UMKC to the WAC?

[zooropa]

Re: UMKC to the WAC?

Tom Douple was just on KWSN a while ago, shooting down the whole UMKC story about other teams getting ready to leave the conference--he implied that the rumors were horse sh*t (he didn't actually use the phrase, but came damn close).

There's no 'getting ready to leave'.

Oakland isn't "getting ready to leave" the Summit. Nor are SDSU or NDSU. To say a school is 'getting ready to leave' implies that the decision to leave is up to them. It's not. They won't leave unless they get an invitation.

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Further, I remain amazed that people view the XDSUs to the Valley as a done deal, should Creighton leave: Understand this--the Valley wants to be a multiple bid conference in men's basketball and SDSU and NDSU have very thin resumes in that regard. There are other universities that are better fits for the MVC's geography and their desire for multiple bids. Don't let the name fool you, the MVC exists largely in the Ohio Valley. Brookings would be an extreme outlier if Creighton goes, and Fargo that much more so.

With SDSU and NDSU, the Valley would no longer be a bus-league and it would not have a significantly higher tournament profile.

I don't expect any of this to make a dent with those who think these schools are "logical" fits in the Valley. I know it's altogether more flattering to imagine SDSU in the same conference as Missouri State and Bradley, but the facts are that the xDSUs bring very little to the table in the only sport the MVC cares about, and that with Creighton gone, they are a long ways from the rest of the MVC.

[LakeJack]

Re: UMKC to the WAC?

I don't think it is accurate to say that the Valley only cares about basketball. Clearly there are members that in fact do care about football. It seems that Presidents/Chancellors care about academics. These sorts of decisions like all decisions are made by people, so personalities and relationships matter. Perceptions matter. Lots of things to consider besides geography.

I don't think SDSU & NDSU to the Valley is a slam dunk, I also don't think that it is out of the realm of possibility. One thing is for sure it doesn't matter until you get an invitation and our current conference situation is a good place to be but we would be foolish not to think about the what ifs.

[LakeJack]

Re: UMKC to the WAC?

I will say that with every passing minute, I am buying into the idea more and more that the leadership at UMKC just isn't very bright and there is no other shoe waiting to fall.

[zooropa]

Re: UMKC to the WAC?

I don't think it is accurate to say that the Valley only cares about basketball.

When you consider that the Valley's current TV deal nets about $300k to each school, and that 75-80% of all conference revenue comes from the NCAA tournament*..........

What do SDSU & NDSU bring to the table?

This isn't like Nebraska to the Big Ten, where a school in a predominantly rural state paradoxically increased the marketability of the product on TV.

*http://www.foxsportsmidwest.com/page...blockID=831923

[FargoBison]

Re: UMKC to the WAC?

How are ORU, Belmont, Milwaukee, Denver, Murray State...anymore likely to be more successful in basketball than NDSU and SDSU over the next decade? Sorry to break it to you but the Valley can't add FBS schools and it isn't like Butler is sitting there anymore.

[jacksfan29]

Re: UMKC to the WAC?

Why would Creighton leave the MVC?

Money and prestige. If CU gets an invite they are gone.

By the way, that was me who mentioned Belmont. So answer the question, why would Belmont leave the OVC to go to a Creightonless MVC? How does that benefit them? And yes, the only way anyone gets an invite to the MVC is if CU leaves.

[zooropa]

Re: UMKC to the WAC?

Money and prestige.

...

why would Belmont leave the OVC to go to a Creightonless MVC?

I present to you, the answer to your own question.

[zooropa]

Re: UMKC to the WAC?

How are ORU, Belmont, Milwaukee, Denver, Murray State...anymore likely to be more successful in basketball than NDSU and SDSU over the next decade?

Murray State and Belmont do not have a worse tournament pedigree than the xDSUs, nor are their prospects any worse than the xDSUs going forward. Murray State also out draws both xDSUs and Belmont is located in a major metro. Both schools are in significantly better recruiting territory than the xDSUs and they are closer to the bulk of the Valley schools.

Only UNI and Drake would be closer to Fargo than Nashville

[LakeJack]

Re: UMKC to the WAC?

When you consider that the Valley's current TV deal nets about $300k to each school, and that 75-80% of all conference revenue comes from the NCAA tournament*..........

What do SDSU & NDSU bring to the table?

This isn't like Nebraska to the Big Ten, where a school in a predominantly rural state paradoxically increased the marketability of the product on TV.

*http://www.foxsportsmidwest.com/page...blockID=831923

$300k Wow! That is less then a guarantee football game brings to a school. No school sells their soul for $300k. The NCAA tournament $$$ is about quality of programs not population demographics. So now go back and read my post and you can see what SDSU & NDSU might or might not bring to the table.


I say again certainly some of the MV schools care very much about football.

[zooropa]

Re: UMKC to the WAC?

So now go back and read my post and you can see what SDSU & NDSU might or might not bring to the table.

I say again certainly some of the MV schools care very much about football.

Inviting Belmont and Murray State would hardly constitute 'selling one's soul'; Belmont and Murray State are not research institutions, but neither are the majority of MVC schools, and both Murray State and Belmont have outstanding reputations as undergrad schools.

Neither school is a state flagship, but there are no state flagships in the MVC at present.

So, my question to you is, why would the MVC prefer schools farther away, with pedigrees that are not better than closer schools in athletics, which are not in better recruiting territory for any sport outside of, possibly, softball, volleyball and women's soccer?

On the basis of an existing relationship in the MVFC? If so, why? And if not, then why should the flagship status of the xDSUs trump every other argument that favors Murray State and Belmont?

And as far as football goes, the MVC schools already have the xDSUs in football.

[LakeJack]

Re: UMKC to the WAC?

You sell our institutions short.

Our academic pedigrees are better we are Flagships and why wouldn't the MVC Presidents want to associate with that? Remember Presidents cast the votes not ADs. I disagree that their basketball is better, I'm not sure they are even equal to us when you consider our higher ceiling. We have a much larger upside. Our football is much much better.

So we are better both academically and athletically we also already have relationships with many of the schools and league officials.

Hey but Belmont and Murray State have geography, and to be honest I am not sure that is true for Murray State. They are kinda hard to get to, sort of like WIU.

Again not saying we are going to get into the MVC but please don't dismiss out of hand the many things we bring to the table.

[witness]

Re: UMKC to the WAC?

Conferences care more about expanding their conference than keeping it close. Also, another thing that helps is SDSU's consistent ability to have academic all-american's and a very high team gpa. SDSU is also very very young into D1 and if they joined MVC, the Jacks will only get better recruits

[joeboo22]

Re: UMKC to the WAC?

School pedigree means little, yeah you don't want to be Chicago St. but if you have a good standing your fine. What matters is money, both what the schools bring in terms of money and how much the schools add to the expenses by adding a school. SDSU and NDSU do bring some, they are solid, name recognized to a point, solid facilities (once BSA gets renovated). But their budgets are eeh, their schedules have been eeh, and travel to the Dakota's is not cheap.

Again I'm not saying its not possible but there are a half a dozen schools that make just as much sense as SDSU and NDSU that the Valley can chose from, and the Valley isn't going to even think about expanding until Creighton leaves, which isn't a done deal by any means. And then even if they do I'm not sold they would expand.

And if I read correctly, the Catholic 7 won't split until after next year so I wouldn't expect Creighton's leave to be imminent

[FargoBison]

Re: UMKC to the WAC?

What is stopping the MVC from creating a super conference???? Just replace Creighton with the best of the other conferences...

North
NDSU-SDSU
UNI-Drake
Valpo-Milwaukee
ISUR-Bradley

South
ORU-WSU
Belmont-Murray State
Evansville-ISUB
MSU-SIU

This would also give the MVFC anywhere from 9 to 11 football playing members depending on what happens to USD/WIU.

[zooropa]

Re: UMKC to the WAC?

You sell our institutions short.

Our academic pedigrees are better we are Flagships and why wouldn't the MVC Presidents want to associate with that? Remember Presidents cast the votes not ADs. I disagree that their basketball is better, I'm not sure they are even equal to us when you consider our higher ceiling. We have a much larger upside. Our football is much much better.

So we are better both academically and athletically we also already have relationships with many of the schools and league officials.

Hey but Belmont and Murray State have geography, and to be honest I am not sure that is true for Murray State. They are kinda hard to get to, sort of like WIU.

Again not saying we are going to get into the MVC but please don't dismiss out of hand the many things we bring to the table.

I'm not selling the xDSUs short.

Consider:

- Why wouldn't the MVC presidents want to be associated with flagship universities? Because those flagship universities don't bring national reputations to the table.

- "Ceiling" and "upside" are incredibly vague terms. You'll have to provide some logical basis as to why the xDSUs have a higher ceiling.

- Football is irrelevant. The MVC's football schools already have the xDSUs.

- So what if Murray State is 'hard to get to': When you're taking a bus there, miles are miles. You pay the same fees whether you're taking the freeway or Township Road 3248A.

I'm not dismissing the xDSUs "out of hand", I'm considering the advantages as either being irrelevant (academics, football) or purely speculative ('upside')--and offset against obvious disadvantages.