board does.

[Yote53]

Re: Investigate the Big Sky?

USD has had recent experience managing the travel budget when it was in the Great West. We were going from the west coast, to Jersey, to Houston in that conference. While a MVFC/Summit travel budget is much more desirable, I don't think travel in the Big Sky is too scary.

As to money, I just heard that USD has the funding in place for the new arena. Digging may start as early as this fall. I did hear they may put off the start until spring in order to raise more funds for some amenities they'd like to put in right away. Honestly, USD is getting it done when it comes to capital projects, where they need to kick it in gear is when it comes to the annual operating budget.

When you look at the Dakotas I see capital improvement projects, increasing budgets, improving programs that are going to be a force in the mid-major level of D1 athletics. While I have bagged on the Summit in the past I think it is solid with a core of the Dakotas, WIU, and DU, and even UNO. Bring in UND and UNC to really solidify things. That's why I think the Summit schools need to make a power play of sorts to force UND and UNC football into the MVFC so we can bring them into the Summit. If that option was publically on the table UND would have to accept. The political pressure and the resumption of the football series would be too great to resist.

I've said on the USD board, as our programs continue to grow I could also see the state institutions of the Valley joining with the Dakotas to create a Big Ten lite conference. This is an extreme long-term outlook.

[OldHare]

Re: Investigate the Big Sky?

I second the above. However, as a Yote fan, I do feel that USD has to be aware of the possiblilty that NDSU/SDSU/UNO are much more attractive to the HL if such league decides to move west. Again, I prefer the SL/MVFC combo over the BSC but USD might not have the HL option and could then be looking at the WAC.

I think your paranoia about the Horizon moving west is excessive at this time. They are quite content with a small footprint that allows short bus trips to all games. Our Midwest rural geography is not attractive to many of the members of the Horizon. I do not see the Dakotas rising to the top of the Horizon expansion soon. It would be great to read in the paper about new teams in the Summit. I would bet that the Oakland people wished for similar news about the Horizon in today's news. Meanwhile, we can circulate nervous stories and wait for announcements that will never come soon enough.

[joeybrownerHOF]

Re: Investigate the Big Sky?

I think your paranoia about the Horizon moving west is excessive at this time. They are quite content with a small footprint that allows short bus trips to all games. Our Midwest rural geography is not attractive to many of the members of the Horizon. I do not see the Dakotas rising to the top of the Horizon expansion soon. It would be great to read in the paper about new teams in the Summit. I would bet that the Oakland people wished for similar news about the Horizon in today's news. Meanwhile, we can circulate nervous stories and wait for announcements that will never come soon enough.

Paranoia? I guess the use of aware, mights, if and possibility got lost in my comment

[jackmd]

Re: Investigate the Big Sky?

USD has had recent experience managing the travel budget when it was in the Great West. We were going from the west coast, to Jersey, to Houston in that conference. While a MVFC/Summit travel budget is much more desirable, I don't think travel in the Big Sky is too scary.

As to money, I just heard that USD has the funding in place for the new arena. Digging may start as early as this fall. I did hear they may put off the start until spring in order to raise more funds for some amenities they'd like to put in right away. Honestly, USD is getting it done when it comes to capital projects, where they need to kick it in gear is when it comes to the annual operating budget.

When you look at the Dakotas I see capital improvement projects, increasing budgets, improving programs that are going to be a force in the mid-major level of D1 athletics. While I have bagged on the Summit in the past I think it is solid with a core of the Dakotas, WIU, and DU, and even UNO. Bring in UND and UNC to really solidify things. That's why I think the Summit schools need to make a power play of sorts to force UND and UNC football into the MVFC so we can bring them into the Summit. If that option was publically on the table UND would have to accept. The political pressure and the resumption of the football series would be too great to resist.

I've said on the USD board, as our programs continue to grow I could also see the state institutions of the Valley joining with the Dakotas to create a Big Ten lite conference. This is an extreme long-term outlook.

I concur. I do not support bailing on the Summit for a spot in the Big Sky or Horizon.

I have also been told that the funding is in place for the new arena and the ground breaking will be this fall. The USD Foundation and the institution excel at raising capital funds.